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Author	Topic: Jimmy Day's Tone
Robert Member Posts: 246 From: Champaign, IL Registered: SEP 2000	posted 23 November 2000 10:08 PM I'm hoping to get a rough consensus of your opinions: listening to Jimmy Day "Steel and Strings" and wondering what guitar/amp combo he was using circa 1960-62 that contributed to that fat, gorgeous tone. I know that no small part of that tone came from his HANDS, but that guitar tone . . . man! Thanks, Rob
Dave Van Allen Member Posts: 5369 From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth Registered:	posted 24 November 2000 08:29 AM I asked a similar question a while ago... I don't remember there being a definitive answer 'cept that it was 8 String D9 tuning not E9... which may account for a lot of the fat richness of the sound. Was it aSho~Bud or a Fender guitar? Seems like both were mentioned as possibilities. Standel amp? Fender? Something else? ------------------ "I AM ZUMBODY!" Zumsteel U12 "Loafer" 8&6 :: Fender T-8 Stringmaster :: Fender Tube Amplification MooseMuseMusicSite :: vanallen@voicenet.com
Bill Stafford Member Posts: 1347 From: Gulfport,Ms. USA Registered: OCT 99	posted 24 November 2000 08:51 AM Yep, Jimmy Day's tone is Jimmy Day. Good equipment usually helps but various brands etc will not allow anyone else to replicate his tone. Example: At the Joliet Hawaiian show a few years back the Master of Touch and Tone was there. My amps were on stage. Jerry did not even bring his personal guitar and/or amps. He just brought his vol. pedal and only because he has it wired "backwards". (?) "?" only because it works in the opposite direction. (No one could ever say that Jerry B. does things "backwards"). LOL Jerry borrowed someone's fender lap steel with seven or eight strings and it had very old and rusty strings, etc. I plugged him into my amp on stage, changed no settings what-so-ever. And when Jerry just started to tune the steel, without even putting the bar on the strings, the plucked strings sounded like the Great Jerry Byrd we have all loved over the years. Then when he started playing, everyone knew it was his tone, etc. His touch is his heart and soul, feelings and tone. It is a very personal thing that happens for all of us when we try to play this instrument. I would dearly love to be able to just pluck one string (open) and have it waft through the air to be heard. One note played the way Jerry and Jimmy Day play lets us all know that "now, this is the way it is supposed to be". Just get the best equipment you can afford and then concentrate on improving your practice sessions. Your tone will just happen. Enjoy it. Bill Stafford
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 From: Cloverdale, North California, USA Registered:	posted 24 November 2000 09:15 AM That album sounds like a Fender pedal steel through a Fender amp to me. The secret of the tone is really in Jimmy Day's hands, and his great volume pedal technique. It seems to be common knowledge that he used an 8 string D9th tuning on "Steel and Strings". The lower pitch of the strings added a bit more body to the tone.
Dave Van Allen Member Posts: 5369 From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth Registered:	posted 26 November 2000 11:53 AM Doesn't anyone know for sure? Herb? Ricky?
Robert Member Posts: 246 From: Champaign, IL Registered: SEP 2000	posted 26 November 2000 04:43 PM Dave - What do you think? I think the D9 explanation sounds like a good one. The CD liner photos show Jimmy playing an old Sho-Bud, but they're pictures from some club gig and not from the "Steel and Strings" sessions. The lower pitch and Jimmy's very "vocal" and dense vibrato are probably what I'm hearing. Thanks, guys. Rob
Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 From: Cedar Springs,MI USA Registered: MAY 99	posted 26 November 2000 06:51 PM Well, a lot of players in the old days, used D9 or D6. It was a mellower tone and you didn't have that G# string to break every day. I tried going to D tonic open, but always went back to E. It was more comfortable for me.....al
B Bailey Brown Member Posts: 606 From: San Antonio, TX (USA) Registered:	posted 27 November 2000 07:37 PM I believe that Herb Steiner had a rather definitive post on this topic some time back. You might try searching the archives of the forum. He asked Jimmy the questions, and Jimmy gave him the answers. Herb’s post confirmed what I had “heard” about the album. It was recorded on a borrowed Fender 1000, D9th tuning, no knee levers. I never remember hearing what amp was used, but one can assume that if Jimmy borrowed the guitar, he probably borrowed the amp too. As several other people have pointed out, the secret to Jimmy’s tone was Jimmy…not the equipment. Although I will admit to my ear, the tone on the Steel And Strings album is probably the best I ever heard from Jimmy. That is a rather subjective judgment, because I never heard anything Jimmy did that was not about as “good” as it gets. B. Bailey Brown
Tele Member Posts: 965 From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany Registered: NOV 99	posted 28 November 2000 02:00 AM I remember another thread saying that Jimmy shared that Fender 1000 with Buddy Emmons. From the way the amp breaks up I would say it was also a Fender, doesn't sound like a Standel. I really love his tone, this small amount of "distortion" is what I miss in todays steel sounds. Andy ------------------ ShoBud Gallery
Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered:	posted 28 November 2000 01:59 PM I asked Charlie Owens if he might have some insights on this. This is an excerpt from his reply------ "I met Jimmy Day in the latter part of 1959 when he was with Ray Price. He was playing the original Blue Darling Shobud which was made for him in 1957. As far as I know that is the one he did the recording with. It was a double 8 string. I don't believe he went to another guitar until the 10 stringers came out. He did many sessions with the Original Blue Darling. You hear the same full tone on Pick Me Up On Your Way Down by Charlie Walker, When Your House Is Not A Home by Jimmy Dickens, Window Up Above by George Jones, Misery Loves Company by Porter Wagoner, Heart Ache By The Numbers, City Lights, and more by Ray Price. As far as the Amp goes I don't have a clue. Most pickers back then used Fenders or Standels. I was around Jimmy Day quite a bit and I never knew that he tuned to a D 9th. Each time I saw him he tuned to E 9th. Jimmy never did talk too much about his music. He was very talented. Knowing him he probably tuned down to D 9th to help the string section out on the session. Fiddles never did like E Chord. Jimmy didn't like to play in an open chord if he didn't have to. In D 9th you would be in E Flat on the first fret, which fiddlers love. That is just a thought. I think that on the Golden Hits that he played Steel Guitar Rag in C 6th in Eb. The first double 9 string that I saw belonged to Buddy Emmons in 1962-3 He set it up where I was playing and picked with us for a while. He decided to go down the street where a band was doing a lot of Bob Wills music. I sat down to the Double 9 for a tune or two but it was different so I went back to mine. I think the 10 stringers came out shortly after that."
Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX Registered:	posted 28 November 2000 04:34 PM I asked Jimmy... rather, I told him I "discovered" he played D9th because he played "She Thinks I Still Care" in Bb using open strings, and he concurred with a big smile. As to what brand guitar, I had incorrectly (I believe) assumed it was a Fender, but Vern Kendrick told me it was definitely an 8-string Sho-Bud, and since he was close to Jimmy at that time, I assume he's correct. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ------------------ Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered:	posted 03 December 2000 03:38 PM This doesn't exactly inform--just provides viewing pleasure. From Charlie Owens who writes: quote: This picture is from the Liner of The Offenders Reunion written by Johnny Bush. I wouldn't swear to it but this is probably the Original Blue Darling Pedal Steel. Maybe someone can shed some light on this. At any rate it is a D8. Can't see much of the Amp.
chris ivey Member Posts: 1105 From: sacramento, ca. usa Registered: NOV 98	posted 03 December 2000 08:09 PM not to be sacreligious or anything, but after i had discovered buddy emmons many, many years ago, i heard some other ray price tunes with what i understood was jimmy day playing steel. the tone was thin and somewhat out of tune..especially in comparison to this new beautiful world i'd discovered in emmons. granted, this was at least 30 years ago or so, but it unfortunately gave me an inferior picture of jimmy day. can anyone shed some light on this era of his career, and perhaps point me to his works that have made everyone admire him so? thanks....no disrespect intended!
Tele Member Posts: 965 From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany Registered: NOV 99	posted 04 December 2000 06:07 AM Chris, I read your post this morning before I went to work but I couldn't get it out of my mind. So now I'm back trying to answer though not an expert... Jimmy Days work with Ray Price (late 50s-early 60s) still sounds outstanding to me. You could also check his work with Johnny Bush... He played on a couple of songs that were included in the famous "Night life " album by Ray Price and to me , his tone is as good as Mr. Emmons'. Regarding you're out of tune statement I'd like you to give us some examples. Compared to todays "industry standard" steel sounds his tone is thin. But it cuts through. Please remember that steels, amps and recordings in general sounded different back then. I have a couple of old Sho-Buds and they all have more twang than new steels. I wasn't even born when Jimmy Day played on the classic Ray Price recordings but from what I heard I understand that it was a time when PSG was still on its way from 8 strings to 9 and then 10....he had to play slants to get the chords that we now could get simply engaging those levers. Talking about the "Night life" album, check "Pride" or "24th Hour". The Steel was played by Jimmy Day, I don't hear a big difference to the sound ( not tone !!)of Buddy Emmons. Actually I read that Buddy once said that even he can't tell if Jimmy or he played on particular sessions. just my 2cents Andy [This message was edited by Tele on 04 December 2000 at 08:11 AM.]
chris ivey Member Posts: 1105 From: sacramento, ca. usa Registered: NOV 98	posted 04 December 2000 11:41 AM thnx andy....as i said, no disrespect intended. i'll dig out my albums and see if my record player still works so i can give some examples. maybe i'm just wrong.....
Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 From: Kinston, N.C. 28504 Registered:	posted 04 December 2000 12:11 PM If I may inject a note here, check Ray Price's album titled "San Antonio Rose", I believe this is Jimmy day at his playing best. This was Jimmy's last album with Ray although there were cuts on the "Night Life" ablum that Jimmy had obviously had in the "can". Regardless of what one may want to say about intonation or taste so far as tone goes, Jimmy was a co-writer of "How the Pedal Steel Guitar should be played and sound like" along with Buddy Emmons. ------------------ kd...and the beat goes on...

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