Steel Guitar Strings
Strings & instruction for lap steel, Hawaiian & pedal steel guitars
http://SteelGuitarShopper.com
Ray Price Shuffles
Classic country shuffle styles for Band-in-a-Box, by BIAB guru Jim Baron.
http://steelguitarmusic.com

This Forum is CLOSED.
Go to bb.steelguitarforum.com to read and post new messages.



Note: This is an archived topic. It is read-only.
  The Steel Guitar Forum
  Pedal Steel Archive
  Servo Changer? (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

profile | join | preferences | help | search


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel
Author Topic:   Servo Changer?
Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 19 August 2000 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
In another thread, we were exploring the idea of a servo-based electric changer. I thought that the idea deserved its own thread. Here goes.

After a bit of web-surfing, I came across a linear servo. Here's the site: Compumotor.com. What do you think, folks?

------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 21 August 2000 at 02:36 PM.]



Jack Stoner
Sysop

Posts: 8119
From: Inverness, Florida
Registered: DEC 99

posted 20 August 2000 04:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Stoner     
The linear concept is different.

As much as I would like to see the Pedal Steel go to the next level in design, I don't really see servo's as being practical in this application.

I have thought in the past having servo's would be the electronic pedal steel of the future, but after really thinking about it, with the technology available today, I have to back down.

If we're going to have an "electronic pedal steel" any frequency (pitch) modification would have to be solid state electronics.
Don't ask me how - if I had the answer I'd be building it.


basilh
Member

Posts: 3417
From: United Kingdom
Registered: MAY 99

posted 20 August 2000 05:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for basilh     
Hi b0b,

I think the possibility SHOULD be explored.

Myself and a John Birch experimented with both solenoid and hydraulic mechanisms and also photo-cell pickups in the late 60's,BUT had to give up due to the un-availabilty of the required parts. You are indeed fortunate to live in a country where almost anything is so readily available.
baz


Al Marcus
Member

Posts: 7471
From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
Registered: MAY 99

posted 20 August 2000 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Al Marcus     
I tried a steel at the NAMM trade show at Chicago, in 1953. It had , I believe 6 buttons on top and when you pushed a button, it changed the chord or tuning.
It was hooked up to solonoids. With the amp on, when you hit the button, it made a sound like a gun going off.
It did work though, and it would have worked with buttons on the floor.
Now if they only could have got rid of that racket of the solonoid working.
It was like a washing machine sound when you change cycles, only loud with the amp on.

I think Gibson worked on some hydraulic system for a short while. Then they came out with the torque tube with pedals in front, but when you hit the pedal , it twisted a cam? on the left end and pulled down the tuning bar with the tuning screws in it.And it worked both 8 string necks.
Al Gershen could probably have more info on that. I think that he has one. I have played one in Kalamazoo at the Gibson Factory, like 50 years ago or so......al


Steve Feldman
Member

Posts: 2983
From: Millbury, MA USA
Registered: DEC 99

posted 20 August 2000 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Feldman     
A French company, Mavic, tried that several years ago with rear derailleurs on (pro-level) bicycles and it didn't fly. They reintroduced another version last year and the jury is still out. In steel guitars as well as bicycles, I'd bet that it will ultimately boil down to a choice between new technology and tradition, with tradition holding a strong lead.


Jerry Gleason
Member

Posts: 539
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered:

posted 20 August 2000 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Gleason     
Go to google.com and do a search for "self tuning guitar". There at least two competing products on the market using microprocessors and motors to alter tuning in a standard guitar. It wouldn't be a big reach to develop and refine this technology for pedal steel. Just think, you could have any pedal setup, change dynamically from JI to ET, even set the computer to have the strings compensate instantly for imperfect left hand technique!

Then, electronically induced vibrato.... Heck, the instrument could eventually be made to play itself....!

Bill Crook
Member

Posts: 1820
From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Crook     
Don't think the linear controller would work for a pedal replacement. It's too much like a relay, fully at rest or totally engaged. I dont think that a linear device that small would have enought strength to pull a string to the tourqe needed for a 5 fret change in pitch.

How would you do a S-L-O-W bend with it ??
Plus tactical feedback (footwise) would be gone. Would be kinda hard to put expression in a riff with it. Besides, The pedal rods are a characteristic part of the "Pedal Steel". Most folks relate to the pedals and rods, It would be like taking the neck off a lead guitar.

the ones I looked at at that web-page was for Industrial use, using 442 loop and computer controlled feedback, way too complicated for a Steel Guitar. Last,but an important part, cost of implempting such a system would raise the price by at least $2500 or more, so your $3200 axe just went to almost $6000 and better.

Now as for fluid drive (hydraulic)pedals, They always leak !! There go's your tunning of that pedal. Also, one must understand that tempature plays a good part in the expanion of fluid drive devices. (This could get a lot deeper but,no need to)

Lets just attempt to inprove the lever action we now have and if anything needs re-designing,lets look at the finger changer and work on cabinet drop.

Just my 2cents.....

[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 21 August 2000 at 05:50 AM.]



Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
I was thinking that the guitar would have traditional-looking pedals and pedal rods. when you press a pedal, it would work a pot inside the body of the guitar. A spring could be adjusted to set the pedal to the desired stiffness.

Modern servos can provide very subtle and accurate movements over their entire operating range. They are not on/off devices like solonoids.

Hydrolics have nothing to do with servos, and offer no benefits over a traditional mechanical linkage.

------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)


Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
Jack Stoner wrote:
quote:
I have thought in the past having servo's would be the electronic pedal steel of the future, but after really thinking about it, with the technology available today, I have to back down.
Jack, what are the problems that you see with the "technology available today"? I tend to think that the only real problem might be cost. Are there other problems with servos that you view as insurmountable?


Lynn Kasdorf
Member

Posts: 185
From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA
Registered: AUG 98

posted 21 August 2000 07:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lynn Kasdorf     
I've been thinking about this for about 6 years now. I have a few thoughts on it.

1. An electromechanical changer would be an awesome thing, but has several challenges to overcome. The computer side of it is pretty straighforward, and there is a wide range of user interface options that one could have. The hard part is the actuator mechanism.

2. The changer has to be strong, fast, and linear- that is, it needs to be stable in any position from no pull, to the full pull. You need to be able to do a half pedal, and slew at any rate.

3. More challenges: any magnetic field generated by the actuator must be shielded. The changer must be mechanically silent (ever heard the whine of a powerful stepper motor?).

4. I would'nt rule out solenoids. They are fast and powerful and reasonably compact. You need to have a feedback mechanism and analog driver system that can hold it at any position. That is, you have a shaft encoder on the changer and a feedback system that supplies enough current to the solenoid to hold it at any arbitrary position. Solenoids do have the problem of generating huge magnetic fields, though...

4. Once you have a changer built, you could make pedals that have any kind of feel, travel, or location that you want. All they would be doing is moving an optical shaft encoder. You could have all sorts of different actuator mechanisms- how about an eyebrow lever?

5. Now, this would all be much easier if the pitch change is done electronically...However, I think that you would be moving too far away from the sound of the pedal steel. When you stretch a string while it is ringing, there are harmonic changes that would be pretty hard to duplicate. Of course, with enough analysis and DSP power, you can do nearly anything...

------------------
"You call that thing a guitar?"


C Dixon
Member

Posts: 5912
From: Duluth, GA USA
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 09:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for C Dixon     
Hydraulics and vacuum IMHO, is not the answer at least as far as I am concerned. To messy and/or too noisy. Too cumbersome also.

What I would like to see is like what b0b mentioned. From the top, sides, front and back a PSG that looks identical to one presently. Maybe a few less pedals and knee levers, but with everything plus much more than what is presently possible.

Of all the devices I can think of, ONLY the servo would suffice, IMHO. ON a U-12, it would require 24 discrete servo motors. 12 attached to each raise finger and 12 attached to the corresponding lower fingers.

No crossrods, bell-cranks or pull rods would be necessary. However, pedals, pedal rods and knee levers would be the same.

But everything else would be computer control and mechanical linkages (where necessary). The back half of the U-12 would have a mini LCD screen and a keyboard.

All pulls and "feels" would be programmed in for each knee pedal and knee lever.

Each pedal's and knee lever's changes would have 3 basic choices:

1. At rest

2. Volume pedal to the right position.

3. Volume pedal to the left position.

Note: the volume pedal would work like the old Bigbsy/Fender tone and volume pedal. Except the tone part would have 3 postions:

1. Center position "At rest"

2. Right position

3. Left position

Being computer controlled Servos, "feel", response and action would duplicat EXACTLY what a straight mechanical linkage PSG does today. This is a prime MUST. Without this, it is dead.

But the beauty of computer control is:

1. Any pedal or knee lever could be "programmed" to pull all 12 strings if one wished. And in a pico second if one wanted it. Or any combination in between.

2. The "feel" of each pedal and knee lever could be "Programmed" in to suit the player.

3. Changing from a JD to BE setup could be one stroke on a keyboard.

4. No limit beyond the 3 fixed options (mentioned above) for the pedals and knee lever changes. And all done on a keyboard.

5. Plus, instant and 100% accurate return to a "pre-set" set-up.

Etc, etc, etc!

So what I am invisioning is a far cry from an electronic "pitch changer". It is a PSG that looks, feels, sounds and plays exactly as one does now. But with fewer pedals and knee levers. However, it seems like a PSG with almost unlimited pedals and knee levers.

I just do not see hydaulics and/or vacuum playing a role here. But I do see computer controlled servos or some device I am not familiar with as being a very viable and real possiblity here.

It may come one day. Who knows? May our Lord guide us in the correct and best way,

carl



Ric Epperle
Member

Posts: 1490
From: Sheridan, Wyoming USA . Like no other place on Earth...
Registered: MAR 2000

posted 21 August 2000 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ric Epperle     
Well Carl and b0b..
You sure sparked my interest. What a concept.


Rick Collins
Member

Posts: 3286
From: Claremont , CA USA
Registered: MAY 2000

posted 21 August 2000 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Collins     
Bob,

Would you want this much power under the guitar? You could stop the noise going to the pickup but; the leg muscles are so strong and the pedals are so easy to push, you don't need to achieve any mechanical advantage. Power brakes on an auto, yes___a pedal steel????

But it's a good science project.

Rick

Earnest Bovine
Member

Posts: 4687
From: Los Angeles CA USA
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Earnest Bovine     
The device would require less day-to-day tuning if its input and output were tension (force) rather than position.


Jack Stoner
Sysop

Posts: 8119
From: Inverness, Florida
Registered: DEC 99

posted 21 August 2000 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Stoner     
From what I know (and it's not much) the size of the servo motors that would produce enough torque to move the string or a changer finger would have to be pretty big (and expensive). I had also thought one time of having a servo motor operating each cross rod and having the floor or knee pedals move a pot that would then send a control voltage to the servo but I can't see it realistically working to the satisfaction of musicians.

The satisfaction of musician's is the key to the whole concept. Not so much that it couldn't be done, disregarding price or the size of the components, it's whether it is really practical.

I think if we ever get to a "next generation" pedal steel it would have to be electronic with midi, not an electro/mechanical solution.



Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
Rick, I don't think of it as a mechanical advantage. The idea isn't necessarily to reduce the force needed to push a pedal. That's just a side benefit.

The real reason for a servo changer is to be able to easily change what a pedal or lever does, even while playing the instrument. For example, I only use the F# to G# change on country songs. I'd like to repurpose that lever when I'm playing blues or rock.

------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)


Rick Collins
Member

Posts: 3286
From: Claremont , CA USA
Registered: MAY 2000

posted 21 August 2000 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Collins     
Bob, Thanks for the clarification. That would indeed be a great advantage.

How much power (voltage) would you be talking about under the guitar?

louie hallford
Member

Posts: 812
From: denison tx
Registered: JAN 99

posted 21 August 2000 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for louie hallford     
Where is Dave Parker? He has done some design work on this idea.Not to speak for him ,but I think he believes it is a workable idea ,even if expensive.


ebb
Member

Posts: 1045
From: nj
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ebb     
no need to go electronic and lose the feel factor for 'if' pedals. check out Babbage and Turing.

[This message was edited by ebb on 21 August 2000 at 05:12 PM.]



David Pennybaker
Member

Posts: 1203
From: Conroe, TX USA
Registered: AUG 2000

posted 21 August 2000 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Pennybaker     
Carl Dixon:

I think you've got the right idea.

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://members.xoom.com/dpennybaker/index.htm



Curt Olsen
Member

Posts: 148
From: St. Paul,Mn USA
Registered: NOV 98

posted 21 August 2000 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Curt Olsen     
I think B0b's idea really should be looked at more closely.I have worked for a major US motion control and servo drive company for 33+ years,and this idea is not as far out of line as some people might think.It can be done easily right now but cost and size are a problem.I will post some of my ideas on this subject as soon as I get them on my server.

------------------


Bill Crook
Member

Posts: 1820
From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Crook     
Again.....

Servo's are only stepper motors.(Don't make no difference if they are in a round frame or track frame) The required torque needed to maintain the string at a precise freq is well beyond the ability of a small servo that would fit under a PSG cabinet. To pull hard and hold hard requires a lot of power, mind you now, that it takes a mimiumn of at least 3 wires to operate a stepper device. (most devices use 4 wires) the power cables would need to be at least a 10 gauge wire to handle the current needs. Depending on how many pulls you have on your axe, the count of P/cables could go up to about 30-40. (The 406LXR linear servo shown in the web link has 8 pole pices, not near strong enought for our device needs.) The power supply for such a system would need to be in the range of about 100 amps capability.

I really wouldn't buy stock in such a venture using today's thought in this idea.

[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 21 August 2000 at 09:51 PM.]



Jim Florence
Member

Posts: 761
From: wilburton, Ok. US
Registered:

posted 21 August 2000 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Florence     
Even if you suceeded in the designing of such a device, I can't imagine like has been mentioned, that you could put any feeling or emotion into your playing.I would suppose that it might be similar to the difference in an automatic transmission versus a standard transmission. Anyway if it ever happens I'll bet it will be on the order of merely changing of the frequency of the played note, without changing the tension of the string.

------------------


DAVID PARKER
Member

Posts: 124
From: Quinlan, Texas USA
Registered: JUL 99

posted 21 August 2000 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DAVID PARKER     
First Stepper Mortors and Servo motors are not the same. They are DC motors.There are two types af stepper motors a Polar and a Bi-Polar.the Bi-Polar is a push / pull and more powerful where the polar is all pull. The speed required for the application to a steel guitar changer is not fast enough with stepper motors.A servo motor is either a brushless,brush,or a DC inductance motor. The DC inductance motor is very fast and powerful.A servo motor can be any motor that has a feed back device to the driving device to tell it where it is.This is what is called a closed loop system. I build servo and stepper controled milling machines and the system is very expensive. For a system to pull 16 pulls the price is around $6,000 not counting the software and computer. I have some software that cost $13,000 to drive these things. I run a three axis system on a bridgeport mill with DC induction mortors that will turn at 1,000 rpm on 350 volts DC at 6 amps per motor and hold .0004" of an inch. Okay now I got a headache so I go build another steel guitar for Herb. Remington that is ! trying to get it ready for St. Louis Good thread b0b

------------------
http://home.att.net/~parker1939/


Bill Crook
Member

Posts: 1820
From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 05:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Crook     
quote:
induction motors that will turn at 1,000 rpm on 350 volts DC at 6 amps per motor and hold .0004" of an inch. For a system to pull 16 pulls the price is around $6,000 not counting the software and computer. I have some software that cost $13,000 to drive these things.

350 volt @ 6 amps per motor ????

$19,000, Thats just for the pedal arrangement.

I rest my case !!!!

(I know David's talking about industrial gear here, not PSG drivers.)

A good theme here but not quite ready for prime time use.

Tab Tabscott
Member

Posts: 146
From: Silvana WA. USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 06:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tab Tabscott     
I corresponded with Winnie Winston about this extensively a couple of years ago. He has knowledge of much research in these areas. I haven't talked to anyone who seemed to know more about this subject than he...
Maybe he could be cajoled into providing some insight on this forum...

Tab

------------------
Tab Tabscott
"Bud Carter is a demi-god"

[This message was edited by Tab Tabscott on 22 August 2000 at 06:33 AM.]



Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
Wow! I find it absolutely incredible that it costs thousands of dollars to duplicate the force and precision that we exert every day with our feet and knees. I can push a changer finger with my thumb. Why is it so hard to do with a motor?


C Dixon
Member

Posts: 5912
From: Duluth, GA USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for C Dixon     
b0b,

It's NOT! Sure, on a one to one ratio yes, but geared down, NO problem!

We sacrifice travel to get an easier pull now. The pull on a servo could be equivalent to the full length of the guitar (which would NOT be necessary) if needs be. This would require only infinitesimal power. And lightning fast.

I guarantee you that if Boeing Aircraft Corp were given the task, it would be like falling off a log to their design engineers. And for what we are asking would be a much smaller cost than a computer controlled (CNC) milling machine for industrial use.

With much due respect to everyone, we (b0b and I) must not have made ourselves clear. We are not trying to obtain mechanical and/or power assist as much as we are the ability to have knee levers do different pulls on demand.

Think about this; a PSG with 5 pedals and 5 knee levers. And each knee lever (and possibly each pedal) will do different pulls, just with the push of a switch. And yet retain 100% of the "feel" of present PSG's.

This could easily be equivalent to a pedal steel guitar with 15 pedals and 15 knee levers. Or less!!

You would have a standard set-up of the most often used pedals and knee levers. Then a switch is thrown (foot operated maybe), and select pedals and knee levers would do something different. Throw the switch to the opposite (from rest) position and other select pedals and knee levers would "switchover".

Would it be for everyone? Of course not. Jerry Byrd never went to pedals. Tom Morrell went to them and abandoned them. Others did similar. But for many of us that have the need for additional pedals and/or knee levers, but no practical place to put them, I just think the idea has merit.

carl


[This message was edited by C Dixon on 22 August 2000 at 08:56 AM.]



Dave Van Allen
Member

Posts: 5369
From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Van Allen     
I think ebb is on to something:

a "Steel Guitar ' Difference Engine' "

install the thing in a Victorian era design wood cabinet, looking like grandma's chiffarobe...

forward- into the past!!!

Joseph Barcus
Member

Posts: 711
From: Volga West Virginia "usa"
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph Barcus     
I have thought about a hydraulic changer myself, but the only thing that would be bad is the have pedal movements, it would be too fast to work out. but then again maybe not. what do you think

------------------
carter single 10


Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
What Carl said. For example, I worked out a chart for two completely different copedents on one set of strings: D6xE9. What I'm envisioning is an array of servos, one for each finger of the changer. The pedals/levers each control a voltage level into a computer, and the computer decides which changer fingers to pull and how far to pull them. You set up the pedals and tune the pulls via computer software.

I really don't see why you'd need super heavy motors or big voltages. Like Carl said, you can get the force you need from various sizes of gears.

If one of you mechanical engineers can show me some math that proves it can't be done, I'll shut up.

------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)


Lynn Kasdorf
Member

Posts: 185
From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA
Registered: AUG 98

posted 22 August 2000 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lynn Kasdorf     
I feel pretty certain that this could be done, provided a suitable actuator mechanism could be found.

Regarding the cost estimates- don't let these estimates scare you off. For something like this to be built, you would do your own custom driver electronics and software. The primary expense is that of the actuators and custom machining. The electronics side is a pretty straightforward engineering task, and the parts would not be that bad.

The prices of off the shelf CNC software is pretty much irelevant because they price it to what the market will bear. It would not be usable in this situation anyway. Also, I don't buy that estimate of current consumption.

The changer could be dead simple- just a pivoting finger that is long enough to provide enough mechanical advantage for the actuators.

Once the actuator changer thing is worked out, then comes the really enjoyable part- the user interface design. I would suggest optical shaft encoders on the pedals rather than pots, so that they never wear out. Pedal feel could be tweaked with adjustable spring tension.

For modifying setups, get control software working on a laptop or evene a pal pilot first, then migrate to a small touch screen built into the guitar that is controlled by an embedded CPU. Really, the software is the easy part, and could take many forms. I could envision a series of physical buttons that would be presets. Some of these preset buttons could be foot or knee actuated.

I have wanted to experiment with this concept for years now, and this conversation has gottem me thinking about the problem again. I now have a shop and most of the wherewithal to do some experiments with this- I just need to find the right actuator.

Man, I'd love to work on this!!

Of course, I should probably just practice playing the instruments I have instead!

------------------
"You call that thing a guitar?"


Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
I'd really enjoy writing the software.


Earnest Bovine
Member

Posts: 4687
From: Los Angeles CA USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Earnest Bovine     
Me too. Gotta brush up on my COBOL.


Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 22 August 2000 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
Gak! I was thinking of using Forth.


DAVID PARKER
Member

Posts: 124
From: Quinlan, Texas USA
Registered: JUL 99

posted 23 August 2000 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DAVID PARKER     
Yes I am talking about industrial equipment that is what stepper and servo motors were designed for.Model aircraft and toy controls will not work with the demand of a pedal steel guitar.I am not sure that a high speed servo is fast enough for some of the quick blips we use sometime.The speed is one reason we got away from the cable pull guitars and went to rod pull in the first place.There are a lot of websites on stepper and servo motors and controllers. Key words are "Stepper Motor" or "Servo Motor"

------------------
http://home.att.net/~parker1939/


db
Member

Posts: 680
From: Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA
Registered: JAN 99

posted 23 August 2000 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for db     
I feel that the best application for servo/changer mechanism development would be for the changing of pedal functions "on the fly", especially for the universal tunings.
The maximum/optimum pedal/levers is about 8+5.
If the functions of these could be changed depending on the "tuning" that you are playing out of, the complexity could be reduced and the possible alternatives could be expanded.
Perhaps adding a couple of "locking" options to play out of different tunings.
These would not require the "feel" and "speed of response" requirements of a "totally-servo-changer".


Dan Tyack
Member

Posts: 3552
From: Seattle, WA USA
Registered:

posted 23 August 2000 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Tyack     
The software would be an order of magnitude simpler than a CNC system. There are a number of languages which would do the trick. Forth would work well, but even Java.....

I'll volunteer to write some code.

Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 24 August 2000 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
I was thinking Forth for speed and simplicity. Somehow I still have a problem imagining Java in embedded systems. Guess I'm getting old...


Jeff Lampert
Member

Posts: 2636
From: queens, new york city
Registered: MAY 2000

posted 24 August 2000 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jeff Lampert     
It's circa 1968. Remeber COBOL and FORTRAN? Remember punching computer programs onto cards and compiling them? Remember printing programs onto long printouts in order to debug them? Remember slide rules? Gulp!!


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are Pacific (US)

This is an ARCHIVED topic. You may not reply to it!
Hop to:

Contact Us | Catalog of Pedal Steel Music Products

Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46

Our mailing address is:
The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support the Forum