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Author
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Topic: Tapered steel bars by Frank Ford
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 20 August 2006 01:44 PM
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Gryphon Stringed Instruments in Palo Alto, CA (one of my favorite guitar shops) is now selling tapered steel bars. Here's how they're made.Time for a road trip!
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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Mark Eaton
Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA
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posted 20 August 2006 02:35 PM
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A really nice looking bar. I am not familiar with the design, Brad, but you seem to be hip to it. Can you enlighten us to some of its features and benefits? ------------------
Mark
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 20 August 2006 02:47 PM
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These used to be made by Chase Manufacturing many years ago. I had one of these bars and found it very useful when doing single string work. The tapered end of the bar made it easier to just play one string rather than accidentally hitting another as you play. |
Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 20 August 2006 03:00 PM
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I have a Chase bar that came with my Stringmaster. It is has a chrome finish that's worn away in a couple spots, and the bottom is black with the words "Chase" and "PAT PEND" embossed on it. Send me an email if you have something interesting you'd like to trade for it... |
Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 20 August 2006 03:23 PM
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Thanks Brad-- I've been looking for a 3" tapered bar...this one sort of fills the gap in size between the 2 tapered Black Phoenixes. Don't know of any others currently being made.--Steve |
Gary Boyett
Member From: Colorado
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posted 20 August 2006 04:54 PM
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I have an old Chase bar in perfect condition. (case candy form a fender) It is a little light for me but fun to play with.I will probably order one for my collection.
They look real nice. ------------------
HSGA & RMSGC member
Play it with "Glass"
Boyett's Glass Bars
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Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 23 August 2006 10:55 AM
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I just spoke with the guy who made these bars, Frank Ford at Gryphon Stringed Instruments. The bar is stainless steel and 3.1" long, weighs 5.4 oz., and tapers from about 13/16" down to 5/8".Brad, if you get one of these, how about a user review? --Steve |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 23 August 2006 05:26 PM
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My favorite bar for playing lap steel is a tapered bar. I also have a couple of the old Chase bars but the chrome on them also wanted to pit. I did pick up a nice tapered stainless bar off of someone on the Forum some time ago, though. It is approx. 3 1/4" long and tapers from 3/4" to 5/8". A very nice bar. And it sure didn't cost what this guy is asking!  |
Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 23 August 2006 09:44 PM
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I gotta say, the Chase bar I have is the worst bar I have ever used. Just my $.02, YMMV... |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 23 August 2006 10:32 PM
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quote:
Brad, if you get one of these, how about a user review?
I don't plan on purchasing one of these any time soon. I have plenty of good steel tone bars already. If someone were to give me one for reviewing, I'd be happy to do so. ------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 24 August 2006 04:07 AM
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quote:
I gotta say, the Chase bar I have is the worst bar I have ever used.
When Bobby Ingano was here ... he mentioned that Feet Rogers used a chromed tapered bar ... I took out my Chase and said ... "like this one". I asked if he had one ... he said no ... but always wanted one ... So I gave him mine ... ------------------
Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 24 August 2006 at 04:58 AM.]
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Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 05:22 AM
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Hmm...it may be time to revisit the Chase...  |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 06:55 AM
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Bill,
Maybe it's the operator!  |
Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 11:28 AM
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That's cool, Brad-- I read the comment "Time for a road trip!" and thought you might be picking one up.I wish I'd thought to ask him who made the bar he was duplicating. It's supposed to be a repro of "the classic tapered Hawaiian guitar steel popular in the 1930s", but 3.1" seems on the long side for a 6-stringer. Bill, is your Chase bar the same dimensions as the one Frank Ford is turning out now? --Steve |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 24 August 2006 03:04 PM
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My old Chase was over 3" ... very light-weight too ...------------------
Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
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Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 03:13 PM
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I don't have it with me at present but I know is it very light, much lighter than the Dunlop Jerry Byrd 919 bar for instance. -Bill PS Erv - thanks for the vote of confidence!
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Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 06:18 PM
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Checked out my Chase. It's about 3 1/8" long, 3.3 ounces. |
Mike Neer
Member From: NJ
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posted 24 August 2006 06:32 PM
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Tapered bars are cool and actually fun to use, but (and this is a big but) it is very difficult to play slants in tune, especially if you frequently use a regular bullet bar (in my experience).------------------
www.mikeneer.com Mike Neer on MySpace [This message was edited by Mike Neer on 24 August 2006 at 06:33 PM.]
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Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 10:53 PM
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May I ask a stupid question:WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A TAPERED STEEL BAR? Thanking you in advance for a response. Aloha, 
Don |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 25 August 2006 03:51 AM
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quote:
it is very difficult to play slants in tune
That's what I imagined... I would think split slants in particular would be difficult with a tapered bar? Steinar ------------------
"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 25 August 2006 03:54 AM
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Now this ... this is a tapered bar  ------------------
Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
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Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 25 August 2006 11:41 AM
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For me the tapered bars give a feeling of greater precision & control, esp. for playing single-note lines-- kind of like "writing" the notes. They tend to be lighter, so between that and the narrower nose they give the impression of being able to get around with more speed & accuracy. I think this is true to an extent. It's definitely true that, with a touch of arthritis in my hands, I'll get through a two-hour practice session more comfortably if I'm using my tapered bar.
And yes, the split-string slants are tougher to play in tune due to the skinnier nose-- so you get to work more on your slant vibrato. Based on what Bill and Rick say, I guess this new bar is probably modeled on the Chase-- but somehow they've managed to add a couple ounces!(?) If that's true it would be a plus in the tone department... |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 25 August 2006 01:10 PM
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quote:
but somehow they've managed to add a couple ounces!(?)
My Chase bar was hollow ... I would have filled it with lead ... like I did the semi-hollow Dunlops ... But it was way too long for me, personally ... so I didn't bother. Why tapered ... When I got my first 2 3/4" long Tapered Red Rajah from Chuck B. ... I reported here: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/002362.html I ultimately went back to the regular bullet ... for slanting reasons. Of course ... all before I went "Flat" Bar that is ... ------------------
Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 25 August 2006 at 01:22 PM.] |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 25 August 2006 01:45 PM
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The tapered bar is really made for lap steel. Not for a guitar on legs. When you hold a guitar on your lap there is more of an angle to deal with. With a tapered bar you help decrease the angle. I have not encountered any problem with slants. The portion of the bar that contacts the strings is still straight so what's the big deal? |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 25 August 2006 01:58 PM
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quote:
The portion of the bar that contacts the strings is still straight so what's the big deal?
In my opinion ... two things: 1) As Mike N. mentioned ... to properly "stop" the strings in a "split slant" maneuver ... a 5/8" tip doesn't span the distance between the two strings as easily on the steel guitars I prefer to play (with six string frypan/bakelite string spacing) ... hence my affection for a 3/4" diameter ... 2) I'm a "finger" slanter and use the arched index technique ... Therefore to execute a forward slant, I have to exagerate the "hump" produced ... as I push the butt end with my thumb ... up under my fingers ... Because my index "tip" is physically lower on a tapered bar. Also, that little "sweet spot" ... where my arched index tip contacts the bar and acts as the pivot point is smaller (less "fudgin' room"). That's my opinion / experience anyway ... for what it is worth. ------------------
Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 25 August 2006 at 02:27 PM.] |
Mylos Sonka
Member From: Larkspur CA USA
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posted 28 August 2006 09:39 AM
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I have Vance Terry's tapered bar. It is in every respect similar to the Chase tapered bar except it does not have the black Chase logo at the end, and the snap-button case is made of felt-lined canvas instead of the plastic used in the Chase bar case. Design-wise both bars and cases are identical, so I think Vance probably got a prototype or early model.The chrome plating is worn off the nose. Vance considered a tapered bar to be faster and more suited to single-note lines because it's light at the end while the majority of the mass is toward the wrist/pivot. The extra mass at the back adds to sustain. Most of the time Vance used a bigger bar, but he was fond of the tapered bar and used it frequently enough to wear a big hole in the plating. Mylos Sonka [This message was edited by Mylos Sonka on 28 August 2006 at 09:40 AM.] |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 29 August 2006 07:43 PM
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Was just at Gryphon today and had a chance to try out and inspect the goods. It's good, really good!A friend actually bought one as I talked with Frank Ford about the bars. They are extremely nice, excellent work and workmanship. But, then, that's par for the course at Gryphon! ZBest,
LC |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 13 September 2006 09:58 AM
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I went to Gryphon today to sign up for the Stacy Phillips Dobro® workshop previously mentioned. While there, I tried out one of the tapered steel bars on a Regal RD-52 Black Lightning and a Beard resonator guitar.
These bars are much heavier than the original Chase bar and feel very solid in the hand. I felt like it fit my hand very well, and it was very easy to play single string notes with the bar.
I may have to add another bar to my collection!------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 13 September 2006 12:16 PM
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Larry and Brad, thanks for the hands-on reports. If there's a 10-stringer in my future, I'll definitely give this bar a try.--Steve |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 13 September 2006 12:54 PM
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If by "ten stringer" you mean a pedal steel (or even a ten string non-pedal steel), I'd seriously recommend you try before you buy. This seems like a good bar for six string steel, but it might be too short for most people's tastes when playing eight or ten strings.------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Robbie Daniels
Member From: Casper, Wyoming, USA
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posted 15 September 2006 12:35 PM
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I ordered one of Frank Ford's bars and I have had it for about three weeks. It is an excellent bar and the tapering lets me play better for single note application. Takes me back to the late forties and fifties when I used to use a tapered bar exclusivley. I use the tapered bar when I play my D8 Rickenbacker, but if the number I am playing will require a number of slants, I use the none tapered bar. ------------------
Carter D12, MSA D12, MSA S12, 1956 Rickenbacker D8, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200 |
Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 16 September 2006 02:52 PM
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Brad, this 3.1" bar we're talking about...for me it would be too much bar for 6 strings, and maybe for 8 also. Harder to handle for slants without giving much advantage in return. My 2 7/8" bar seems enough to attempt anything I want to do on 8 strings, except a 4-note maj7 forward slant on the lower frets, which is damn hard to play in tune with any bar. It will easily span 7 strings on every steel I've got (and usually 8, even though I don't need it to).As far as being useable for 10 strings, I agree that most pedal players would want something longer and heavier than the Ford bar. I'm a nonpedal player and would use a 10-stringer not to achieve grips that spanned 9 or 10 strings, but to gain harmonic variety with chords that usually could be played with grips that would span no more than 7 strings, and usually less. I look at the Ford bar as being able to span 8 strings in most cases. I know from experience that a "standard" 10-string bar would mess with my arthritic hands. The Ford bar seems a likely alternative. "Try before you buy" is always good advice, though. --Steve
[This message was edited by Stephan Miller on 16 September 2006 at 03:28 PM.] |
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