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Williams D-10 Crossover (Page 1)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Williams D-10 Crossover (Page 1)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Williams D-10 Crossover |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 06 February 2001 01:36 PM
It's here! My new Williams D-10 400X just arrived, and I can't wait to get it home and plug it in. I set it up here in the office and I can't take my eyes off of it. This is an absolutely beautiful pedal steel! It has a reddish-brown lacquer finish on some gorgeous pieces of maple. The simple 5+5 arrangement puts all of the pedals and knees within easy, comfortable reach. From the side, though, there are a lot of pulls hooked up. 23 on each neck! The crossover lever is real easy to reach under the left endplate. The crossover mechanism itself is simple and brilliant. It's no wonder that Bill wanted to apply for a patent before making a public announcement about it. It's pure genius, in my opinion. The workmanship underneath is superb. I can't wait to get it home and play it! I want to take this opportunity to thank Bill Rudolph for making my crazy dream a reality. I'm sure it's not easy when a customer comes along who wants something radically different. He stepped up to a challenging idea and turned it into something real and wonderful. Thanks, Bill! ------------------ |
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Danny Hullihen Member Posts: 1782 |
posted 06 February 2001 02:15 PM
Hey Bobby, how bout a picture or two. I would really like to see it. |
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Steve Feldman Member Posts: 2983 |
posted 06 February 2001 02:20 PM
What are you still doing at work? GO HOME, -b0b-. Go home and set it up. Get outta there!!  |
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abraham Member Posts: 479 |
posted 06 February 2001 02:22 PM
Oh, I think we'd all like to see it! b0b, it sounds GREAT!! |
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Don Townsend Member Posts: 321 |
posted 06 February 2001 03:53 PM
I'm betting you're going to really appreciate that 400 Series changer as time goes by. And Bill's keyless system is simplicity itself for changing strings. Go home, Bobby Lee, and take tommorrow off as well!!!!!! Enjoy!!  |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 06 February 2001 04:08 PM
Actually, I've scheduled Thursday and Friday off for a "honeymoon" with this new sweetie!  |
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David Wright Member Posts: 1863 |
posted 06 February 2001 06:08 PM
Sounds like bOb will be busy, shall we see what kind of trouble we can get in to !!!! Post some pictures of the steel... ------------------ |
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Jim Eaton Member Posts: 1036 |
posted 06 February 2001 06:22 PM
Be nice to her or me and the rest of her brothers will have to give you a whippin' I envey you tonight b0b!!! That First night playing a new guitar can't be beat! Bay at the moon and have a great time! JE:-)> |
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Roy Thomson Member Posts: 2308 |
posted 06 February 2001 07:57 PM
There is nothing to compare to the feelings of that moment when you open the case of a new guitar for the first time. Have fun b0b. You deserve it. |
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Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 |
posted 06 February 2001 08:35 PM
Does it make me a sick puppy that I want to see pictures of your honeymoon? I'm excited for you, b0b. |
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Rick Schmidt Member Posts: 1596 |
posted 07 February 2001 01:42 AM
This is really gonna be a landmark in Forum history! Congratualations bOb! [This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 07 February 2001 at 01:46 AM.] |
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Tele Member Posts: 965 |
posted 07 February 2001 07:13 AM
Congratulations B0B !!! keep us updated, reminds me that I should have bought your old X-over back then...stupid me Andy |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 07 February 2001 08:08 AM
We wanna see pictures, puhleeeze, pictures!! |
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Marco Schouten Member Posts: 920 |
posted 07 February 2001 08:42 AM
Congratulations B0b, I'm sure you're going to enjoy every minute with your new 'bride'. ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 07 February 2001 09:03 AM
Maybe I can take some pictures tomorrow. Here's my report so far... The Lawrence 710 pickup sounds great, and the Williams tone control is perfect for backing off that full bore edge. ------------------ [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 07 February 2001 at 09:05 AM.] |
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Doug Seymour Member Posts: 785 |
posted 07 February 2001 09:46 AM
Bobby, shame on you! You didn't say one word about the most unique feature of your new Williams! The cross-over! Does it work? Can you compare it to the ShoBud cross-over mechanism you sold awhile back? [This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 07 February 2001 at 09:47 AM.] |
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Doug Seymour Member Posts: 785 |
posted 07 February 2001 09:55 AM
Bobby, another thing, you mentioned your "crazy dream" that Bill made come true. It's no "crazy dream"! A working cross-over is the greatest idea that ever happened to a D10 steel! Both tunings right in front of you with the pedal & knee lever ease of a single neck! |
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Michael Johnstone Member Posts: 2535 |
posted 07 February 2001 10:15 AM
Bob- Try raising your 9th string(D)to D# on your E-F raise lever.When I played a D-10,I had this change and combined w/the A pedal,it provides among other things,a diatonic scale across the 10th thru 6th strings.The change can easily be defeated by lowering the 9th string with another lever as long as that other lever is not on the same knee and the guitar will split.My MSA just happened to split that change perfectly.BTW,as a Sierra owner who ALMOST bought a Williams instead,I'd be interested to hear how the Willy compares to your Sierra. -MJ- |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 07 February 2001 11:26 AM
The crossover works well, as expected. The pedal action feels slightly less direct because of the increased parts count, but remember that I'm comparing it to my last D-10 which was a Marlen push-pull! The pedal action really isn't much different from my Sierra Session. It's really hard to compare a small D-10 with a large SD-12, Michael. They are both excellent instruments, but there are different design philosophies. The Williams has a short scale and a very compact body. The Sierra has a long scale and is very spacious. The keyless Sierra is longer than the keyed Williams! The pedals on the Sierra are further apart. The images of the two instruments are radically different. The Williams looks very traditional with its wood finish. This will be good for playing with the Country All-Stars. The mica-covered Sierra looks more futuristic, more industrial. I suspect that I'll continue using it when I play with bands that do a lot of rock. The Extended E9th is more suited for rock than a D-10, in my opinion anyway. (No flames, please!) I am going to pull the copedents of the two more in sync, though. I really like some of the pulls on the Williams E9th neck. ------------------ [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 07 February 2001 at 11:29 AM.] |
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Steve Feldman Member Posts: 2983 |
posted 07 February 2001 11:55 AM
-b0b-:You might want to check and see if any of your back neck wiring is pinching. A short there will kill the signal dead. Happened to me before I traced it out. |
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Rick Schmidt Member Posts: 1596 |
posted 07 February 2001 12:39 PM
Bob....just out of curiosity, did you & Bill ever talk over the idea of a D12 ( or 12+10, 12+11 etc.)? Was that just too much to think about for one or both parties at this point of the brainstorming process? I tell you, all these new idea's going around the forum (i.e. your's & Carl D.'s) have really got the mad scientist in me all lathered up. BTW guys....I know of a really good deal on a "fixer upper" Baldwin crossover if anyone's interested in old clanky technology. [This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 07 February 2001 at 12:42 PM.] |
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Jim Smith Member Posts: 6399 |
posted 07 February 2001 12:54 PM
Rick, Tele's looking over in Buy and Sell: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum3/HTML/006504.html |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 07 February 2001 01:24 PM
Now that he's made the first one, Bill thinks that the crossover can work with any number of strings and with keyless guitars. He's a master of getting a lot of stuff into a small space. I wasn't real interested in anything but a D-10 for this purchase, though. I have the functionality of 10 pedals and 10 knee levers, on a 5+5 instrument. I think this will keep me busy for quite a while! ------------------ |
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Graham Member Posts: 1270 |
posted 07 February 2001 01:55 PM
'bout due for a signature change now, b0b! Congratulations on the new guitar. ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 07 February 2001 07:08 PM
Thanks for the reminder, Graham!  ------------------ |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick Member Posts: 1234 |
posted 07 February 2001 07:40 PM
b0b: Congratulations. Williams are the equal of any guitar out there (IMO). Mine is 10 years old. Nothing wears on these things. They are workhorses. Bill keeps asking me when I am going to order a new one. I told him by the time I need a new one, He'll probably be too old to build it. I know you will enjoy this guitar. Welcome to the family. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 08 February 2001 04:55 PM
The rear pickup problem is fixed. Some jarring in transit caused a short under the pickup. I loosened the pickup mounting screws and it came to life. It stayed alive when I tightened them back down. I'll investigate further when I change strings. Right now I want to play, not tinker! ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 11 February 2001 11:19 AM
David Philips came over after his gig last night. We picked on the new Williams 400X guitar and compared/contrasted it with my Sierra Session SD-12. David also owns a Williams and a Sierra, though they are both older models. The differences between these instruments is startling! The Williams has a traditional appearance, but it's smaller than most D-10s. The Sierra is futuristic looking and massive. I think it's safe to say that every part on the Sierra is bigger and heavier than the corresponding part on the Williams. Both instruments sound great. The Williams is brighter sounding, so I have to turn down the treble on my amp from my normal (Sierra) settings. If it was my only pedal steel, I probably wouldn't notice that. Both instruments are beautiful to behold. The lacquer finish on the Williams is incredible, though. It really makes you feel good to play something so warm and rich looking. The pedals on the Williams are harder to push but, to be fair, the Sierra's pedals were pretty stiff when I first got it. I've had 4 years to tinker with the Sierra to get it feeling real comfortable. I expect the Williams will improve with age as I tweak the leverages. The tunable splits on the Williams work like a dream. Split tuning wasn't available on the Sierra when I bought it, so I have a couple of little gadgets that attach to the changer to do splits. I like that feature so much on the Williams that I added the Bb lever to the Sierra yesterday. I plan to have Sierra add the "real" split tuning bar to my guitar next time I'm up in Oregon. The crossover mechanism on the Williams does make the pedals feel a little less direct. Also, David noticed that while the Sierra pedals maintain a constant amount of pressure throughout their travel, the Williams seems to require more pressure towards the end of the pedal travel. We're not sure what causes this - it might be the difference in changer design. Underneath, there is a lot more space on the Sierra. The Williams crossover requires an extra crossbar for each pedal, so there are a total of 20 for the 5+5 copedents. The Sierra is currently 5+6 so it only has 11 crossbars. But beyond that, the Sierra has more space between the front apron and the first string's bellcranks, and it had more space between necks when it used to be a double neck. As I expected, the crossover makes the back neck much more comfortable to play. It works well and doesn't seem to add any excess noise to the operation of the guitar. The manufacturing tolerences seem to be very close, making the transition consistant for all of the pedals and levers. There's nothing to compare the crossover with, except the old Sho-Buds. Actually there's no comparison - the Williams 400x is smooth working, modern machine. The Sho-Bud crossover never came close. I want to thank David for his visit. It was really a lot of fun to compare these two instruments with someone who knows all the issues. ------------------ |
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Ron Whitworth Member Posts: 757 |
posted 11 February 2001 03:36 PM
Hello b0b; Congrat's on the new guitar!!.Sounds like another giant step for the pedal steel!! Maybe Bill should consider naming this new series of guitar the "Forum Special"..Who knows;it could really catch on. Have fun & enjoy your new toy....Ron Also b0b; we are ALL still waiting on detailed pictures!!!!!!!....Ron [This message was edited by Ron Whitworth on 11 February 2001 at 03:37 PM.] |
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David Phillips Member Posts: 141 |
posted 12 February 2001 01:11 PM
Bobby, Thanks for letting me come visit you after my gig Saturday night (about 11:30 pm). Your new guitar is stunning. And the Sierra also felt and sounded great. I agree with the points you've mentioned and will add that I think the pedals felt approximately the same in regards to directness to my 1989/99 Williams 14st. Bill is really onto something here. It was great to visit with you. We will have to do it again. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 15 February 2001 11:20 AM
I'm a lousy photographer. Of 25 pictures, these are the best I could come up with.  ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 15 February 2001 11:29 AM
Here's the whole batch from the Kodak PhotoDisk: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 |
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Rodney Shuffler Member Posts: 593 |
posted 15 February 2001 12:02 PM
Wow!!! What else can you say? I think anyone would be real proud to own that....does the cat play too? Or were you thinkin' of goin' to cat gut strings for that old timey sound. Rod------------------ |
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Graham Member Posts: 1270 |
posted 15 February 2001 01:34 PM
Mighty fine looking guitar, b0b!! Thanks for posting the pics. ------------------ |
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Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 15 February 2001 01:43 PM
OH Man; I love that color of your Williams b0b. That is one Mighty Fine steel(as Graham said it so well). Ricky |
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forrest klott Member Posts: 419 |
posted 15 February 2001 01:51 PM
WOW!!!! WAY TOO COOL!!!  |
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Marco Schouten Member Posts: 920 |
posted 15 February 2001 03:03 PM
It just looks great B0b! By the way, picture 22, did your cat borrow your beard?????? ------------------ |
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Steve Stallings Member Posts: 2065 |
posted 15 February 2001 07:18 PM
Wow! That is way too cool Bob. How does this compare to his regular prices? I love the finish on this guitar. ------------------ |
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Chuck Martin Member Posts: 259 |
posted 15 February 2001 07:54 PM
Great guitar bOb! Did you already post the copedent for this wonder or did I just miss it in the pile of replies? The idea of having easier to reach pedals for both necks is very appealing. I have a '99 Williams D-10 and can vouch for Bill's build quality; first rate all the way. I wonder if he's going to make this a "regular" model? |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 15 February 2001 10:03 PM
The model is called the Series 400X, and the price was either $400 or $500 above the Series 400 price. Mine is the first production model. There was a prototype built before it to get the bugs out of the mechanism. I've been switching around the copedent a bit, and it still isn't quite final. It's too big of a chart to put in a Forum message, so click here to see the latest. ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee - email: 
This doesn't hurt my overall impression of the guitar, but it was disappointing that I couldn't play the back neck last night. I'm not sure what's wrong. The guitar probably took a big hit in shipping that broke the switch or a wire or something. Frustrating... UPS.
