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Author
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Topic: Floor pedal noise
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Bill Miller
Member From: Gaspé, Québec, Canada
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posted 21 November 2003 11:17 AM
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I've never had an opportunity to sit down at any steel guitar other than the ancient Sho-Bud I own ('68 or '69 all pedal model). I've often wondered how much pedal noise is normal? Mine makes a heck of a racket, particularly if I'm playing a faster piece and sort of punching the pedals. It isn't quite so noticeable if I'm squeezing them down on slower stuff. The clatter is produced by both the small amount of play bewteen the pedal rods and the crank levers and the crank levers bottoming out on the guitar body. Somehow I suspect that the newer steels must be quieter. Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 21 November 2003 11:54 AM
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When I use my Professional for recording (and I completely modernized the mechanics) it's still a clunky sounding guitar, so I have to really pay attention to how I press and release things. Much different than playing live. |
Dave Van Allen
Member From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
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posted 21 November 2003 12:03 PM
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modern guitars are generally much better in that regard.but there is something I dig about hearing the mechanics activated as well as the notes- I love listening with headphones to the solo on "Slowly" and hearing the clunk of the mechanism captured for posterity...call me crazy, but I think sometimes it is cool.[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 21 November 2003 at 12:04 PM.] |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 22 November 2003 11:38 AM
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I have an "ancient" ´69 ShoBud Professional too and it doesn´t seem that noisy to me; sure there is some, but not so much that it ever bothers me, I guess if the mechanics are adjusted, cleaned and lubed well, that helps a lot. A little noise is just part of life with them old Buds. I wonder, is your question about the noise itself or how much of it comes through the amp by way of the pickups? If that is the case, it looks like the problem is about "microphonic" pickups. I have them on my other guitar (Pro-II)and in fact the amount of pedal noise that comes through is quite obnoxious. As soon as I have some money left, I´ll change them to Bill Lawrence 910, that should take care of it.Regards, Joe H.[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 22 November 2003 at 11:46 AM.] |
Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 22 November 2003 11:56 AM
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From 1975 to 1980 I played a mid 60s Sho-Bud Professional and if you picked it up and shook it,it sounded like a bucket of knee levers. I don't know if I ever learned to finesse the pedals or if I finally just quit worrying about it - probably a little of both.Having an old Bud like that is just like having a old 66 Mustang - it's always gonna be old and clunky - but kinda cool. |
Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 22 November 2003 12:39 PM
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I wonder if putting the changer on the left side of the guitar, away from the pickup, would help. |
Bill Miller
Member From: Gaspé, Québec, Canada
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posted 22 November 2003 01:37 PM
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Joe said : "If that is the case, it looks like the problem is about "microphonic" pickups."Well no, a microphonic pick-up was part of the problem at one time alright, but I took the original out and installed a George L's 10-1. What I'm referring to is the clatter of steel engaging on steel in the undercarriage and from the pedals themselves. As far as adjustments, it's adjusted and lubed according to the best information I could find on the subject. I guess it's just the nature of the beast. |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 23 November 2003 10:44 AM
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Joe; your rack and barrel Shobud I set up is the quietest I've ever heard, because I set it up for myself..ah..ha..
Bill there are several things you can do to make the mechanics ALOT less noisy; but it requires a playability that you may or may not like.
I personally don't mind and actually like a short travel on pedals and knee levers.
That's what it will take to get any slack out of the pedal rod enguaging the rack as those barrels should be touching the rack before it's even pulled.....so that will get rid of the slack and that paticular noise.
For the crank hitting the stop for the pedals...>you can put those little rubber switch ends on the stop screw....>these are the small rubber cylindar thingys that go on a switch...ah..ha.
And a small piece of thin felt that sticks on one side; under the metal crank on the wood where it rest..
Those techniques will make your professional much quieter and you'll be used to how it plays in no time.
Also if you use the proper string guages that I lined out in my Jagwire string artist series sets; you'll find the strings will pull more evenly and they are designed for the 24" scale; so they are a little heavier than what comes in a standard E9 pack...so you'll also find the pulls won't be as short as you think with getting any and all slack out.
Have fun.
Ricky |
Bill Miller
Member From: Gaspé, Québec, Canada
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posted 23 November 2003 12:15 PM
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Well now, that's food for thought. Thanks Ricky! I was going by the theory that you were supposed to leave a small amount of play between the barrel and rack....I saw that somewhere on one of the various online resources. But I know you restore and set up these old Sho-Buds all the time and I trust your judgement so I'm going to do some surgery on mine. As for those little rubber disks that the crank levers bottom out on...I'm missing one of those. I looked at the local hardware stores for something that I could modify to replace it but I couldn't find anything the right size and thickness. I must get onto that again...there's got to be something I can use. |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 23 November 2003 01:06 PM
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Hey Cool Bill.
Yes I do not agree with "Slack" in an all pull mechanism....as that creates tuning problems In my opinion.
The only reason slack may be there or wanted...is if you can't adjust the knee levers out and therefore your knee is resting on the lever or you are someone that likes to rest your foot on the pedals.
Especially on the barrel tuners...if they slap into the rack over and over, because of slack and the unleash when you dis-engauge...well that has tuning problem written all over it....ah..ha.
Go to a Hobby store and you'll find some little sticky felt....or a hardware store in the door and cabinet hardware section.
Ricky |
Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
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posted 23 November 2003 05:10 PM
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I always loved my Sho-Bud, and the mechanical "sound" coming from the rods always affected me just like the mechanical sound coming from my 65 Panhead....To some it was "noise", but to me it was "soul".I finally replaced both the Sho-Bud and the Harley because I finally tired of the continual maintenance required to keep both of them working optimally. I guess I got lazy (or old) and I just wanted something that would "work" when I needed it without a lot of maintenance.
www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 23 November 2003 at 05:11 PM.] |
Ron Sodos
Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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posted 26 November 2003 02:00 PM
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I have played 2 different shobuds since late 1070's. Never thought much about the noise except in the studio where it can be a problem if you mike. I just bought a 2 year old Zumsteel. No noise at all! Its as quiet as can be. I'm really impressed with Bruce's engineering.  |
Ron Sodos
Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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posted 26 November 2003 02:01 PM
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Sorry for the typo I haven't been playing steel for a thousand years only the 1970's |
Bob Hamilton
Member From: Atascadero, California, USA
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posted 26 November 2003 02:28 PM
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Ricky and Bill, for replacing the rubber disks where the pedals bottom out against the body, try taking a regular inner tube (thickness to taste), and punching out little disks with a standard paper punch. Worked great on my Professional when I rebuilt it. And another tip, when the springs in the barrels get worn to the point that they need replacing, take them apart and turn down the portion of the barrel with the hole in it (with a standard drill press) until you get more spring protruding. There's plenty of material there, and you can get twice the mileage on those barrels before they need to be replaced. Worked great for me..... |
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