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How do the greats become so great? (Page 1)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
How do the greats become so great? (Page 1)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: How do the greats become so great? |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 15 January 2002 03:44 AM
Is there something in the mind or body of steel guitarists, which enables them to reach heights that are unattainable to many others. Everyone has heard the phrase, practice, practice, practice. We now know that this is just part of the plan to master the steel guitar. What really determines the outcome, and degree of mastery after years of serious practice? Bill H. |
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Larry Miller Member Posts: 975 |
posted 15 January 2002 03:56 AM
I believe the GREAT ones have a God given talent, just like Tiger Woods in Golf, Joe Montana in Football, Brooks Robinson on the "Hot corner". IMHO |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 15 January 2002 05:48 AM
I gotta agree with Larry. There are those special few who attain greater heights in various fields, while there are others who practice just as hard, but never seem to "make it". While most anyone can learn to play an instrument to some degree, to really master one I believe you have to be born with a certain gift. If a person does not have a degree of "built in" ability, the music will sound mechanical at best. Then, those that ARE born with talent still have to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE to cultivate the talent/gift!!! Of course all this is IMHO, and I could be wrong... surprisingly, I HAVE been before!!! Lem [This message was edited by Lem Smith on 15 January 2002 at 05:50 AM.] |
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Dirk B Member Posts: 454 |
posted 15 January 2002 06:55 AM
Who's to say what "talent" is? Trumpet player Chet Baker reputedly had "natural" talent and didn't need to practice, but he couldn't shine Clifford Brown's shoes, in my opinion. Both Charley Parker & Clifford Brown were considered average by their teachers and aquaintances in their early years. They may have seemed average at the time, but THEY knew they were good and they stayed with it until they got there. I imagine the young Buddy Emmons stayed with his vision until he nailed it too. Whoops, there I go talking jazz again! On the other hand, there's people who could practice all day and never improve..... |
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Dave Robbins Member Posts: 718 |
posted 15 January 2002 07:14 AM
How do the greats become so great? The answer is in your own question. "How do they "BECOME" so great". In other words, they weren't an over night success. They have a special God-given talent that is "developed" by years of dogged determination, a love of the instrument they play, and a "hunger" to not only play, but to continually learn. They spend more quality time with their axes and are "driven", so to speak. I have a belief that when they work on something they put their whole heart and soul into it at any cost. Want to get better than you are now? How badly? What are you willing to risk in order to spend more time honing your skill? What cost are you willing to risk for greatness? Are you willing to put everything on hold for the sake of your instrument and your talent? Can you make the steel guitar "first" in your life at the expense of everything else? Can you prefer playing your steel over anything else in your life? Think you got what it takes? The greats do! Dave |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 15 January 2002 07:26 AM
Talent and hard work. Same formula for musicians, ball players, olympians, dancers, entreprenuers, doctors, whatever. The more you have of both, the bigger you get. When you have the most of both, you are the best. Now big-time commercial success and fame are another matter. In that case, there is also the element of luck, i.e being in the right place at the right time with the right product to offer. [This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 15 January 2002 at 07:32 AM.] |
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Dirk B Member Posts: 454 |
posted 15 January 2002 08:14 AM
Dave and Jeff both nailed the issues. |
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John Knight Member Posts: 308 |
posted 15 January 2002 09:54 AM
A couple old phrases come to mind on this topic 5% inspiration and 95% persperation. The other is, in the right place at the right time. Taking ones ability and selling it or getting it noticed takes that player to the next level. Not everyone has the ability to do the later. Because I beleive its that stage where the true sacrifice for the love of the steel, or what ever, comes from. No time for family, always broke, looking for the next meal, I pray to god the car dosen't brake down. How many of the great players have stories like these. Most of them I bet. ------------------ |
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Johan Jansen Member Posts: 2207 |
posted 15 January 2002 11:29 AM
Talent, Inspiration, Transpiration and being on the right place at the right time  |
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Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
posted 15 January 2002 11:42 AM
..I agree with those who say that you must have the God-given talent first and then work it...I was watching my eight-year old daughter's Christmas show and one little girl just stood out like a sore thumb, she had the natural grace and movements of a dancer that the other kids will never have..you either have it or you don't.. ..those of us who don't have it can still work hard to enjoy the abilities that God did give us, we just won't be one of the greats...God decided that's how it was gonna be for me, I can live with that..my path goes another way.. |
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Dirk B Member Posts: 454 |
posted 15 January 2002 12:13 PM
I disagree. I believe that people with "average" talent can achieve way beyond the "innately" talented if they have the drive. True that the dancer you're speaking of may have been born with something extra, but will she take advantage of it and use it to the best of her ability, or sit on her laurels? (It's also true that there are folks who have no talent whatsoever, and no amount of practice will help them). Just look at the example of Darryl Strawberry in baseball. |
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Johan Jansen Member Posts: 2207 |
posted 15 January 2002 12:21 PM
Dirk, there still will be a difference between people who made it and the "greats" |
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Bill Llewellyn Member Posts: 1882 |
posted 15 January 2002 12:47 PM
I think the greats also usually get started very early in life, probably before age 12. Prior to age 12 a person can learn numerous languages fairly easily, but after that age languages come harder and are more second nature than first nature for a person. More like an addition to the house than a part of the foundation. Since music is a form of expression (more or less its own language), it's nuances and complexities are best picked up while the brain is young and maleable. Basically, us older fogies are more set in our ways and can't quite adapt to an instrument the same way as a youngin'. Add to that the additional years someone gets when they start off on an instrument during their school age years, plus real talent, hard work, and good fortune where it's needed, and your more apt to get a Buddy or a Paul. (My $0.02.) PS: I also think that a good support system can make a lot of difference. Some time back I remember seeing Paul Franklin mention in a post how his family had made sacrafices so he could get where he is today. The love and encouragement of family & friends is invaluable in any persuit. ------------------ [This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 15 January 2002 at 12:55 PM.] |
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Ray Montee Member Posts: 4090 |
posted 15 January 2002 01:46 PM
I've enjoyed this post and differing views submitted. Along these same lines, I have this question: I'll limit my example to only a few individuals; let's say..... Buddy Emmons; Jerry Byrd; Hal Rugg; Lloyd Green. What if the steel guitar had NEVER been invented...would these four talented men, God blessed as they were, have been equally successful in engineering, medicine, law or astronomy? |
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Dirk B Member Posts: 454 |
posted 15 January 2002 03:46 PM
Johan, Let's put it this way... with the possible exception of Mozart, talent AND determination are what it takes. |
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Dave Birkett Member Posts: 449 |
posted 15 January 2002 04:10 PM
Speaking of Mozart, I remember a story from college that at a ridiculously young age, he had heard a four-voice chorus perform in church, then went home and wrote it down on paper note-for-note perfectly. |
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Earnest Bovine Member Posts: 4687 |
posted 15 January 2002 06:09 PM
That piece that the young Mozart enjoyed was 30 or minutes long. Imagine hearing someone speak for half an hour, then going home and writing down every word he said, and you begin to appreciate the powers of Mozart's musical mind. If he had lived to age 40, music would be different today. |
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David Mason Member Posts: 2008 |
posted 15 January 2002 08:19 PM
I agree about starting young - the three really great musicians I have known personally (2 guitar, 1 piano) all got started by age 7 or so. Remember all that time you wasted in junior high school? Some people could already sight-read, pick up anything by ear and go like the dickens at that age - and they KEPT practicing too. |
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tomsteel Member Posts: 63 |
posted 15 January 2002 08:28 PM
Hey guys.There is alot more to life than just playing steel guitar.As far as making it the number one thing in a persons life is really sort of foolish,don,t you think?What about your children,wife and of course,God?I mean playing and learning is great,but it shouldn,t be the the number one thing in a persons life.Just because someone can out play me means nothing to me.Other things matter alot more when you get down to it. tomsteel |
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Dave Van Allen Member Posts: 5369 |
posted 15 January 2002 08:48 PM
quote: to paraphrase Tom Lehrer: "It's sobering to think that when Mozart was my age, he'd been dead for five years..." |
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Dave Robbins Member Posts: 718 |
posted 15 January 2002 10:27 PM
Tomsteel, exactly my point! You have just given the very reason why you (no offence) will never be considered one of the greats! Don't get upset! That applies to most us. A person can't drop their responsibilities, their family, and everything for the sake of the steel. But, there have been those who did and that combined with a greater portion of talent than others managed to get away with it and accomplish so much. My own talent/ability is limited by the decisions I make everyday, such as: sitting at my guitar for hours on end or taking care of responsibilties. Those decisions will determine what I accomplish. On the other hand I have a very understanding wife of which I'm still married to (my first and only), wonderful kids, a home, a car that is paid for, etc. What would I give to be as good as Buddy Emmons? Well.... I don't know....Foolish? hmmm. Buddy, Curly,and Day might feel differently about that. I have found that there are times when the talent God has given me carries me through. Then, there are the times when experience has paid off and made the difference. Still yet, there have been many times when all that time I have spent wood-sheddin' made the difference. It takes it all, yet I'm still no Buddy Emmons. All the more reason why I apreciate all that "E" has done for the steel, what he has accomplished, and what it must have taken for him to become "The Worlds Foremost Steel Guitar Player!" Dave |
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Steve Miller Member Posts: 97 |
posted 15 January 2002 10:28 PM
FWIW I read somewhere (can't remember where) that a study was done that found that children who were simply exposed to music at a very young age were more likely to become better musicians than those who were not. From the time I was a toddler I went to bed every night listening to my mother practice the piano and I ... well maybe it doesn't ALLWAYS work! Maybe it's in the jeans, oops I meant genes! sgm |
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RUSS RICKMANN Member Posts: 175 |
posted 16 January 2002 06:26 AM
Great posts Mr Robbins. There is really not much more to be said.....the old adage applies here.....you get what you pay for. Once again, thanks for your candor. Russ |
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Dirk B Member Posts: 454 |
posted 16 January 2002 06:41 AM
I think Dave has a really good point that all of us should keep in mind when we get bummed out about our limitations on the instrument. Getting good means prioritizing steel (or whatever the instrument) above all else. Having said that, I think some of our master players DID NOT sacrifice their souls for the instrument, and have also taken good care of their families and kept their lives intact; but it takes the support of a good wife or family (and steady work) to allow one to do that. [This message was edited by Dirk B on 16 January 2002 at 06:42 AM.] [This message was edited by Dirk B on 16 January 2002 at 06:42 AM.] [This message was edited by Dirk B on 16 January 2002 at 06:43 AM.] |
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David Mason Member Posts: 2008 |
posted 16 January 2002 06:46 AM
I've read a lot of biographies of "stars", both in the music field and out, and most of them had home lives that'd make a train wreck look relaxing. |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 16 January 2002 07:06 AM
While trying to unravel the amazing progress made by the greats, in such a short period of time, it is presumed that someday we will find the answer to the riddle. It appears as though there is an ability to create musical patterns in the mind, well in advance of written melody lines. We look for originality, and even though preferences are varied, we know in our hearts the level of playing that would bring unlimited joy into our lives. Bill H.
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 16 January 2002 at 08:14 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 16 January 2002 at 04:39 PM.] [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 January 2002 at 11:31 PM.] |
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Rusty Hurse Member Posts: 194 |
posted 16 January 2002 08:23 AM
Buddy once said " If this is a gift, then I am still unwrapping". |
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Joe Miraglia Member Posts: 771 |
posted 16 January 2002 08:59 AM
Having great talent and being a super player is one thing; being great and famous is another. Many thing go into being great and famous--being at the right place at the right time, knowing when to play and not to play, knowing when to talk and not to talk, and knowing the right thing to say when you do talk. Personality and egotism in moderation, yet having self-confidence and determination also attribute to a great player. Joe |
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BobG Member Posts: 788 |
posted 16 January 2002 01:58 PM
Being a weekend warrior who also works a steady day job I'd have to say i'm as good as I can expect to be considering the limited practice time I put in. I have noticed that after playing a heavy schedule ,say five gigs in 10 days, me playing begins reaching another level. My single string work is alot sharper. My attack is crisper. It's at these times that i'm most likely to come up with something new. I'm overall a much better player. Than, i fall back into my regular routine, my daily job and family obligations take priority and I practice less. I instantaneously slip back to my previous level of play. The way I figure it .. the higher level of play.. the more work to maintain that level. |
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Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 16 January 2002 02:04 PM
I taught Olympic level Gymnastics for 8 years before I became a musician full time. Here is what I learned. I can have one kid with more talent in her little finger than in the whole body of another. But I will choose the other kid(less talented/gifted one)..to succeed, simply because of one word that has not been metioned in this Tread. "PERSISTANCE" That word and that word alone IMO....is what makes someone stand out more than another......Nothing else. Ricky |
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HowardR Member Posts: 5735 |
posted 16 January 2002 07:56 PM
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; The world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." I didn't write this....I only try to live by it. |
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Jim Phelps Member Posts: 2936 |
posted 16 January 2002 08:05 PM
. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 06:56 PM.] |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 17 January 2002 03:12 AM
Persistence is indeed the key to success in those endeavors where the efforts made to succeed are constant in reaching our goals. Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 17 January 2002 at 11:03 PM.] |
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Steve Frost Member Posts: 262 |
posted 17 January 2002 03:25 AM
Howard- Here's the last line of the quote-"The slogan "Press On" has solved, and always will solve the problems of the human race." _Calvin Coolidge |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 17 January 2002 03:56 PM
Before this thread slides away into oblivion, I'd like to point to one of the weakest links in steel guitar performances. It can be seen quite readily amongst all levels of players, including those who have been deemed to be the world's finest. I can't recall reading anywhere, about the excessive pick (finger Picks) adjustments that are made frequently throughout a given performance. Does this bad habit detract from the stage presence of a performer? Or is it of little consequence, and should be passed over? Bill H. |
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HowardR Member Posts: 5735 |
posted 17 January 2002 04:58 PM
Jim, I first saw that on a wall in a copy center maybe 15 years ago. It really impressed me and I asked if they had an extra copy of it, which they did and gave to me. It's been on my wall ever since and has proved itself well to me. Steve, thank you. I never knew who actually wrote that, but, if I had "pressed on" and "persisted", I would have found out sooner. |
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Bob Hayes Member Posts: 951 |
posted 18 January 2002 02:19 AM
Bill, I still adjust my picks durring the shows. Partly because i may need new ones..and partly because I sweat a little. I;m pickin' a little better then when I used to go to your house or you saw me playing with Big Hank or whoever. My speed hasn't improved that much. I don't have a lot of hot licks..but I am more relaxed on stage and am sounding preety good (excluding pick blocking).But I feel more confident...I don't have to THINK much any more when someone pulls out a tune that I NEVER Heard in my life. I can FAKE IT preety good. I feel the guitar now. I guess that's the way to describe it. My basic or extended basic licks work without too much brillient thinking. I think that I could play with almost any one...I'm not going to sound or pick like,Paul, Bruce Loydd,Hal,John,Herby,Tommy,Smiley,Mike,or the other top guys..or even some of the lower level or local pickers. But I'll get the job done and have a heck of a lot of fun doing it. I think the difference IS Talent,Dedication,Experience and access to the opportunity to work on your talent,observe the talent of others, and be in the company of other talented and dedicated people. And I hope that I can have the opportunity to be a part and attend your great function this year... Your Old Buddy Grouchyvet |
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Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
posted 18 January 2002 01:55 PM
Bob H. Thanks for your interesting input. Bill H. |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 18 January 2002 03:30 PM
One other thing...maybe the "Greats" got to where they were because they spent their time practicing instead of getting on the computer and talking about why they sound so great!??  I know I'm guilty of doing that very thing! Lem |
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Samuel E. White Member Posts: 2151 |
posted 18 January 2002 06:26 PM
Bill I'll tell you what I think about the whole subject. It is a long hard road for someone like me that never touched any kind of Instrument and now I'm on my way to learn to play Pedal Steel Guitar.I'm determand to play this Steel Guitar if I have to sit 8 hours a day and if it kills me. I practice 4 hour every day now. Sam White |
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