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 Use of the word "Dominant"
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Roy Ayres Member From: Starke, Florida, USA |
posted 11 January 2005 02:58 PM
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I notice that many people on thr Forum use the word "dominant seventh" for any seventh chord that is not a "major seventh". That is not the way I learned to use that word -- am I wrong? In my younger days, no one used numbers such as 1, 2, 4, 5 (or I, II, IV, V) To us in those days the key you were in was the "tonic" chord, the seventh of the 5 chord was the "dominant Seventh" or jusr "dominant", the 2 chord was the "double dominant", the 6 chord was the "triple dominant", the 4 chord was the "sub-dominant", etc. So from that viewpoint, it seems confusing to me to say "II dominant". If we are speaking of the II chord in its seventh configuration (i.e., the first, third, fifth and flatted seventh tones of the scale) why can't we just say just say "II seventh" -- meaning it's not II major seventh. To me, the word "dominant" is not necessary and, in fact, is not technically correct. How about one of you guys who is into more recent theory straightening me out????? ------------------ Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com |
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Leon Grizzard Member From: Austin, Texas, USA |
posted 11 January 2005 03:16 PM
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I think folks are just trying to be clear. A lot of people use uppercase Roman numerals for the chords on all scale degrees, rather than lowercase for minor and uppercase for major. If you use all upper case and indicate III7, diatonically you are saying IIIminor seventh. The use of term dominant makes it clear. In the Texas Swing band I play in, we almost always say major or dominant (both meaning dominant seventh) or minor, when calling II, III or VI, because you see both forms so often. I have never heard that double dominant term. I learned supertonic, mediant, and submediant for ii, iii, and vi (or do I have those mediant terms backwards?) |
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Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA |
posted 11 January 2005 04:56 PM
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I think the reason is because, in the natural state of a major key, the 2 chord is supposed to be minor. So if you simply said "2-seventh" (or "ii7"), you really should play a minor seventh chord, unless instructed otherwise. Hence the term "2dom7" would make it clear that this will be an exception from the natural state of the 2 chord. At least that's the way I learned it in theory class. |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 11 January 2005 06:10 PM
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The dominant 7th chord has the tritone, major 3rd and flat 7. The major 7 chord has the maj 3rd and the maj 7th, the Minor 7th chord had the flatted 3rd and the flatted 7th. These are the 2 notes that define the chord and are the only ones that are necessary to express it. |
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David Kurrasch Member From: Royse City, Texas, USA |
posted 11 January 2005 09:51 PM
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When I was in music school, I had teachers who would get upset if you used the term Dominant to describe anything but a V chord. I think a lot of pop, country, and jazz musicians use the term to describe the 1,3,5,b7 chord no matter which scale degree the root falls on. In classical music theory, however, when you speak of the dominant, you are talking about the V chord. A chord with 1,3,5,b7 that falls on any other scale degree would be called a secondary dominant. For example, an A7 chord in the key of c would be written as V7/ii, or "Five of two." |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 12 January 2005 08:34 AM
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The dominant chord is a V chord, and as such defines the key. That being that each key only has one dominant chord in it. Major chords and minor chords are shared by different keys. C, D and G all have E-7 chords. C maj7 appears in the key of C and G, but C7 only appears in the key of F, and F7 only appears in Bb.... A7, appearing in a C tune and called V of II is stating V of D, which it is. A7 is the dominant V in the key of D. |
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John Steele Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada |
posted 12 January 2005 12:39 PM
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I call any chord with a flattened 7th a dominant chord. I don't know if that's right or not - I've never been to school. While we have the attention of some of the more learned members, I'd love to know more about the 9th tone, and why it's useable in some dominant chords but not in others. For instance, III chords. I've never really got that. Perhaps worthy of another thread. |
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Leon Grizzard Member From: Austin, Texas, USA |
posted 12 January 2005 01:31 PM
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John - One reason that the major 9th tone doesn't always sound that great with III7 is because the naturally occuring 9th of the III7 is flat 9. For example, in the key of C, the III7 is E7. The ninth of E7 in the key of C is the minor ninth F, and not the major minth, F#. Also, the III7 often proceeds Am, or sounds like the next chord will be Am, even if it goes to A7 instead, and so F is the more desirable 9th. |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 12 January 2005 06:55 PM
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quote:It was more enjoyable than going to work, which I've had to do ever since. quote:Couple things here, when you play E7, you are in the key of A, even though the song started in C, and if the next chord in the progression is F, then you're back in C again. If you play a III chord, E-7, the best sounding 9th is F# which would be the same thing as a C maj 7, 9, #11 chord. Back to the E7 in C, it's just a "color and drama" thing, like C to Ab. Ultimately, if it sounds good play it, if it doesn't and you play it a lot, you'll get used to it. |
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