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Author	Topic: Flat Wound Strings
Kris Oka Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA	posted 05 October 2006 02:39 PM profile send email edit Does anyone use flat wound strings on their lap steel? I purchase a used Rick last year and it came with these strings and I couldn't figure out why it was so easy to play. How do you buy these strings?
Patrick Newbery Member From: San Francisco, California, USA	posted 05 October 2006 03:21 PM profile send email edit I just bought a set to try out. I had noticed that the regular round strings were chewing up my black rajah bar, and that my other bars tended to wear the windings flat on one side...so the obvious conclusion was to try flat wounds. You can get them at most regular guitar stores (I got mine at Starving Musician in berkeley).
James Mayer Member From: Oregon, USA	posted 05 October 2006 03:44 PM profile send email edit I remember talking to a steel player after a show and he said that flat-wounds had much less sustain than round-wounds. So, I've never tried them.
Mike Ruffin Member From: El Paso, Texas, USA	posted 05 October 2006 04:19 PM profile send email edit I believe there was a discussion about this recently. SIT makes semi-flat strings that are pretty quiet and sound good.
Ron Whitfield Member From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA	posted 05 October 2006 05:05 PM profile send email edit I have flats on every Hawaiian/Spanish guitar I own and love the tone/sound and am wary of trying semi flats/ground wounds, even tho most players I know use them and sound great. Only a couple of stores on Oahu carry them now days. Can't imagine using wounds on steel. Good luck, Kris! [This message was edited by Ron Whitfield on 05 October 2006 at 05:05 PM.]
Brad Bechtel Moderator From: San Francisco, CA	posted 05 October 2006 05:06 PM profile send email edit I've used flat wound strings before, but I don't care for them. They certainly do cut down on the amount of extraneous string noise, but the tradeoff is a "duller" tone than you'd get from regular strings. ------------------ Brad's Page of Steel A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars
Darryl Hattenhauer Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA	posted 05 October 2006 06:46 PM profile send email edit Never played them on a lap, but I love flats on a starchtop for jazz, and you can get some weird effects on solid bodies. The best place I've found for buying strings is juststrings.com. Widest selection and lowest prices. ------------------ "And if we obey God, we must disobey ourselves." --Father Mapple
Kris Oka Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA	posted 05 October 2006 09:18 PM profile send email edit Thanks all for your help. I guess you can buy flat wound strings in the same gauges for C6 tuning.
Don Kona Woods Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA	posted 05 October 2006 10:24 PM profile send email edit For Hawaiian music flat wound is the only way to go. IMHO Flat wounds may give you a more subdued sound than the wound strings, but you need it for smoothness and eliminating "gritty" string sound. Sustain is dependent on the steel as well as the strings. On my D-8 Excel, there is plenty of sustain with the flat wound strings. Aloha, Don
Rick Aiello Member From: Berryville, VA USA	posted 06 October 2006 05:30 AM profile send email edit I use flatwounds on all my steels .. acoustic or electric. Always have ... I like D'Addario Electric Chromes ... They are available in just about any gauge ... as single strings ... at www.juststrings.com ------------------ Dustpans LTD. The Casteels HSGA
Gerald Ross Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA	posted 06 October 2006 05:49 AM profile send email edit I used SIT flat wounds for about five years until this past spring when I tried D'Addario Electric Chromes at Rick Aiello's Steel Guitar Summit. The D'Addario's are all I use now. You have to assemble the sets individually at JustStrings.com and each set costs about $7 but what-the-hell, steel guitar strings last forever and the $2 or more a set really doesn't matter over time. ------------------ Gerald Ross 'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar' CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
James Mayer Member From: Oregon, USA	posted 06 October 2006 07:23 AM profile send email edit I went to juststrings.com and I don't can't find any individual D'Addario Electric Chromes. Looks like they are already assembled as sets for $7.95
James Mayer Member From: Oregon, USA	posted 06 October 2006 07:28 AM profile send email edit Nevermind, I found them.
Keith Cordell Member From: Atlanta	posted 06 October 2006 07:37 AM profile send email edit http://www.juststrings.com/electricchromesdaddarioguitarsinglestrings.html
Gerald Ross Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA	posted 06 October 2006 07:37 AM profile send email edit I stand corrected. To assemble this set (C6 Electric) of D'Addario Chromes will be about $12. Still worth it in my book. .16 (plain, any generic plain metal string) .18 (plain, any generic plain metal string) .24 Chromes .26 Chromes .30 Chromes .35 Chromes ------------------ Gerald Ross 'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar' CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association [This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 06 October 2006 at 07:38 AM.]
Gerald Ross Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA	posted 06 October 2006 07:41 AM profile send email edit These are interesting and a bit cheaper, and you are supporting a Michigan based company. http://www.juststrings.com/precisionflatwoundghsguitarsinglestrings.html http://www.juststrings.com/briteflatsghsguitarsinglestrings.html ------------------ Gerald Ross 'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar' CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
Rick Aiello Member From: Berryville, VA USA	posted 06 October 2006 07:54 AM profile send email edit They tend to backorder them on me ... cause I buy 5 of each gauge at a time (I gotta lotta steels) ... no biggie But I'm a six string player ... and use plains up thru the 4th ... so cost isn't an issue ... Since I use ... what I call the "Half Montee" ... ... buying "sets" isn't even considered ... Short Scale 0.017 E 0.018 C 0.020 A 0.022 G 0.032 E (Chromes) 0.038 C# (Chromes) Long Scale (25.5") 0.016 E 0.017 C 0.018 A 0.020 G 0.030 E (Chromes) 0.036 C# (Chromes) I change them Chromes ... once a year .... whether they need it or not. ------------------ Dustpans LTD. The Casteels HSGA [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 06 October 2006 at 07:59 AM.]
Mike Neer Member From: NJ	posted 06 October 2006 07:57 AM profile send email edit On my electric steels (or should I say steel?), I use SIT Power Flats: http://www.juststrings.com/powerflatsitguitarsinglestrings.html On my electric guitars, I most often use D'Addario Chromes and have for about 10 years. ------------------ www.mikeneer.com Mike Neer on MySpace
Kris Oka Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA	posted 06 October 2006 08:12 PM profile send email edit Opps, I jumped the gun and ordered D'Aquisto Stainless Steel Flats from juststrings.com. Now I'll have to go back and put a set of D'Addario Chromes together. Is there a material difference between Stainless Steel and Chrome strings? Huh?
basilh Member From: United Kingdom	posted 07 October 2006 02:02 AM profile send email edit I find this thread most interesting Whilst I was in Ireland It was like living in a wilderness that had only a handful of music shops, strings were at a premium and mail order from the 'States' was not really a runner, so we had to make do with whatever WAS available locally. I say locally jokingly because most of the music shops that stocked gauged strings like Ernie Ball nickel round-wound, were 50 or so miles away at the very least. I've never wanted to change from the 'Normal' and consider the "Extraneous Noise" issue to be down to bad technique. My heroes in the Hawaiian steel guitar world never had the 'luxury' of semi or flat-wound strings, and yet still sound good to me. Jules, Barney, Billy and those of the late Hawaii Calls era definitely HAD the opportunity to use tape-wound strings but didn't. Earlier players like Sol, Andy Eddie Bush et al. only had the round-wound, and not even varied gauges, just mainly plec. Gt. sets or sets of given tunings for electric steel. What did Jerry Byrd use ? What does Buddy Emmons use ? I think that their choice (were I beginning again) would be my yardstick. But pay no attention to me I'm only a Grumpy old fart who'd argue just for the fun of it ! ------------------
Rick Aiello Member From: Berryville, VA USA	posted 07 October 2006 04:31 AM profile send email edit quote: What did Jerry Byrd use ? Flatwounds ... he's the one who initially recommended them to me. He described their tone as "haunting" ... quote: Earlier players like Sol, Andy Eddie Bush et al. only had the round-wound, and not even varied gauges, just mainly plec. Gt. sets or sets of given tunings for electric steel. I've read that Andy Iona used piano wire for all his strings ... plain (unwound) piano wire. quote: I've never wanted to change from the 'Normal' and consider the "Extraneous Noise" issue to be down to bad technique. Well, if you enjoy little to no vibrato ... or use a rolling style vibrato ... then there isn't much problem with rounds. But some of us like the old style vibrato ... Hal Smith and I talked alot about that very topic at Joliet '04 ... and he said that the bakelite bars are his favorite for that very reason. I noticed Dirk Vogel also used a plastic bar ... because of his liberal use of vibrato (I loved it). Many players opted for bakelite/plastic bars to deal with "string scraping" ... ie the Black Rajah ... I personal use a bar that "pre-dates" those ... new-fangled bullet ones ... and choose flatwounds to help cut down on scraping ... which occurs when I apply my wide vibrato. quote: argue just for the fun of it I hate to argue ... find no amusement in it what so ever. Strings, bars, etc are tools ... just tools. I hear that some folks even use tools ... like pedals ... to change tunings during a song. I hear some folks use "reverb" ... I hear some people use 8 strings ... even up to 12 sometimes. For me ... 6 strings, no pedals, no reverb and a flat bar is "just right" ... But if tools like extra strings, bullet bars, reverb, etc ... works for someone ... Who am I to judge ... or belittle. ------------------ Dustpans LTD. The Casteels HSGA [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 07 October 2006 at 05:23 AM.]
Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA	posted 07 October 2006 05:32 AM profile send email edit I have semi-flat SIT's on my lap steel. Like them a lot.
Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA	posted 07 October 2006 07:51 AM profile send email edit . [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 07 October 2006 at 09:02 AM.]
Bill Creller Member From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA	posted 07 October 2006 01:49 PM profile send email edit I'm with Charlie,I'm using SIT semi-flats. Bobby Ingano put me onto them a couple of years ago, although he uses GHS brand which are available in Honolulu.
Kris Oka Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA	posted 07 October 2006 09:00 PM profile send email edit Does anyone know the difference bwtween stainless steel flat wound and Electric chromes? Chrome, as in chrome plated strings?
Don Kona Woods Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA	posted 07 October 2006 10:21 PM profile send email edit Just as square-ridged Ping golf clubs eat up golf balls, wound strings eat up plastic steel guitar bars. This analogy is for steel guitar players who are golfers. Aloha, Don
Rick Aiello Member From: Berryville, VA USA	posted 08 October 2006 04:48 AM profile send email edit Kris ... Chromes description They do have a more "slippery" feel than the other flats I've tried. ... The most expensive I've tried were the Thomastik-Infeld ... the least expensive being the Fenders (Just Strings quit carring their singles) ... I've never tried the D'Aquisto though ... Personally, I've always gone back to the Chromes ... for whatever thats worth. ------------------ Dustpans LTD. The Casteels HSGA [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 08 October 2006 at 05:01 AM.]
Jaime Miller Member From: Dallas, Texas, USA	posted 08 October 2006 06:41 AM profile send email edit I was under the impression round-wound strings were not even widely available until 1967 or so. Steel flats were the main strings even on acoustics. Am I off base on this? Jaime
Kris Oka Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA	posted 08 October 2006 08:27 AM profile send email edit Thanks, Rick. Chromes are the world's most popular flatwound strings and revered for their warm tone and ultra-smooth feel. Stainless steel underwindings on hex cores build a foundation for the delicate outer ribbon winding. After the winding is applied, each string goes through 3 polishing steps.
Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA	posted 08 October 2006 08:29 AM profile send email edit Jaime - you're correct. Flatwounds were widely used until the mid-60's. I think roundwounds were available, but not used much. We used all flats in surf music - I think it was '66 or '67 when I got roundwounds for the first time. I actually went back to Flats on my Teles a few years ago, varying between Flatwounds and Fender 150 nickel roundwounds. The D'Addario Chromes are great flats - I hate stainless roundwounds, but in flatwunds they pick up a litttle brightness that would otherwise be lost. But on my Dobro, I use roundwounds, Tried flats once and couldn't get any tone at all. Same with steels - tried flats on my Ric but it just dosn't work. Weird that I liked them on 6-string but not on steels!
Bill Creller Member From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA	posted 08 October 2006 10:51 AM profile send email edit Funny you guys should mention that round wounds were not around until the 60s. When I was a young guy in the 1940s, round wound strings were what we used. The flat wounds in those days seemed dull, with less sustain.
Gil Berry Member From: Westminster, CA, USA	posted 08 October 2006 01:48 PM profile send email edit When I was about 9 or 10...gads, that a LONG time ago....my hawaiian guitar teacher, Mr. Russ Waters in Flint, Michigan, had all his students play with flatwounds. He said the regular wound strings made too much string noise when you slid the bar. So I've never questioned it. Besides, we played with a lead-filled plastic bar in those days - is that the same as the Rajah? - and the regular wound strings would chew them up. Mr. Waters knew his steel guitar. Don't judge by me - he was Terry Bethel's teacher, too.
Mark Tomlinson Member From: Seattle, Washington, USA	posted 08 October 2006 05:04 PM profile send email edit So I just put a pair of SIT C6th strings on my Fender D-8 (.015, .018p, .022p, .024SF, .030SF, .036SF, .042SF, 054SF). Now I notice a little buzz on the 4th string (.024SF) which is the first of the flat strings. It is visibly lower than the 3rd and 5th strings, so I can understand the contact being weak with the bar. Is this normal? Do you guys compensate for this on the nut, or bridge, or could I put a pain steel .024p in it's place? or another .022p there to match the 3rd string. Or does my guitar need a little repair/fix-up? Thanks, Mark ------------------ -- Mark Tomlinson mark@careytomlinson.org www.careytomlinson.org
Don Kona Woods Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA	posted 08 October 2006 05:56 PM profile send email edit quote: Do you guys compensate for this on the nut, or bridge, or could I put a plain steel .024p in it's place? Mark, I use only plain steel up to 5th string, and generally .024 gauge on the 4th string. Aloha, Don
Lynn Oliver Member From: Redmond, Washington, USA	posted 08 October 2006 11:47 PM profile send email edit What gauges were you using before you installed the SIT set?
Craig Stenseth Member From: Naperville, Illinois, USA	posted 09 October 2006 08:11 PM profile send email edit I put together a set of flats from juststrings.com, I noticed they have a little more friction than the roundwounds. I guess this is because the flat string has more area contacting the bar, vs. roundwounds. Kind of the opposite of what happens when fretting with fingers (where the flats seems more slippery).
Mitch Druckman Member From: Arizona, USA	posted 09 October 2006 10:42 PM profile send email edit I like the idea of using a full set of unwound plain steel strings. JustStrings sells D'Addario plain steel strings up to size .026, and I think John Pearse makes a tool for putting your own ball ends on string wire, so you could make your own. Of course a solid .042 or larger might not wrap around a ball end very well. Has anyone tried this?
Todd Weger Member From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA	posted 13 October 2006 07:22 AM profile send email edit quote: I used SIT flat wounds for about five years until this past spring when I tried D'Addario Electric Chromes at Rick Aiello's Steel Guitar Summit. The D'Addario's are all I use now. You have to assemble the sets individually at JustStrings.com and each set costs about $7 but what-the-hell, steel guitar strings last forever and the $2 or more a set really doesn't matter over time. Hmmmmmm... these sound most intriguing! I've been using the SIT semi-flats, and have enjoyed them a lot, but I use the Chrome Flats on my Fender Jazz bass for more of that 'old-school' bass tone, and now I think really need to try these Chromes on my Epiphone lap steel. Gotta feeling I'm going to like 'em. Thanks for the tip, gents! ------------------ Todd James Weger -- 1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass
Bill Hatcher Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA	posted 13 October 2006 09:15 AM profile send email edit Mitch. Your idea about large guage unwound wire might just work on a guitar with a keyless headstock. You would not need to try to wrap the string around the machine head post.
Dan Sawyer Member From: Studio City, California, USA	posted 14 October 2006 12:54 PM profile edit Someone mentioned surf music, but did you know all the early Beatles records were recorded using flat wound strings? (I believe they were made by a company called Pyramid in England.) It would be interesting to know when flat wound strings were introduced. I would be surprised if they were available before WW2. One thing about flat wound strings is they last longer than round wound. This is probably because the flat covering keeps dirt and oils away from the core. Also, stainless steel and chrome are much more durable than nickle.

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