posted 19 March 2001 08:58 AM         

quote:

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It simply is in no way related to a modern pedal steel and those who expect them to play like a brand new Zumsteel/Franklin/Carter/etc. will be in for a severe disappointment!

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posted 19 March 2001 05:38 PM         

I sure hope you don't think that I was being negative or in any way deriding collecting, or Bigsby's or any of that.

I also have many guitars, 15 to be exact. Some quite pricey. I also have several amps, etc.

I guess it's obvious that Bigsby's are a collectors piece 'cause of their tone, not to metion their beautiful looks, duh.

Paul, Herb, or any other Bigsbyites: do you ever take 'em out to gig. Do they go out of tune that much? They were state of the art at one time though, right? The original player's must have been able to keep 'em in tune good enough.

I don't know anything about 'em. Was the Bigsby heyday mainly before pedals, or were an equal amount sold with pedals?

Did Mr. Bigsby faze them out to concentrate on his vibrato tailpiece? Did he consider that more lucrative?

So what's an average price of a Bigsby in fair condition?

Again, I sure hope you don't think I was knockin' ya. And the "sport" anology was from a quote I heard, not my words.

I think paying big bucks for vintage guitars is fine. I've had my share of 'em. And I believe in making as much bucks as you can, and spend 'em on whatever floats yer boat. I got my eye on a non-cutaway, no pickup '47 Super 400 currently being restored. I hope when he sets his price that I can get it.

My post was poorly worded and not thought out. I'll smack myself now.

posted 19 March 2001 07:37 PM         

Herb Steiner, thanks for the post, you couldn't have worded it any better. It's a feel, look, style and vibe that helps with the collectable X-factor of any given product, or instrument.
I loved your post, and respect to Jody for sharing that Bigsby story with us.

posted 19 March 2001 08:44 PM         

Want to bring out a point here,,,for whatever reason I dont know,,,nothing to gain or lose just for conversation etc. I do value you and your opinions Paul and have much respect for your opinions..I knew Leo Fender very well,,,Leo was a smart man no question about that,,,he had something that Paul Bigsby didnt have,,,,and that was a Donald D. Randall behind him. Paul was a custom builder,,,Leo did it his way and mass produced and marketed his product with a "sparse" sales force at the time when Leo still had the radio parts business, I beleive when he saw Bigsbys guitar ,,,he took advantage of a good thing and saw a way to make it afforable as well as "just as good sounding if not better than the original Bigsby guitar by Paul. Think of it this way,,,,as i do,,,why didnt Paul patent his guitar? Leo liked the headstock and figured hey....I can do that,,,and he did,,,now heres the point,,,Bigsby was a custom guitar,,,probably took Paul a complete month to build a guitar Leo could do it in a matter of days,,,we are not drawing comparisons here,,,it is all a matter of taste and opinions,,,that is what is nice about the "Forum" I hope we are all friends sharing thought and ideas,,,there is nothing for me to gain,,,iam not on fenders payroll,,,heres how I sum it up.
You do know that most Bigsby players used either Standel or Fender amps,,okay Bob Crooks then owner of Standel built a fine amp it had more high end than anything i have ever heard,,,Bigsby had a great tone,,,much more mid-range than a fender steel guitar,,,the match between the Bigsby and Standel was a good match,,,what the Bigsby lacked with its mid range pretty sound ,,,the Standel amp compensated for that, I played through Joe Maphis's Standel amp working an off broadway show in NYC along with Flatt & Scruggs,,,I played my Fender Custom through the Standel it was so bright and trebly,,, I had no control over the tone,,,I think my guitar with that Standel made all the dogs within a 20 miles radius of the theatre "hearing impaired" Iam trying to draw a comparison here,,,,Bigsby had to have an amp to achieve the tone it deserved,,it had only two choices,,,Fender or Standel,,,it sounded better to me with the Standel only because it compensated for the "mid range" tone of the Bigsby.
Most Bigsby players used Fender that was another compromise,,,Fender had a high end at times too treble a sound I agree,,,but with mixing the guitar and amp as a whole it offered me an overall sound that was pleasing to me more so than the Bigsby.
How would Paul Bigsbys electric guitar compare with Leo's Telecaster or Stratocaster?? lets forget the workmanship in the Bigsby,,,,lets take the plank of wood and mount a pickup and play it through a fender amp,,,could Bigsbys guitar compete in that market ?? who knows its like apples and oranges,,,like asking me who is the better looking chick Leeza Gibbons or Jacqlyn Smith? man I think they are both knock outs...how about that for a comparison,,,I like that better than Bigsbys and Fenders.
Ill bet this could really start a great conversation piece Paul,,I would like guys like Michael Johnstone & Herb Steiner to get in on this,,,and lets not forget Bobbe Seymour. Its hard to say which is better, Leo saw the opportunity to mass produce something and was very fortunate in having Don Randall there,,, I firmly beleive without a doubt as good as leo's products were ,,,It was Don Randall who did the job for Fenders success story... D'Angelico guitars come to mind,,,,here was a great guitar custom made in NYC probably took John D'Angelico longer to build a guitar for Johnny Smith, Tal Farlow,Al Ciaola, Tony Mottola etc than for Paul Bigsby to build a steel for guys like us,,,his guitars today are selling anywhere from $10.000 up to app $45.000.00 thats a lot of guitar,,,but there are guys out there willing to pay that price.
The Bigsby had a great sound,,,I do remember how well Joaquins guitar always sounded,,cause he would sound great on anything,,,I have never heard him play a Fender,,,M J has Im sure,,,I do know this,,when Les Carrot Top Anderson played steel with Cooley,,,it was Cooley who asked Noel Boggs to play a Fender rather than the Bigsby as Spade Cooley felt that the Fender had more punch than the Bigsby,,,man this is a long e mail,,bOb will probably move this to the "miniseries" category,,,longer than gone with the wind,,,apples to apples to me there is no sound like a Fender Stringmaster guitar with its tonal variations with the individual pickup tone selectors and the right amp and that amp would be nothing else than a Fender set up as desired by the individual players ear,,,it had more of a scope of tone variations than a Bigsby,,,I would like for you to find my old Bigsby,,I dont think my Fenders would mind,,,,there is a place for both of them in my heart,,,the Fender may not do what the Bigsby can,,,but the Bigsby would find it more difficult to do what the Fender can do overall.Im outta here,,,,sorry it took so long,,, "Got Milk" ?its almost time for my "wheaties" PS Ill give you guys a rest and stay off here for a while,,,be well this should last me for a while.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 March 2001 at 08:51 PM.]

posted 20 March 2001 09:57 AM         

Of the Fender pedal guitars that I've had experience with, including several 400's, 1000's, 800's, and 2000's, my experience universally has been that the raises are really nice and easy but the lowers are SSSTTIIFFFFF, truly like driving an old truck and I'm not exaggerating either.

RE: Bigsby tone v. Fender tone. I have a T-8 Stringmaster and love it for that sound, just as I love the Bigsby for its sound and the Emmons for its own sound. BJ Cole visited the other day and we spent the afternoon listening to Joaquin and playing old steels, and after he left I kept on jamming. Here's the results: Bigsby through tube Standel = great tone; Stringmaster through tube Standel = great tone; Stringmaster through solid state Standel = great tone; Bigsby through solid state Standel = great tone.

Later that afternoon I gave a lesson to one of my students. The results: Emmons through Evans amp = great tone; Sho-Bud through Evans amp = great tone.

There's another thread on the Forum where once again I read the now totally tiresome argument of "tubes v. solid state." Again the zero-sum game, as if for one to sound "good," the other has to sound "bad." Makes me want to shake my head and deeply sigh, when I think of newbie steel players whose beliefs might be influenced by totally subjective opinions stated as fact. The two amp designs simply sound "different," and personal preference for one doesn't mean the other is "wrong" for all other players. Too many times I see players tying their egos to their equipment, rather than to their playing, IMO.

Yes, I have my personal preferences. These include old guitars for some applications, new guitars for others. Tube amps for some particular tones, solid state for others. There are many jobs requiring different tools, some are correct for one application and some are correct for others.

Jody, you're right on about the great Don Randall. A great guitar is only dead stuff in a warehouse until an entrepreneur brings it into the marketplace and makes it available for sale, and Leo had Don Randall to do the selling for him. The relationship was synergy, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Paul Bigsby was a custom builder, and probably would not have enjoyed someone like Don Randall on his ass all the time clamoring for more product to move.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

posted 20 March 2001 10:34 AM         

It's not the same, but it's close.

[This message was edited by chas smith on 20 March 2001 at 10:35 AM.]

posted 20 March 2001 11:00 AM         

Leo did the very same thing with Music Man,,,he was upset with the sales force for trying to keep select dealers for Music Man products,,,we felt that Music Man would have to be marketed by dealers who would take the time to promote Music man and not rely on the fact that leo was involved at all. Tom Walker Fenders first west coast rep worked for Don for years and had the same theory as Don re productivity etc,,,,because Music Man reps had the philosophy of having a minimum amount of dealers giving total support to Music Man was better than having a maximum amount of dealers giving a minimum amount of effort to the promoting of Music Man products,,when Leo dis-agreed to this it was a re-run of the same problem that existed between Leo and Don,,,,thus came G&L and then as leo had most of the finances invested in Music Man ,,,he more or less turned his back on Music Man and that is when the name and existing machinery etc was sold to Ernie Ball. I hope this califies the situation...Don Randall always thought much of any custom builder such as Paul Bigsby,,,but one cannot make a comparison between one guitar a month and no sales force and a sales force with a marketing concept that would be beneficial to the dealer buying the product as well as the consumer getting a fine product at an afforable price,,,,,That was always Don Randall's theory,,,and I supported him for his overall contribution,,,,to Fenders success,,,,bar none,,,,I could go on and on
but I think I have said more than enough,,,did anyone ever think it was Leo fender who orchestrated the names of the Instrumets and amps?? telecaster, stratocaster jazzmaster, etc etc,,,I used to call it the "aster" syndrome and Don Randall played all the names of the products into a symphony of now reffered to as "household" names Twin Super Dual Showman etc,,,very few left around that would "amen to this" but Speedy would support me 150% see ya Herb I found the Handle btw,,,,,Jody

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 20 March 2001 at 11:05 AM.]

posted 20 March 2001 01:37 PM         

MJ
As you well know, one of the things that amazed me during my conversations with Murph is that he was surprised that anyone my age would be interested in that stuff he recorded with Spade and Tex. He thought it was harmonically limited and wished he had a functioning pedal guitar is those days. We've had this conversation before but I'm repeating it for the benefit of the forum. I got my copy of "Murph" from Jerry Fessenden, BTW, and you've done a fantastic job on it. Thanks for all of us for your work and extending the legacy of JM.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

posted 20 March 2001 08:29 PM         

Your original comments remind me of the CBS takeover of Fender,,,man that was a scenario,, I was in the "hot seat" being the New York Rep,,,I was asked to take an office at CBS corporate headquarters on W 52nd St,,,I asked Randall Why me?? Don said they want to have someone to "bug" I had all those groups "blood sweat and tears ,,,Peanut Butter Conspiracy on my back for "freebies" but Randall very politley advised me how to say NO.

I was bombarded by A&R men at Columbia records, a division of CBS,,,what the hell did I need an office up there at "black rock for" I was a road sales rep,,,they gave me a secretary,,,who did the :filing etc for me,,,and when dealers like Mannys Music & Sam Ash would call me,,,they would say,,,hey big shot" what are you doing going the "corporate route"? I was able finally to convince the brass at CBS I was not accompolishing anything with that office so they let me free myself.

Here;s a story I should save for my "book someday" Don Randall asked me to go to Columbia recording studios with some equipment as Bob Dylan was doing a session & the brass at Columbia wanted Dylan to pose with a Fender guitar... To be on the safe side I brought the following.

A stratocaster,,,telecaster, Fender acoustic Kingman dreadnaught, Precision Bass Jazz bass
Twin reverb amp Super reverb amp,,, I had to lug all this gear to the studio at CBS,,, I asked my cousin who was working for the Fender service center at the time to help me carry the gear,,,

It was a raining rotten night cold etc,,, I arrived at the studio with my cousin Arthur he was a proffesional (hobby) photographer,,,I saw Dylan in living color and walked over to him and introduced myself...asked him which guitar he would like to pose with.

His answer was NONE,,,,I told him that CBS requested he take a picture with a fender for the upcoming catalogue,,,,he said quote,,,hey man (that was me) I dont prostitute myself for anyone,,,Im here to do a session and Iam not here to promote your guitars.

I stood with my mouth open,,,the A&R man walked over to me and saw I was in a state of shock,,,he said Jody,,,,let me handle this,,,he spoke with Dylan and got the same treatment,,,Dylans manager(forgot his name and glad I did) said to me and the A&R man Bob is under contract to record his material he is not here to do a promotion for Fender or anyone else.

There was a big meeting going on in the control room between Dylans manager and the A&R man Sol Rubinowitz,,,,all of a sudden in came Goddard Leiberson President of The Columbia group which consisted of Fender, Columbia records Gulbransen,Steinway & Leslie corporation,,,,he was under Paley & Stanton head guns at CBS overall,,,,,within minutes mr.Leiberson a class act said to me,,,Jody ,,,Mr Randall and I asked to have Bob pose with a Fender,,,he said what would you suggest,,, I waited and said,,,thats up to Mr. Dylan,,,I figured he would choose the Strat or Telecaster or more than likely the Fender Kingman dreadnaught,,,Dylan with an arrogant attitude picked up the Jazz Bass & said to me (hey you) that was me,,,hurry up and lets get this crap over with,,,he posed with the Jazz Bass,,,he had a smirk on his face when Arthur snapped the picture,,,it was a done deal,,,for years now people have asked me.....

How come Dylan is posing with a Jazz Bass?? my answer was .....he liked the neck better than the P.Bass,,,they would look at me like I was nuts,,,,that picture of Dylan is now in the Fender Museum out in Brea calif as well as in Scottsdale Arizona.

I should not bore all you guys with this stuff,,,but looking back ,,,it was a great time,,,CBS wanted to sell everyone a Fender guitar,,, I will tell another story regarding the "accountants" getting into the act with their BPI "buying power index" and how it affected Fender CBS,,,,that was the beginning of the "pressure" cooker,,, I had a pet name for CBS at the time I always said that CBS stood for "C onstant B ull

S ,,,you know the rest....gotta go again time to take the dogs out,,,,how about that a CBS Regional Manager (ex) having to walk the dogs and take a "pooper scooper with me,,hey where has my "dignity gone"???

If you would like more,,,just ask,,,if not thats ok too I get the "message" later,,Herb did I tell you i got the handle,,,now I need the "rivets" man my work is never done,,,,Aloha Oiy PS Bob Maickel was a CBS engineer at this time,,,Bob did the sound for all the major CBS networks shows,,,he was fully aware that his ole steel guitar buddy was going through all this ,,,he said to me one day at CBS,,,,Jody
Welcome to the Club as he had heard about the Dylan deal.....Sometime Ill tell you about my trip to Yankee Stadium doing a promo with a few of the star NY Yankee players,,,,thats another "winner" CBS owned the Yankees too,,,they should have given me the "bat boys gig" later.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 20 March 2001 at 08:36 PM.]

posted 21 March 2001 12:12 PM         

quote:

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I should not bore all you guys with this stuff,,,but looking back ,,,it was a great time,,

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Jody, you guys are our connection to our history, our linneage. At the 1990 convention, I was listening in while Speedy, Bud Isaacs, Ralph Mooney and Leonard Zinn were reminiscing on playing in LA in the '40s and '50s, I could have spent the weekend just listening to them. Mike and I got to hang out with Murph for a few years.

posted 21 March 2001 12:52 PM         

Like that tune Frank Sinatra sang "Thats Life" when I hear that I can relate that song to my life,,,and since Iam in the twilight of my years too,,, I figured I would maybe spread a little "sunshine" with these stories and give all you guys a chuckle or two,,,
I hope someone says "ENOUGH" when the time comes,,,I feel like a steel player who finds a chord and never stops playing it,,,,,Jody

Oh I left something out of that thread about Dylan,,,,if any of you see that photo,,,,you will notice ,,,he is posing with the Jazz Bass in the "left handed" position,,, I guess he was doing everything he could to make life difficult for me,,,,but he didnt succeed,,,I still got the picture,,,,I thought he needed a 'haircut' when that picture was taken,,,either that or he stuck his finger into a electrical wall outlet. If I knew where there was an outlet,,, I would have LED him to it....

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 21 March 2001 at 01:01 PM.]

posted 21 March 2001 02:22 PM         

However I remember it was not "snowing" at least outside,,,inside the studio there were a number of "snow jobs" taking place among the "suits" at Columbia records many chiefs and no indians ,,,that is ,,,,until the head Chief Goddard Lieberson,,,came on the scene,

Obviously a man with his stature,position, and class,,,was accustomed to dealing with "prima donna's ,,,Im sure Columbia records had bigger names on their label than Bob (Zimmerman) Dylan,,I can understand Dylans opposing to pose with something he didnt either like or consider playing,,,but CBS wanted everyone and his brother playing a Fender product.

You oughta hear about the Chick Corea Rhodes piano endorsement,,,ditto Joe Zawunol,,,thats a whole other story.

I think I will ask bOb if we should move this to another category,,,Paul Warnik started an interesting topic regarding Bigsby guitars,,,and it got taken "off track" obviously by me,,,I want to apologize to Paul,,,if I stepped on his lines here I had no intention of doing so. Paul if you see this ,,,accept my apologies please,I did not intend this to be the "story of my life" it was supposed to be about Bigsby guitars & it may be better if we get back to that subject....Sorry Paul
Copyright(c)2001 by Jody Carver "All Rights Reserved"

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 16 May 2001 at 03:54 PM.]

posted 21 March 2001 11:10 PM         

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kd...and the beat goes on...

posted 22 March 2001 07:08 AM         

Iain
I never knew Ry to be a steel player... when we were teenagers he was into acoustic blues and bottleneck styles a'la Blind Blake, Robert Johnson, Charley Patton, etc. He did play dobro, bluegrass style. Funny, when I heard Clarence White, I got deep into bluegrass; Ry, on the other hand, said "Clarence is gonna say all there is to say on bluegrass guitar," and so dropped the country stuff and went into blues full-tilt. Ultimately he teamed up with Taj and entered the realm of electric blues. I got into C&W, moved to TX and he and I only sporadically saw each other. So I was surprised when Paul W. told me he ordered one of the PA Reissues. I had to demo the guitar for him in Paul's hotel room since he really didn't know much about how to play it at all. That was in 1994, probably. I haven't heard his development on the horn lately, but I understand he found an awesome Cuban jazz guitarist who plays like Jimmy Bryant, and RC's next project is to do a West/Bryant kind of thing with this guy, only Cuban jazz. I don't doubt that he could develop rapidly into expertise on the instrument, given his innate talent with music of all types. Sounds like something definitely worth listening to, eh?

Yes, BJ Cole is a tremendous player, and a tremendous personality. He's another friend whom I've known for 25 years but only see every 3 or 4 years. But we try to make the most of each visit we have, get together and play music or listen to the greats.

One thing I find interesting about BJ is that he didn't get into steel through country music as did I, but instead got into country music through steel via Santo and Johnny. So country is not his main form of steel guitar expression, though it certainly is one of them. His newest album, which I have but have not yet listened to, is hip-hop! I will write a review next week for the benefit of the Forum, after I've listened to it. I will be biased in my opinions, though, so be forewarned!

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

posted 22 March 2001 09:27 AM         

I e mailed Paul Warnik and apologized to him for taking his great topic of Bigsby guitars out of context.

Paul e mailed me in a very proffesional mannner and asked me not to apologize,,,and that he too was enjoying some of these stories back in that time.

I also e mailed bOb and apologized to him for taking up valuable space which I felt was doing an "injustice" to the original topic Paul posted,,,bOb asked me to take that issue up with Paul and I did,,,so I will continue a few more stories of my "life & times" with Leo Fender & Don Randall both who I have had the utmost respect and love for all of my life.

I will have to get to this other story a bit later on,,,I do have to go to the store & take my puppies out,,,but I promise to tell you a story you will all enjoy,

Be back with ya'll tonight....CU later
Thanks again Herb ,,,Kenny & "the beat goes on" and thanks again to Paul Warnik for letting me share this thread with him.

posted 22 March 2001 11:10 AM         

He doesn't use a pick and really doesn't like fingerpicks, likens it to 'washing your feet with you're socks on', so it's a very different sound.

Report:
Works well with others.
Nice guitar.
Shows llloootttsss of potential.

[This message was edited by chas smith on 22 March 2001 at 09:37 PM.]

posted 22 March 2001 02:35 PM         

To you bOb ,,,I appreciate your giving an old guy some time on your "Forum" to reminisce about a great time in my life...I am going to tell a story and want to send this to all of you out there,,,,

If I dont tell the stories now,,,I may never get the chance again,,,there are a number of fellows out there who own and have owned a Fender Custom guitar,,,,the few I know are Gene Jones, Charles Tilly,and a few others, I believe in Gene's case ,,,he is the original owner of a Fender Custom Triple neck guitar,,,,so as I hope you all enloy this story,,, I would like to especially direct this story to them as well as all of you guys out there....

I will start after dinner,,,I have to back to the store,,,and the only time I get alone is on the computer,,,,Im a busy guy,,, my puppies are "very active" in the great outdoors if you get the point...Be back later. PS bOb If after this upcoming story if you guys can stand it,,,I will start a "new thread" thanks for your suggestion,,,appreciate it,,,,age is setting in ,,,I forgot Kenny D. "and the beat goes on
didnt really forget you Kenny ,,,just sort of forgot for a second,,,,and even a second is too long to forget a cool dude like you,,,sorry buddy ....and to you too Charlie Smith

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 22 March 2001 at 02:45 PM.]

posted 22 March 2001 05:53 PM         

Hey ,,,,Im not writing a book here,,,just some moments of interest to some of you who would like me to share some of my memories with my friend's Leo Fender & Donald D. Randall..

There are many books out there with much more interesting information that I have to offer,,,Fender has caught much attention over the years by many,,,and there are many many more people who could discuss the techincal advantages and features of Fender products products etc,,,Iam by far a technically competant person to even get invloved in that issue.

My only advantage as a sales rep was the ability to drive many many miles,call on hundreds of music srores,,,show what I beleived to be a great product,,,having to have the patience to accept rejection,,,there was much of that. I never was a super salesman that ever worked for Leo Fender & Don Randall,,,but I would go as far as to say "I was the proudest".

I WILL REFER TO THIS STORY AS "THE MIDDLE LEG

It was early on in 1952,,,when I went out to the Fender factory and sales offices,,, I was a friend of Leo and Don's since late 49 or so.

My first Fender guitar was a "custom triple neck guitar,,,that was awarded to me back in 1949,,,I was to use this guitar for the promotion of Fender guitars. No I didnt pay for this guitar,,,but it proved to pay me for the rest of my life,,,both as a musician endorser and eventually a sales representative.

I had called Don Randall a number of times regarding a defective pickup on my guitar,my guitar was the standard model custom with the three telescoping legs,,,the finish was blonde,,,but is now referred to as "buuterscotch"

I also had "finish checking" which is now considered "vintage advantage" to me it meant the finish was not right,,,,.

I was able to take my very first trip to Santa Ana California,,,to visit Leo & Don & a few others who were friends through the coming years.

When I arrived in Santa Ana,,I had my guitar with me,,,I went to visit Don at the sales office then went over to CLF "Clarence Leo Fender's shop...It was a relativley small shop that was etched in my memory forever since that day...

I went in with my guitar and waited a few moments for leo,,,,he came out in his usual dress code,,,,his short sleeved shirt with the shirt pocket lined with screw drivers etc his trousers had a "holster" with tools hanging out,,, I often wondered if he slept with these.

He was happy to see me,,,always had a great big smile on his face,,,and if any of you would have ever thought of Leo as a typical grandpop type guy and as down to earth as you can get,,,,you thought right.
His personality was always bright and positive and he loved his work with a passion.

After exchanging conversation with him,,he took me through his shop as well as the factory and introduced me to most all of the workers,,,he had a way of making people feel at home,,,his employee's respected him,,not for who he was,,,but was he was...At this point in time Fender was not a household name just a guitar manufacturer in the (once) strawberry fields of Santa Ana.

I showed Leo my guitar and described the problem I was having with the pickup on the neck furthest from me,,,he said he would take care of that,,, I asked him about the finish checking and looked at it very carefully and he called for another man,,,his name was Freddy Tavares.

I explained to the problem with the pickup etc and he assued me he would make it right for me,,, I told leo I was going over to see Don Randall at the sales office a few blocks away,,,,I was a single guy back then and they had some real cute "california gals" working in the sales office,,,,,

I spent some time with Don Randall and visited with some of the folks in the credit dept etc,,,,,Don called me over and said Leo would like to see me at the shop again.
I walked back down to CLF,,,and Leo explained the problem with the pickup and the finish,,,,I had to ask Leo a question here,,, I said to him....Leo I really dont like the "tripod" leg design,,,he once more called Freddy into the shop,,,Leo's shop looked like what you would imagine the workshop of a "Frankenstein creator" there were tools everywhere,,,although he was neat,one had to be careful not to trip over his array of machinery,,,test equipment etc etc.Leo asked me to repeat my conversation regarding the tripod leg design,,,,
I explained to leo & Freddy that I used my volume pedal with my left foot and that i really had to postion it in the right place in order for me to feel comfortable.

Leo got off his chair and said to me,,,Jody Noel Bogg's has no problem with that tripod leg position,,,,neither does Leon McAuliffe,,,I got the message,,,here were two great players and who am I to make a suggestion to Leo Fender about something he felt was of little or no importance,,,,but since this was Leo Fender,,,this is what he did.

He took my guitar with the legs inserted in the body,,,walked me all over the parking lot looking for an "uneven surface" to show me the reason for the tripod positioning of the 3 legs,,,we walked all over the lot,,we looked like two dogs looking for a "favorite spot" to take care of business,,,Leo could not find a spot suitable for his demonstration of how the tripod design would eliminate any uneven surface,,,

I think he was becoming frustrated,,,he couldnt find a spot to convince me that his design was best.. Who was i to argue with Leo Fender,,,it was drizzling (who ever said it dont rain in So.California) at this point I didnt care how many legs or how uneven the parking lot was,,, i wanted to go inside,,,we were both wet and having a bit of jet lag,,I wanted to go back to the motel and rest up.

When we went back into his shop,,he told Freddy how he had convinced me about the three legs,,,,Freddy was laughing like hell,he said Leo I didnt know what you two were doing out there in the rain,,,Leo said Freddy ,,,,this fellows from back east are hard people to convince,,,Freddy was enjoying himself,,,I noticed when ever I spoke he would laugh & laugh...I wondered what he was laughing about,,,,I found out later from Leo's secretary,,,she said Freddy was really amused at my New York accent and he said he had never heard anyone try to express themselves in the manner in which I did.
I told Freddy something that really amused him...I was not aware it was he who was playing steel guitar on the Foy Willing recording of "Anytime" recorded on Capitol records,,,,I had note for note memorized that chorus of what I thoughtwas great.was not aware that it was he who played steel guitar on that recording,,,,he would ask me to do that again....I would whistle the solo I heard on that record,,,I was also able to hum the note for note chorus,I wanted to show my talent by whistling and humming the chorus,,,,Leo was laughing like the devil,,,Freddy had to leave the room,,he was bent over laughing,,,,he laughed so hard he wet his pants "literally"

Both Freddy and Leo thought I was a riot,,,but I didnt think I was so funny,,,I was embarrased......

Leo asked me what I was doing for dinner,, I told him I had nothing planned,,,he aske d me to join Freddy and himself,,,it was about 4.30 am ,,, I said OK Leo,,,what time do you want me here,,,,he said,,,we are going out now,,,man it was still light outside,,besides I ate on the trip out and didnt feel that good,,,that parking lot excursion left me feeling weary as young as i was...

He said Freddy,,,,,Jody is joing us for dinner,,,I said leo it's still light outside, he replied Jody there are a few things you city boys have to learn....you gotta do as much as you can by the "dawns early light,,,he said to me...boy ,,,whenever you buy a car always look at it in the day time in the light,,,you can see the true color,,,and when looking at a guitar finish,,,do the same
look at it in the light,,,it will look different in a club with lighting,,,and also remember it;s best to eat when it's light outside ,,,you can see what you are eating,and by all means look at the gals in the light,,,they look different in the dark.
Leo taught me those four things,,,now I know why some of the girls i went out with looked so different in the morning light,,,man that leo was something else,,,Freddy Tavares was in the rest room he was bent over laughing.

They dropped me off at the motel,,,I had no where to go so I went to my room & rested after a day of excitement,,, I didnt want to see that parking lot ever again,,, I called home and spoke to my mom,,I was single at that time,,,,told her i would call her in the morning.

The next morning the phone rang,,typical ring from a switchboard,,,rapid rings like "ring ring ring" ring 'ring ring" I thought it may be my mom ,,,she may have not realized the time difference and thought maybe something was wrong,,,,,I picked up the phone and I heard this.....Jody.....How be ya?? it was Leo Fender at 5.15 am he said " are you awake?? I said yes Iam now Leo,,,he said ,,,did ya have breakfast yet I said no Leo,,,I dont eat in bed,,,he said c'mon down to the shop we'll go for some "vittles" I didnt know what "vittles meant,,,man was it "kitty vittles???? or what?

We went to Leo's favorite eating spot a plain ole diner,,,he told me to eat oatmeal it would line my stomach and keep me good till lunchtime,,,I started to think Oh man was this trip necessary??

We went back to the shop it was about 6.45 am no one was there except for Leo & I and in came Freddy.....Leo said to Freddy ,,,Freddy I got to teach this boy how to live,,,,,he asked Freddy to "fetch" my guitar,,,,Freddy came back with what looked like a brand new tweed case....he placed it on the work bench....the triple neck guitar was right side up,,,,it looked different,,Leo turned it over and with a big smile said,,,,here ya go....your four legs,I didnt know what to say,,,it was a brand new custom guitar and you could still smell the laquer and the newness,,,that is something I will never ever forget.

Freddy told me Leo had gone back to the shop after we had dinner and get a new guitar with four legs ready for me....He was waiting for my approval and he asked ...well does that make ya happy???

He said something to me that would forever be an "inside" joke,,,and it was always,,,,how's your middle leg,,,Im sure it could be taken as suggestive,,,,and im sure Leo as proper as he was, meant it that way,,,
How's your middle leg"???

I went home a few days later with my new baby and memories that will last me a lifetime,,,the smell of wood being sawed, the sweet smell of laquer and paint the sound of the machinery,,,Freddy Tavares laughing,,,Leo's big smile,,,that guitar was something very very special to me I kept it until 1960 I had done numerous recordings with it,,,numerous television shows,,,it was a part of me,,,Don Randall called and told me they were shipping me a Fender 1000 and asked me if I would use that on any up coming dates etc,,,..

Like a fool,,, I sold the guitar to a friend but that time I got paid for it,,,,It was a policy that all endrorsers send their instruments back for replacement for any instrument of their choice it was a policy and a good one at that,,,as a few I shall not mention their names,,,they are gone now..would sell off their instruments and then report them as stolen to get a "free instrument" when this was discovered by Don Randall that policy went into effect,,,Don told me to keep my guitar I didnt have to sell it or return it,,,,but like a fool I sold it to a fellow,,,who was 6ft 6 inches in height and weighed in at 260 Lbs or so & he had the guitar "routed out" to make it easier to carry.

I yearned for another custom guitar the last ten years or so,,,,I wanted that memory back again,,,,I had made numerous e mails to a few fellows who are Forum members ,,,they had a few custom guitars for sale,,,,I finally found one,,,it cost me quite a bit considering,,,but the reason it was worth it to me?? the serial number of the one I bought is # 9634 the serial number of the one I had since 1952 with the four legs was serial # 9636,,,,they came from the same litter of pups,,,except mine was special it had 4 legs,,,the one I have has the tripod legs,,,it is in mint condition and when I look down at the guitar as I play it ,,,all those sounds and smell's and memories come back to me from way back when,,, I dont even care if i ever play it,,, I just want to look at it and think of those great times in my life which I thank God for.

I have contacted Bobbe Seymour and asked him if he had a couple of extra flanges for my new baby,,,he said he did,,, Iam going to buy them and have them installed because I dont want people to appreciate my playing,,I just want them to ask me "where my middle leg" and ya know what,,,,Leo was right to begin with,,,you really dont need that extra leg....but since he did that special little thing for me,,,,I want that extra leg,,,,I look at the length of this and wonder when bOb will tell me to "give it a rest" If any of you can find Foy Willings recording of Anytime on Capitol records BUY IT and listen to Freddy Tavares playing his steel guitar & if you cant find it ....call me and i will

Hum & Whistle it for you,,,,
Fender had a few choice things they would use it their advertising years ago...ir was a theme associated with posters etc
"YOU WONT PART WITH YOURS EITHER
"OFTEN COPIED NEVER EQUALED"
and Forum member Dave Van Allen came up with a nice one that is simple and I think Leo & Don would have liked and it's his signature"

FENDER OF COURSE

Thank you for your time and patience,,,,,
PS I hope you dont wear your mouse out scrolling through this novel,,,then again you can always read it in 4 parts,,,,,Have to go now and look at my guitar,,,but it is missing the middle leg.....
Copyright(c)2001 by Jody Carver "All Rights
Reserved"

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 16 May 2001 at 03:58 PM.]

posted 22 March 2001 06:06 PM         

Seriously though, it's nice to have your input from a period when some forumites where kids, or others like myself were not even born. Not trying to make you sound old, but we certainly appreciate your input here on the forum, and yes,..as always a big thankyou to b0b!