posted 23 May 2001 01:56 PM         

Truer words were NEVER spoken. And this goes for ANY knowledge. Aquired knowledge surrounded with Wisdom is what caused man to have NOT stayed a cave man!!!!

I am delighted that Sir Isaac Newton was more interested in why an apple fell to the ground than he was eating the apple.

I am equally delighted that Bejamin Franklin was more interested in lightning striking his kite (with a key) than he was in flying the kite.

Some only one to use something. That is fine. But others create what those people use. More importantly they constantly strive to make what those people use, better.

God bless you all,

carl

posted 23 May 2001 02:50 PM         

quote:

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Nearly all of my best playing experiences have been outdoor gigs. Ah, California!!!

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posted 24 May 2001 06:26 AM         

I really appreciate all of the replies from people in different states, and from locations around the world. It is nothing short of an enjoyable avenue to express a new idea, where it will not be disregarded. At the end of summer, I fully intend to embark on a new concept, that will include building a new steel guitar which will be built of materials known to resist expansion, contraction, distortion, warping, and etc. I will make every effort to retard the unruly characteristics of guitar strings, as we know them. Steel is known by industries that its expansion properties do exist. Some form of substitution is in order to reduce the detuning dilemma as it relates to the steel guitar. I have been thinking in terms of a heating element within the main body of the steel guitar, to act as a countermeasure to assist in decreasing the troubling aspect of pitches moving away from the levels of previous adjustments. The many trips to our libraries, consulting with knowledgeable people, including those who have worked as technical engineers, machinists, draftspersons, etc., will keep me busy this coming autumn season.
The steel guitar provides those who are musically inclined, with one of life's greatest pleasures. Its rare qualities which are brought forth through practice will reward each newcomer with years of musical enjoyment. Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 24 May 2001 at 06:29 AM.]

posted 24 May 2001 07:19 AM         

This is not to say that the steel builders do not know what they are doing, just that I don't think the approach of assembling "experts" in the various disciplines and then collaborating on a scientific steel has ever been attempted. Who knows what will come out of it. It could be technically superior in design and materials but not be practical or cost prohibitive and then again it may be the missing breakthrough in mechanical stability.

posted 24 May 2001 08:52 AM         

Individual strings need different scale lengths to tune accurately across the fretboard because of the way a piano is stretch tuned. Tempering is why the guitar and bass need an adjustable bridge. The adjustable bridge creates different scale lengths for individual strings to better blend with the piano in all octaves.

Here is where the lights should switch on. The steel is not a tempered instrument because it cannot temper scale lengths according to the string gauge as does the guitar, bass, and piano. The bar is used for tempering and that tempering is done by ear and that is why we have so many unique and inherent problems.

An adjustable bridge is the only way to make the steel guitar a truly tempered instrument. Then we could all use a one way fits all solution for tuning.

When someone develops the adjustable bridge for steel guitars many of our unique and inherent tuning problems will simply vanish.

Unfortunately, the bridge is not the place to vary the scale lengths on a pedal guitar. That would cause too many other mechanical tuning problems. The steel guitars scale adjustments will have to be accomplished from the other end, at the key head.

Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 24 May 2001 at 08:55 AM.]

posted 24 May 2001 01:51 PM         

Thank you for your interesting input!! I respect, and value highly the message that you forwarded which relates to the original thread. I can only hope for a continuation of your knowledgeable inner resources, of which I hold in high esteem. Bill Hankey

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 25 May 2001 at 05:58 AM.]

posted 25 May 2001 09:01 AM         

To the best of my recollection the brass rivets aren't anything special and I believe were the same as MSA used. We had a flaring machine with an adjustable stop to ensure that they were all done the same.

To me the most "interesting" part of the changer is the changer finger itself. Rather than use aluminum with it's propensity to get scratched and gouged by the strings, Bob DeKam designed a stamped metal finger with a fold-over tab to hold the string. Spot welded to that was a round cylinder that the string rides on. All we had to do was a quick sand and buff then send them out to be chromed. I've played my D-12 for over 20 years and it still shows absolutely no signs of wear.

------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@home.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-12 (soon to be U-13) 8&5 (so far)=-

posted 25 May 2001 11:36 AM         

quote:

---

An adjustable bridge is the only way to make the steel guitar a truly tempered instrument. Then we could all use a one way fits all solution for tuning.

When someone develops the adjustable bridge for steel guitars many of our unique and inherent tuning problems will simply vanish.

Unfortunately, the bridge is not the place to vary the scale lengths on a pedal guitar. That would cause too many other mechanical tuning problems. The steel guitars scale adjustments will have to be accomplished from the other end, at the key head.

---

perhaps a revision of assumption of where the changer needs to be to accomplish the pulls...
watching forumite BobG playing a Lefty Williams the other night has given me an idea :

put the changer at the current NUT position (fret zero), and put an horizontally adjustable roller nut at the PICKUP end of the guitar...
this might avail the advantages Paul has described...
Hmmmmmmm?
(c) David Van Allen 2001

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 25 May 2001 at 11:38 AM.]

posted 26 May 2001 08:03 AM         

I was not aware of the fact that DEKLEY used glues to eliminate the possibility of either of the two 10/32 machine screws backing off from their seats in the 3/32 stamped plate. That little tip tipped the scales in my favor. I had previously tried to remove them through ordinary procedures; without success. The shallow recesses of the Phillips type screws prevented me from using any force, because of the bonding material. After reading your reply, I picked up the DEKLEY universal changer, and went directly to my bench. It was there that I was able come to terms with Bob DeKam's creation. Maybe the use of Allen screws which would facilitate getting a real grip with the Allen wrench,( which was developed first in 1943, during the 2nd World War, in Hartford, Ct,) would have been very helpful in this application. Bob D. could have entertained the notion that the need for ever having to remove the screws was close to nil, and if the need arose, the work would be placed in the hands of someone who would treat it as another day, another dollar. Once I learned that the threads were cemented, I used my mini- socking machine to demonstrate a bit of persuasion. This was done pursuant to your advice. After their removal I proceded to dismantle the changer at the pillow blocks. I was a little surprised to learn that Bob D. had selected a 1/2" cross shaft in an attempt to thwart distortion; brought about by a significant amount of string exertion. He utilized a nonmagnetic round stock (stainless steel) which inhibits rusting, while the changer fingers are made from magnetic steel, which is subject to mass rusting, or rapid oxidation, if left in areas of extreme dampness. I learned many things by removing the pillow blocks, and observing the parts at close range. Would you care to elaborate upon those plated, donut style heavy washers that the strings rest on? They show 3 fastening points to Bob Dekam's string holder. You referred to welding, as the means used to fasten the two parts. Is it possible that he moved on to small steel pins, using a press to force the pins in place? If not, the spot weld looks great. Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 26 May 2001 at 08:10 AM.]