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Are we hocus-pocussing with hodge- podge tuning methods ? (Page 1)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Are we hocus-pocussing with hodge- podge tuning methods ? (Page 1)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Are we hocus-pocussing with hodge- podge tuning methods ? |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 19 May 2001 02:32 PM
After tuning "open" according to a variety of proffered settings, the whole scheme blossoms out to present a new set of problems once the bar is held firmly at the twelfth fret. Each steel guitar fret represents its very own tuning inconsistencies, due to the different influences brought about when pressure is exerted on the strings. Aberrations are the most prevalent at midpoint of the fret board. Bill H. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 19 May 2001 05:23 PM
If it bothers you, tune at the 12th fret. Or at the 7th fret. |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 19 May 2001 06:38 PM
Bobby L. A somewhat different discrepancy arises should you attempt to tune at the 12th fret. To begin with, it is doubtful if anyone has the ability to place the bar exactly on the 12th fret, therefore a quandary more problematic than tuning open, would occur. Of course, we are seeking an acceptable level of intonation. Otherwise there is no objective involved, should one hasten to randomly dismiss a scrutinized approach in the attempt to bring the instrument to proper pitch. Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 20 May 2001 at 12:16 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 20 May 2001 at 08:03 AM.] |
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Sage Member Posts: 525 |
posted 19 May 2001 06:39 PM
Are we pigldy wigldy doing hodge podge hocus pocusing? YES  . I suggest you read this one Bill, and then get back to us- http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/001945.html [This message was edited by Sage on 19 May 2001 at 06:40 PM.] |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 19 May 2001 09:28 PM
I have never knowingly worried about what bar pressure* does to the relative open tuning. From my experience it seems that when the guitar sounded out of tune it sounded out of tune at any fret as well as at the open strings. And the converse was true. When it sounded good at the open fret it always seemed to sound good at any fret. My problem is I have never been able to get all combinations of strings, pedals, and knee levers at ANY fret in tune to my liking. But the bar pressure concept does make me wonder. Not sure what conclusions I can draw from it though. * I do know that the 10th string on the C neck and the 11th and 12th strings on my U-12 have to be tuned open quite a bit flat of the tuner. I always assumed this was due to bar pressure pulling them sharp. But never noticed any other strings being affected. carl |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 20 May 2001 03:27 AM
Bruce Bouton, on his basic Video talks about tuning and also mentions checking it at several points up the neck. I never noticed any difference, myself, at different points on the neck. Like Carl, if it is in tune open (no pedals) it will be in tune at other points. I am not obsessed with tuning as some are. I've seen guys that tune and tune and tune and tune. When you are on a job, you have to "tune and go". Obviously I want it in tune, but I can't spend an hour tuning. There's a lot of jobs that anything over 5 minutes to tune is a luxury. |
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Lindley Member Posts: 247 |
posted 20 May 2001 03:48 AM
I have learned that being "nearly" in tune is as close as a steel guitar will ever be. I have alse learned that if what I am playing is being played right, "nearly" is close enough. As for the rest of what Bill said, as soon as I get my dictionary, I'll think about it. ------------------ |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 20 May 2001 04:24 AM
Hi Carl, Thank you for stating that the inherent tuning problems do exist. Someone once said, "For every action, there is a reaction." We lose the corresponding values of "open" tunings, once the bar placement goes into effect. A number of players notably do not place the bar parallel to the frets, others tilt the bar to reduce friction, and to allow themselves to scurry in and out of scale patterns. To simplify the concept, pick up a Spanish guitar, then subject it to the abuses that it would undergo in the hands of someone who doggedly tries to to produce something "new" by stretching strings to the breaking point, and when the action is much to high, the desired note on fret positions is always sharp. I point this out because, it is related to the problem of habitually playing the steel guitar while out of pitch. Carry out an experiment of your own.(if you have access to work bench) by utilizing a small frame, an electrical pickup, two guitar strings of different gauges, two tuner keys and a measuring device. You would want the small frame to correspond to your steel guitar bridge span. All of this to determine what the varying degrees of different pitches are when an equal amount of pressure is applied to guitar strings of different gauges. This experiment would be worthwhile to find actual proof of what takes place when an instrumentalist performs. Bill H. |
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Ed Miller Jr Member Posts: 102 |
posted 20 May 2001 07:08 AM
Okay,This is a dumb question from a guitar tech/luthier so please hear me out. Is this an intonation that could be solved with something like an intonation adjustable bridge? Due to the changer mechanism I would put it at the nut ala Stelling banjo. But would that take care of intonation problems relative to the string gauges? If you measure the scale on a guitar you will find that the only one that is ..say 25-1/2" is the first string.The saddle is made to resolve the rest of the strings to the first one. If some one were to create an individual roller nut that could be slid back and forth to correct the octave differences and then be locked into place wouldn't that solve the problem? Also, since you are compensating string guages; wouldn't that also relieve the problems from raising or lowering the string pitches? I guess in my mind it sounds like we're trying to compensate different string gauges relative to each other by tuning some a little sharp, and others a little flat. Why do that if you can compensate the scale length like any other instrument and be done with it. I haven't tried this. Banjo string gauges aren't as drastic a difference as PSG, this is just a theory. Maybe a fixed roller nut and ajustable roller bridge with the changer behind ther bridge would be nescessary to do the job, and already it sounds like it could suck the sustain right out of it. Ed |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 20 May 2001 08:05 AM
The pedal steel does not have the same set of problems a fretted instrument does. The compensation at the nut - as was done with the old MicroFret guitar with an adjustable nut on the 3rd (G) string isn't really necessary on a steel. A pedal steel, in effect, has a moveable nut, with the bar acting as the nut. Even if there was some compensation at the open string nut, it would only be applicable to open strings. Once the bar was placed at any point on the guitar the nut no longer is in the picture. Again, tuning goes back to Bill's other thread and the fact there is no magic one size fits all tuning method. Each steel, even two basically identical steels from the same builder, will have it's own variation so that it is in tune with it'self. And finally, I find myself posting on these types of questions, but I do not see all the "hocus-pocus" or "hodge-podge". You tune your guitar and go on, don't let tuning consume you. There is more to life than worrying about either a real or imagined micro difference in tuning a guitar. |
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Larry Bell Member Posts: 4116 |
posted 20 May 2001 08:16 AM
I guess I must've just decided early on not to obsess over something I couldn't control. Some guitars and mechanisms are better than others but the fact remains that the old 'Buds and Emmons' had all manner of problems and I never once heard Jimmy or Buddy sound out of tune on ANYTHING I ever heard them play. The skill of the player contributes more to playing in tune than all the contraptions and electronic measurement devices known to man. Just my opinion. LTB |
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Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
posted 20 May 2001 08:44 AM
I once managed to get my guitar perfectly in tune. Then, the band started accompaning me. Oh well... Here's a truism about playing with twin (or triple) fiddles: When one fiddle is out of tune, they're ALL out of tune. ------------------ |
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Scott Moon Member Posts: 182 |
posted 20 May 2001 09:11 AM
I resemble that remark Herb!!! Scott |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 20 May 2001 09:15 AM
Hi Ed Miller Jr., Your reply to my thread was exceedingly interesting. It is obvious that your work as a luthier would enable you to grasp, and read into some of the more difficult problems associated with proper intonation. Your basic forte lies within the selection of sound materials that provide qualities which enable you to produce the instruments of great satisfaction. Of course, I am surmising all of this, but I would certainly like to hear more about your work. I have my doubts about the success of making tuning difficulties history by turning to alterations near or around bridges. I am thinking more in terms of a sensor combined with automation. The answer lies there, or at least in that arena. Bill Hankey |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 20 May 2001 09:32 AM
A bit of trivia: A few years back the late Ron Lashley (of Emmons' Co) called me and asked me to video Buddy Charleton for a possible video course. Unfortunately it never made it to that end. But I have the raw footage and even the jam session later with Buddy and Larry Sasser playing some fantastic stuff. It was recoreded on Sony's first home digital camera and the sound and video quality is superb. Later I was teaching a student bar control and happened to put this video on to show a master do it, and the student was amazed at how perfectly Buddy (and Larry) placed and moved the bar while playing. Not only was it directly over the fret but it was dead straight. And it did not matter how quickly Buddy moved the bar from place to place, when he stopped at a given fret, he was always dead on. Or at least it appeared so in the video. My point being that great steel players like great trombonists and Chello players, etc. have achieved what to some might be the impossible. And that is to be able to rapidly locate a bar or finger at an exact place regardless of how quickly or often they need to go to a given place. I have the utmost respect for players like Buddy Charleton and many others. What they have done is truly almost a miracle. And yet they often do it as though it was totally effortless. God bless Buddy Charleton, Larry Sasser and all of you, carl |
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Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
posted 20 May 2001 10:32 AM
Scott I was referring to another fiddle player, my friend!!  This might be a hard one to get out of!!! ------------------ |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 20 May 2001 11:46 AM
Hi Carl, Wouldn't it be fitting if anyone should ask, how do they do the things they do so well? This in response to your reply that Buddy Emmons, Larry Sasser, and Buddy Charleton play right on the fret. One might go further with this truism, and wonder; how can this be? Did they practice more than others? It's doubtful considering every aspect in that regard. Were they more fortunate in obtaining musical equipment whenever they wished to do so? All of these questions, and any similar inquiries, can be answered by simply stating; no!! What they do possess is the same qualities that is seen in very young children who tend to be precocious. That is why Buddy Emmons for one, was light years ahead of a given number of average players early in his career. Only Buddy knows how he overtook the obstacles in bygone years. I'd say a double helping of talent is not too far off base. I attended the Everly Bros. show in W. Springfield's Big E grounds, a number of years ago. I was elated when the possibility of meeting him, became a reality. Bill Hankey |
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Peter Dollard Member Posts: 705 |
posted 20 May 2001 11:58 AM
I think tuning as an intellectual idea is very dangerous because you are looking for numbers and procedures and not proper placement of your hands. Jeff Newman once showed me the different flat spots on all his different guitars yet he had no trouble adjusting to each and playing them in tune. I know that you need a reference point that you feel comfortable with but the simple truth is there is no perfect method. My wife once remarked that I been playing steel for ten years and tuning it for twenty and she is right;I did waste all sorts of time. It was only after I accepted the detuning on all guitars that I was able to focus less on it and actually play the thing. Peter [This message was edited by Peter Dollard on 20 May 2001 at 12:00 PM.] [This message was edited by Peter Dollard on 20 May 2001 at 02:32 PM.] |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 20 May 2001 03:58 PM
Hi Peter D., If you really want to rock the boat, try this experiment.You will need your tuner to get the effect. Don't fuss over the accuracy of bringing your steel to a proper pitch. Close will be fine in this enlightening trial run. Ask to borrow the hair dryer, and from a safe distance so as to prevent damaging your steel's finish, allow the warm air to float over the strings. Watch your tuner as the guitar drops hopelessly out of tune. This is a dramatized version of the real external influences and serves to show whomever in part the vague and silent effects of what warm and cool temps. can do. On second thought, please use a cheap tag sale Spanish guitar in place of your steel for the hair dryer test. I don't want to lose sleep worrying that something went wrong with the test. If you choose not to use the hair dryer, pinch a single treble string between your fingers, go back and forth, until the needle indicator goes flat, dropping flat to the far left. Bill Hankey [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 21 May 2001 at 02:54 AM.] |
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 20 May 2001 05:39 PM
Bill, You have such unique insights it makes me wonder about your experience as a pedalsteel player. It would be great to hear about some of the music you play. I would also like to know what your academic background is. Particularly how your studies relate to the nature of sound and our perception of it. What are your favorite books about that stuff ? thanks, Bob [This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 20 May 2001 at 06:05 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 20 May 2001 07:16 PM
I set up on the south side of the gazebo in Sebastopol this morning, in the sun, for the 10AM show. About 15 minutes later I checked the tuning and everything was about 10 cents sharp. I tuned and played the first set without any problems. As the sun rose higher in the sky, the shadow of the roof crept across my strings. At the end of the second set I could feel that the suoth side of the instrument was hot to the touch, and the north side was cool. Half of the guitar was in the shade. I tuned up again at the beginning of the third set. At this point only a third of the guitar was in the sun. The guitar had gone flat. Round about the 4th song the head of the guitar went into the shade. I had to retune during an intro. The whole guitar had gone wacky out of tune - some strings sharp and others flat. Then Bob Shilling showed up just in time to hear me play the last half-hour perfectly in tune! Thanks Bob!------------------ |
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BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
posted 20 May 2001 09:10 PM
The answer to the question posed at the title of this thread Bill, The answer is a resounding YES! It is! Bobbe See you soon Bill,I can't wait! |
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Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 20 May 2001 10:57 PM
How you tune and playing in tune have nothing to do with each other. Playing in tune can only be obtained one way> "Training your ear". Now if you are tuning your guitar a certain way; and working on training your ear also; you will notice as your ear is progressing towards good intonation; your tuning methods will change. One very good training method to progress your ear's intonation qualities; is by working/playing with a fixed tone. As your ear progresses; so will your movements with the bar hand; and the quickness of the adjustments one makes while playing the steel guitar. One gig I had both my pedal and non-pedal steel set up. Tommy Morrell came up and played my non-pedal as I played my pedal steel. My non-pedal was out of tune open and was quite obvious; as Tom strummed through the open strings to hear the intervals for each tuning I had on the Triple. He never touched a tuner; and proceeded to play with perfect intonation>lightening fast>and slow and beautiful; it didn't matter> his intonation was perfect throughout every thing he played. I had a long conversation(well as long as you can hold his interest(ha....)>with Tommy on this very subject. He basically invited me to practice training my ear; and not to worry about the tuning method; and after time; the tuning proceedure will be just a quick duty, to get ready to play "In Tune". We watch players of this caliber play; and it seems so effortless in their positions and going to and from them. In actuality; they hear the intonation of every string and every position, before they get there; and the adjustments or sooooooo quick> to us it looks dead on. But believe me they are making the adjustments for the tuning of the guitar; simply because their "Ear" hears it before it happens; because of either natural intonation or aquired intonation from "Ear Training". Have fun.
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 21 May 2001 07:54 AM
Hello Bobby L., The account given by you of your day in the sun, is for my reading pleasure,one of the most interesting to date. Every detail of what happens to a steel guitar should it be placed precariously under the damaging sun, is explained by you. I draw the line when a host or band leader opts to park my steel under the blazing sun. A simple solution to this multifarious situation, is an umbrella, of your choice. I have managed to escape on several occasions to avoid old Sol's hidden side affects, and the " Wolf in sheep's clothing" attitude of anyone who without regard expects a steel guitarist to go against one's better judgment.
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 21 May 2001 10:18 AM
Hi Bobbe S., Thank you for your reply. The tuning perplexities can be resolved in time by sheer determination, and by showing a zealous approach to the problems. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 21 May 2001 at 10:20 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 21 May 2001 at 10:23 AM.] |
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Bill Ferguson Member Posts: 1391 |
posted 21 May 2001 10:25 AM
I'm with Bobbye Seymour and that is why my signature says: Bill ------------------ |
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 21 May 2001 10:39 AM
Bill H., quote: Ricky Davis has solved the problem. Unfortunatly it involves actually playing the pedalsteel. BTW: I'm still wondering about your experience as a steel player and what research you have done into the nature of sound and how it relates to modern concepts of tonality. Bob |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 21 May 2001 03:11 PM
Bob Hoffnar, I have been fascinated with metals for as long as I can remember. I've studied first hand how all of the common metals react when they are subjected to hot and cold treatment. Yellow or red brass is an interesting study to undertake. Silversmiths found great profits by using the alloyed brass and copper as the mother metal, then proceeded to apply a thin coat of sterling silver. WE live in society where plastic has replaced basic metals. I cite plastic wheel covers as a good example. This subject matter would fill a hundred pound book, for the sake of those who would enjoy delving into it. At the present time I am very interested in the steel guitar, and would enjoy sending you a tape of one of listed selections. Please choose one of the list. These are a few examples, that come to [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 21 May 2001 at 06:13 PM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 21 May 2001 at 06:17 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 21 May 2001 03:23 PM
Bill Hankey, The only real problem was when the steel went out of tune in the middle of the set. I knew it was happening, and was not surprised by it. Thanks to the electronic tuner, I was able to tune silently during a guitar intro. I did get a pretty harsh sunburn, but I really enjoyed the gig! All things considered it was very worthwhile. ------------------ |
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Bill Hamner Member Posts: 258 |
posted 22 May 2001 01:15 AM
Bobbe, It's great to see that you still use a common sense approach to solving a problem and haven't let that PHD interfere.Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a person seeking as much formal education as he can.I got a BS in mechanical engineering and often asked myself why I didn't go ahead and get a masters( When I really stop to think about it I know the answer. I needed to reverse my cash flow situation immediately at the time that decision had to be made.) On a different note I totally agree with Bill Ferguson's philosophy and think we all would be wise to give more thought to his words of wisdom. Bill |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 22 May 2001 07:02 AM
Jack S. Thanks for your informative input on The Steel Guitar Forum. I think it is very useful to others who can build a new series of thoughts from the points that you make about technical issues. Chuck Sherman gave me a pamphlet which advertised The Micro- Fret Spanish Guitars; in 1978. Chuck plays one of Shot Jackson's single 12 creations. His winters are spent in Florida, and summers find him in Maine. He travels by boat up the Atlantic Coast. He has kept me informed through the past winter on gigs, musicians, nightclubs, etc. One letter was hand written in fine print, with a total of 16 pages. His input on sound management is very informative. |
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Carson Leighton Member Posts: 254 |
posted 22 May 2001 07:21 AM
HODGE PODGE, HOCUS-POCUS. I don't think so. If our forefathers had thought that way, we wouldn't have equal temperament, meantone or any or method of tuning. I believe that we can spend too much time tuning and not enough time practicing, but there is nothing wrong with searching for a new method of tuning. There are a lot of temperament problems associated with the steel guitar, especially with so many different tunings and copedants. If Bobby Lee or anyone else can open a few doors to make it easier, then it's alright by me. Buddy Emmons told me that "every time I get one door open, another one closes and that's why I tune straight up". Truer words were never spoken concerning this subject. Let's not give up on this and maybe someday we will find a method or system we can all use to make the whole thing easier.......Carson [This message was edited by Carson Leighton on 22 May 2001 at 08:21 AM.] |
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Scott Moon Member Posts: 182 |
posted 22 May 2001 08:01 AM
Herb! Just pullin yer chain! LMAO!!! Scott |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 22 May 2001 08:36 AM
Carson L. Thank you for your input, and a special [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 22 May 2001 at 08:43 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 22 May 2001 at 08:51 AM.] |
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chris ivey Member Posts: 1105 |
posted 22 May 2001 09:33 AM
and once you get it pretty much to where you can stand it you still have to deal with the age old definition of a true half-step....'a fiddle and a steel playing in unison'! |
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Bob Shilling Member Posts: 469 |
posted 22 May 2001 03:32 PM
b0b, Well, I ust got around to reading this topic two days later. Maybe it's good I got there late, but you and the band sounded great when I got there. A pleasant way to spend Sunday for anyone who lives nearby. Check b0b's gig schedule. I had commneted on your nice shady spot in relation to the tuning problem, and you mentioned it didn't start out that way. No doubt we've all played in the sun at some time or other. (see my web page for evidence.) BTW, most of the farmers had torn down by the time you left, so I guess that's why it's such an early gig. Amd Bill H., of course the guitar is always out of tune when I pack it up and move it. It seems to be temperature related, because usually all the strings are off by approximately the same amount. But the MSA holds a tuning (other than temperature effects) REALLY well. ------------------ |
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Carson Leighton Member Posts: 254 |
posted 22 May 2001 05:40 PM
Bill H. First, let me say that what I posted was certainly not meant to be in a sarcastic manner. I hope you didn't take it that way. I was merely referring to methods of tuning, rather than the instrument staying in tune. Personally, I have never seen a stringed instrument stay in tune for a long period of time, especially if there is much of a temperature or a humidity change. Emmons certainly has a way with words, doesn't he? I have run into the same type of tuning problems myself, so I know what he is saying and I think a lot of other steel players experience these same problems, or this topic wouldn't keep showing up on the forum. I don't know of any way to tune mathematically or scientifically correct. All any of us can really do is try to make the instrument sound good. I do believe that because of this forum, some light has been shed on the subject. I also believe that more musicians are understanding what equal temperament and just intonation really is. There is no other instrument that I know of where so much demand is on intonation. We are constantly dealing with it with every move we make, and as much as it is an integrated part of our playing, we are always aware of it, unlike some other instruments. As far as my steel going out of tune, well of course it does. However, if I let it warm up to room temperature, and the temperatue doesn't change too much, I hardly have to touch it. I keep my instruments well maintained. To say that I would never have to retune it, would be foolish. The thing is, I always use the same temperament, so it only takes a minute or so.......Regards, Carson |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 22 May 2001 06:25 PM
Carson L. Your reply is very much appreciated. I am delighted to have heard from you from the north country. I have a friend by the name of Louis Melanson, in Canada. Have you ever heard of him in your travels? He has a large collection of country music tapes. He plays a modified keyless Sho-Bud. It's a miserable situation to keep a steel guitar tuned if the temperature is 29 degrees F. and the wind is blowing sharply from the north, while playing an outside Block Dance. I did this once in Otis, MA. at the Fire Station, in August, of '84. At that time I was equipped with a light attached to my steel. Lucky for me, because that light was mounted just above my hands. After each song I would warm my hands on the surface of the 15 watt elongated bulb. My steel was chilled throughout, but somehow I managed to play out the gig. I've played many other gigs outdoors, and had to battle the mosquitoes as well as the tuning aspect of the job. These memories I sorted out, to relate what is involved when a person undertakes to set out with steel guitar in hand. Best regards, Bill Hankey |
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Carson Leighton Member Posts: 254 |
posted 23 May 2001 06:19 AM
Bill H. Of all the outside gigs I've done, only a few have been what I would call a near pleasant experience. It was either too hot or too cold and at one place the mosquitos were terrible. On that occasion I think I actually spent more time killing mosquitos than I did playing. The worst of it was when I had to do a steel break and they would be biting on both hands. I played some notes that I didn't know existed! It's hard to keep a stringed instrument in tune outside, unless the conditions are very favorable. I know a lot of people like to play outside, but I'll take inside any day, unless the temperature is about 80F with just a nice warm breeze to help keep the bugs away. Of course I would want would to be in the shade too, if possible. I don't know the gentleman you mentioned, but his name does ring a bell. Could you tell me what province he lives in? Regards, Carson |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 23 May 2001 07:00 AM
Readers of the post, Have any of you ever heard the name of a Spanish guitar constructor named Manuel De La Chica? He was from Barcelona, Spain. If his name does not ring a bell, perhaps you may know someone who could send me information about him. He used peg tuners in the construction of his Spanish flamenco guitars. When he built the Mallorca 219,he used elongated ebony pegs. I will be directing my attention to the different gear ratios on a given number of tuning keys, and the peg type is included in the study. I have found that the gear ratios range between 12 to one to 18 to one. I,ll be checking to see if I can locate one that is below that range, or above it. Another interesting experiment which should produce much insight, is a test to see how musical strings react when a chilled surface, such a rubber, wood, cloth, and etc. are placed directly upon them. The tuner is needed to follow the changes of the pitches. Thanks for helping in this matter of pitch changes. Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 23 May 2001 at 09:06 AM.] |
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