posted 23 February 2002 12:46 PM         

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You never see anyone playing air steel out there on the dance floor.

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never??? I have two guys in my band doing it all the times

posted 23 February 2002 03:32 PM         

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Why don't we just say that if any group of people with a common interest in something consider a particular item worth collecting, then it IS COLLECTIBLE, whether or not it is considered A COLLECTIBLE in common modern terminology?

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You can if you want. And everyone on the Forum can do it. But the fact is, once you get outside of the Forum, and use that word "collectible", it will have a different meaning to many people. And, in my opinion, do in no small part to the Ebay phenomenon, the Antique Road Show, and the auction climate that innundates our culture, the word "collectible" has assumed a meaning beyond what the Webster's dictionary says. It means items, generally old and rare, that have assumed a value far in excess of the intrinsic value because of a high demand and desirability from the general public. This is how I see it and I certainly may be off base. It's also true that alot of the reason why items like old guitars become so collectible is that so many kids couldn't buy them, had them and ruined or lost them, often wanted many of them when they were younger, and these associations are indelibly imprinted in their minds, and now that they are older, and can afford them, they want the original items they coveted as a kid. This explains a great deal of the collecting mindset, whether it's guitars, dolls, or whatever. And once the huge interest is there, and prices start going up, the the condition and originality becomes paramount to the collectors who pay the most. Since so few people in the general public wanted a pedal steel when they were young, there isn't the same kind of interest.

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 23 February 2002 at 03:45 PM.]

posted 23 February 2002 11:29 PM         

Of course it does! Isn't that true of just about everything? From "what's Country Music?" to "what's Traditional Country Music?" to anything. That's why we TALK, to find out if we're thinking the same thing about whatever subject! Since it has become to mean something different than the Webster's definition to a large number of people, you then think its' most accurate or correct definition should be whatever the largest majority of people think it means? That may seem logical but by that logic, Country music would be defined by Shania Twain and Garth Brooks, not Hank Thompson or Marty Robbins. Nuclear would be spelled Nucular, Ham Radio would be called C.B.s and all steels pedal or nonpedal would be called keyboards.

I don't believe in bowing to the notions, definitions nor anything else of the pop-culture no matter how many of them agree a sow's ear is a silk purse.

If a person wants to make a decision on what makes a collectible or anything else, he can make a guess and take his chances, or do a little research into the subject, which by the way these days is really REALLY EASY on the internet, and learn a bit about the subject of P/P's, stamps, trains or whatever he's interested in. Then he'll KNOW how much he should or should not pay for it, what the average other guy'd pay for it when he wants to sell it, how much he might expect it to appreciate...and when you know your subject it doesn't matter how many definitions or different ideas the multitudes may have about what any word means. There just isn't anything you nor I can do about that.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 23 February 2002 at 11:32 PM.]

posted 24 February 2002 01:10 AM         

"Collar" and "finger" and "push pull" would also have entirely different meanings outside the Forum too, huh? Especially "push pull". ;-)>

posted 24 February 2002 05:39 AM         

Many centuries from now there may be a pedal steel guitarist who really changes the entire world of music with his/her steel guitar. The steel guitar is still in it's infancy. If the instrument became super popular in the future, every steel in existance right now could become collectable. Unfortunately we won't be there to find out.

posted 24 February 2002 09:12 AM         

Nick Reed, I think you should have a Carter, I think you deserve one!

posted 24 February 2002 12:08 PM         

He talked about "intrensic value". That's the cost-point where you could reproduce the original. All the extra $ is just due to public demand. Public demand is fickle, sort of "flavor of the month". I suspect there's not enough public demand for steels. They don't make good wall hangings.

posted 24 February 2002 02:37 PM         

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I have restored many guitars and made them better than new, TO PLAY!To collect, I want one built by the factory , not some guy in his house that thinks he may have the knowledge to "restore".

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Restored is not original. A guitar is only original once, It can be restored a hundred times, but it will never be original again.

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Then what you are saying is if a knee lever is added or "SCREWS" are put through the endplates to hold the guitar more steady, then it isn't original? That must mean that your push/pull isn't original either. Can you explain this Bobbe?

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Nick Reed, I think you should have a Carter, I think you deserve one

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Neither one of you deserve that good of a guitar!

posted 24 February 2002 03:52 PM         

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Public demand is fickle, sort of "flavor of the month

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I keep answering points on this topic because I feel, as a collector of old toy trains for the past 20 years who knows many collectors in my field and other fields as well, I am qualified to provide some perspective on this subject. I just don't feel the above quoted statement is correct. When it comes to true collectibles, that is, old rare items in demand by the general public that command far in excess of their intrinsic value, with rare exception (cabbage patch dolls??), the public does NOT tend to be fickle. Most collectibles like old toys, comics, stamps, baseball cards, guitars, etc. etc. have been popular collectibles for many decades. They have been proven to be one of the best hedges against recessions and inflation, and with exceptions here and there, generally increase in value over time along with the public's interest. While any one person may only have a short-lived interest, those people are replaced with others. And the collectibles tend to have a core group of people who are true experts in their respective fields who, along with specialty auction houses and publications, keep the interest going for decades. If you are not a person who collects collectibles, it is hard to imagine the mindset, the obsessiveness, the fury with which people collect. And another point, when it comes to determining value, it is irrelevant how much you would not take for a steel guitar. All that is relevant from the point of view of value is how much the general public would be willing to pay you for it. That is what determines the value, for insurance purposes, trading purposes, or whatever.

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 24 February 2002 at 03:55 PM.]

posted 24 February 2002 04:18 PM         

That's what I mean by "flavor of the month".

Fender Jags were not desirable a few years ago, then some hot bands (Red Hot Chili Peppers?) used one. Their value more than doubled.

posted 24 February 2002 10:17 PM         

C#

[This message was edited by Cal Sharp on 25 February 2002 at 08:44 AM.]

posted 25 February 2002 09:35 AM         

What might be worth a million bucks to one person might not be worth a plug nickel to someone else.

You have to throw "supply and demand" in there too! Lets face it, they just aren't manufacturing pushpulls anymore and that is what will control a market. The more people want one and the harder they are to find the higher the price goes, with "condition" being the comparison from one to another.

Want something that isn't made anymore? What is it worth to you once you find it?

Cal,
love that old guitar! Glad to see you still have it.

posted 25 February 2002 09:53 AM         

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What might be worth a million bucks to one person might not be worth a plug nickel to someone else.

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