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Music Nashville's Thinking Problem (Page 1)
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Author | Topic: Nashville's Thinking Problem |
Walter Stettner Member From: Vienna, Austria |
posted 05 June 2006 06:58 AM
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Our good friend Wayne Appleby from Australia (Wayne has contributed a lot to the succes of Jean Stafford, the great singer from Australia!) has drawn my attention to this website which all country music fans should be aware of: http://www.takecountryback.com/main.htm Lots of interesting reading material, like this one:
quote:
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Ray Minich Member From: Limestone, New York, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 07:33 AM
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Country music isn't dying... ORGANIZED country music is hurtin' though. Wonder what Britney would sound like singin' "Your Cheatin' Heart"? |
Papa Joe Pollick Member From: Pontiac, Michigan, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 07:48 AM
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Let the truth be told.. PJ |
Dave Mudgett Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 08:15 AM
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quote: This is a typical example of the mis-use of "pseudo science". They pick the demographic they want to try to appeal to (upscale yuppies with lots of money) and of course, the result is a foregone conclusion. IMO, the upscale yuppie demographic with lots of money that most marketeers seem to aim at are not, for the most part, going to ever like anything that has a rural or country connotation to it. I'm sorry - that is the world I grew up in, and I don't think it will happen. This is exactly the opposite of the very successful niche marketing approach - find one or more specialized markets and aim products at them. Instead, marketeers are trying to siphon off a piece of that upscale mainstream market pie. It's a huge mistake. IMO, most markets, especially music, are extremely fragmented, with lots of different "loyalist" groups. To get any street cred with these groups, the product has to be aimed directly at them. They are hyper-sensitive to fakery, IMO. I also think it's absurd to assume that only upwardly mobile economic groups are worth pursuing, as a market. This has never been true, but that's where the glamour is, I guess. How could we realistically expect LA and NY music moguls to see it differently? I believe this will fail under its own weight. We should stop worrying about it, and find a way to go around the "music mainstream" with our own niches. I think the future will require music producers to be agile - lean, mean, and adaptable. The image of pampered rock and rap stars is bogus, and will probably wane just as the exaagerated big-hair bands of the 80s did. I sincerely hope the days of the pork-barrel music industry are coming to an end. Honest music, directly marketed to fans of that music, would be a much better approach that can work in the internet-dominated world we now live in. But it needs organization to get focused. It also needs to have a realistic set of expectations - I'm not talking about Garth Brooks level sales here. Again, IMO. |
Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 09:51 AM
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The musical difference between country and rock is so small these days, one has to wonder why country is considered a separate genre. The real difference is the demographics of the audience, not the music. ------------------ |
Rick Garrett Member From: Tyler, Texas |
posted 05 June 2006 10:35 AM
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Good post Bobby Lee. Short, correct, to the point and a fast read. All the things I love in a post. Rick |
Kenny Burford Member From: Lexington, Missouri USA |
posted 05 June 2006 11:07 AM
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Sounds like good news to me, get rid of the crap that the major labels are sending out to the radio stations then all the none-country stations can fold up and it's back to Real Country Music. So what's the problem? Best news I have heard in years. |
Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 12:43 PM
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You need only to have heard a clear channel country station in the last few years to be able to say with absolute authority that the music for the most part blows. Definitely not the best songs or singers. And I know this may strike some nerves but I think it's time to mix some new blood into the A-team. Paul is safe, but too many of the new records sound too much alike. Perhaps a few new producers would be in order as well. And it's high time I got a record deal and a big pile of money. The pretty boy artists aren't cutting it. They need someone like me, over 6 feet tall and 200 pounds who has actually lived some life to straighten up their act. There's alot of us here on the forum. Too many to be ignored and some of us have some connections. Let's get it together. |
Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 12:51 PM
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And Walter, Thank You for posting this article. Any one that wants a cd of my band playing live, e-mail me your address and I'll send you a copy FREE. Hope this doesn't break any forum rules. Its a cd of covers. The great Jimmy Walls on his Mullen steel. |
Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 06:43 PM
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UP PLEASE. Isn't anybody else encouraged or discouraged by this article? |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 05 June 2006 07:04 PM
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I'm discouraged by it Brett. But I am able to find no lack of really good country music out there that is recorded. That's why, like some of the others here, I don't really care. CMT is owned by MTV. They play most of the same stuff in a rotation that is quite mediocre. Once in awhile there is something good by Alison Krauss & Union Station, or Brad Paisley, Alan Jackson, or Del McCoury. I buy CD's all the time. I picked up the Hacienda Brothers the other day. I really like those guys and there is some outstanding steel guitar playing. What discourages me, is that groups like that are just scrapin' by these days. But there's some great country music being made. Dale Watson, James "Slim" Hand, Buddy Miller, Jon Randall, Patty Loveless, etc. Good country music isn't dead at all, it's just gone kind've semi- underground these days. But we all know the hard work and dedication it takes to become a good musician, and that's the discouraging part. A lot of those folks are not paid commensurate with the "dues paid" during their career. Fellow Californian Merle Haggard can't stand the whole Nashville corporate music scene, and chooses not to participate. God bless him! ------------------ |
Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 07:59 PM
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men Mark, And Merle has done pretty well for himself. |
Dean Dobbins Member From: Rome, Ilinois, U.S.A. |
posted 05 June 2006 08:44 PM
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b0b-I definitely dissagree- the difference between country and rock is as great as it has ever been. If you add steel and/or fiddle to a rock song, with a rock beat, it is still ROCK, not country! ------------------ |
Gary Atkinson Member From: Arkansas, USA |
posted 05 June 2006 09:15 PM
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If you milk a cow til it goes dry you don't quit drinking milk you go buy another cow.It seems like once Ray price and Merle Haggard got older everyone thought,well there's no use doing that music anymore they've done it all.There's still a lot of songs to be written and even more to say these days.It ain't over yet,as long as we don't want it to be.This forum is a good place to start to speak out.Some of you know people who can find the right ears to bend about it,let's all do a little bending. Gary A. |
David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 05 June 2006 09:18 PM
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All this, and Mandy Barnett is still without a contract since 1999. One of the best country voices around. Yet will the brains at the lables The demographics aren't there.. Even though she could apeal to 3 generations of country fans I put on a cd of her for a diehard reggae fan here, |
Dave Mudgett Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 07:29 AM
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IMO - Large, multi-billion dollar companies don't like this kind of market fragmentation - it's expensive and difficult to keep up with all these niches, and hard to predict and keep pace with the changes. They want cash cows - their bottom line is strictly money. In these days of strictly opportunistic capitalism, the money flows strictly into the easiest source for profits. So I'm not surprised that they're doing what other large, multi-billion dollar companies do - try to mold the market into what they want to sell - it's predictable, and they can go to their stockholders and tell them with a reasonable degree of certainty what the future holds. Of course, they forgot that music isn't microwave ovens or refrigerators. Or is it? All they have to do is stamp out this annoying individuality. |
Terry Edwards Member From: Layton, UT |
posted 06 June 2006 08:11 AM
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The paradigm is shifting. Nashville suits "think" they have control of the direction of country music via country radio. Politics aside (please), the Dixie Chicks recent debut at no. 1 on Billboard, Amazon.com, and iTunes without the help of country radio must mean something. The way people discover music and buy music has changed. With the advent internet sites like Amazon and iTunes and all the various music forums and chat rooms, information and virtual record stores have replaced radio and real stores. I can play a sample of the songs on a CD on my computer at Amazon.com and read informative reviews by people who bought the CD. That's way better than listening to some DJ on country radio telling you what is hot and what is not. The Dixie Chicks succeded in selling their new CD without the help of country radio, pop radio, or any kind of radio. Who really listens to radio anyway? I don't. I play CDs, Sirius satellite, and Direct TV listening channels. Radio doesn't give me any choices - they do the thinking for you. Corporate Nashville's thinking problem. The paradigm is shifting and for once it may be in favor of the small independent artists. Terry |
Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 06 June 2006 08:27 AM
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Ed Bensen seems to be part of the problem. He's NOT country. A new organization needs to be formed like The Country Music Guild representing real country people and music. Ricky Scaggs, George Strait, and Alan Jackson as directors. I'm telling you folks this is PLANNED cultural genocide. Thanks Gaylord. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 06 June 2006 at 08:28 AM.] |
Dave Mudgett Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 08:38 AM
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Yes, Kevin - that's the type of thing I alluded to in my first post. It's time to organize now. An independent organization of real country artists would have credibility with that audience. The traditional blues and mainstream jazz folks have been doing that type of thing for a long time. The market for real country is much larger, IMO. |
Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 06 June 2006 09:13 AM
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Does anyone know Ed Bensen's background and what qualifies him to be in charge of the CMA? Also is there a CMA Charter? |
James Cann Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston) |
posted 06 June 2006 10:52 AM
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Excellent article, and my thanks also to Walter S. I wondered at first if it had appeared in the Tennessean; after finding out that it didn't, I wonder if it ever did or would! [This message was edited by James Cann on 11 June 2006 at 05:09 PM.] |
Ray Minich Member From: Limestone, New York, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 11:29 AM
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Trade organizations have been around for many years. Practically every trade has one, to promote their product, promote product consistency, and provide some "cohesiveness" to the group. They are supposed to be servants to the group, not commanding officers... |
Mike Ester Member From: New Braunfels, Texas, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 01:36 PM
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quote: Ernest Tubb was probably the best example of taking the time to acknowledge and thank his fans. I don't believe he ever forgot the people who were the reason for his success. Remember the "Thanks" on the back of his guitar? [This message was edited by Mike Ester on 06 June 2006 at 01:44 PM.] |
Brett Day Member From: Greer, SC, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 03:05 PM
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Didn't the "Thanks" on the back of Ernest Tubb's guitar come from his song called "Thanks A Lot"? I've been wonderin' and thinkin' about it for awhile now. Brett, Emmons S-10, Morrell lapsteel, GFI Ultra D-10 |
Mike Ester Member From: New Braunfels, Texas, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 03:07 PM
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Brett, After each performance, Ernest would flash the back of his guitar at the audience. It was one of his ways of acknowledging his fans. |
Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 06 June 2006 06:16 PM
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Yup, and that 6 string guitar with "Thanks" on it was a Sho~Bud. I gotta admit I didn't read the whole article, but I sure like Brad Paisley's take on country, and there are a few others that aren't going away. I've always liked the chicks, from Wilma Lee and Dolly Parton to Carlene Carter on to Shania (as long as I don't have to rehearse her songs), but of course the ones that obviously sing horribly and don't look particularly good either...
EJL
EJL |
Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 07 June 2006 06:24 AM
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CMA had a big show in Tulsa many years back, the World Music Festival, I believe. Being the tuner on call, I hung around for many acts from Hungary, Africa, you name it, and was quite pleased that the CMA was hip to the idea that country / native folk music is a global phenomenon. It made sense that extending the content might extend the audience. I don't know if the fesitval was ever repeated. I don't know if I qualify to opine here, since I don't listen to radio. But I could relate to the Dixie Chicks, bought 'Home', and went back and bought the first two albums (Home is the best of the lot by far). But here in Lubbock, the ignominy [a new word a day] over them is as big as ever. This Sunday's paper contained no less than three letters and one op-ed piece. (It's a big small town, as the Chicks offer in one new song.) One letter said the Dixie Chicks don't need Lubbock--the writer's point being that their album sales are doing fine, thank you, and their contribution to country has been huge, sales-wise. But now they're playing 'rock' (and you're right, b0b, the difference is small, and more about who's buying than who's singing). Just another example of a style with a wonderful history is struggling to find its place in a changing world. Will the music have to change, or will the audience? |
retcop88 unregistered |
posted 07 June 2006 08:10 AM
A lot of it has to be the songwriting. Man where have the good writers gone? |
Tommy M Member From: Indiana |
posted 07 June 2006 08:39 AM
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Jim, There are several of the "great/good writers" still around. The problem is that A&R people and Producers today shy away from the type/style of songs I believe you are referring too. This being the case, I know more than one award winning songwriter that has tried to adapt their songwriting skills to more closely resemble the current material being recorded and released. It is a sad situation to see these extremely talented individuals force themselves to "under write" for the sake of getting a song recorded and making some money. Tommy Minniear |
Chris LeDrew Member From: Newfoundland, Canada |
posted 07 June 2006 08:40 AM
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The good writers are still around, but they're not writing "lowest common denominater" lyrics and melodies. Therefore, the publishers and record companies want nothing to do with them. I agree - most of the country songs out now are just plain awful and an insult to the genre they are supposed to be representing. Add a bad auto-tuned singer to the mix, you've got a formula that's destined for the downward spiral. Does the average listener want deep lyrics, or the Big Mac lyrics they're getting right now? Watching CMT these days is like watching a series of comedy skits, and I don't mean the Dukes or Reba - I'm talking about the videos. They're just as predictable as the tunes themselves - some kind of cheesy mini-drama going on, followed a by a close-up of the singer's face in profile as the camera fades. WHO IS IN CONTROL HERE? [This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 07 June 2006 at 08:41 AM.] |
Robert Leaman Member From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA |
posted 07 June 2006 09:18 AM
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There is always a FIRST error in any anlysis. Here, that error is a statement, and/or stupid assumption, that people who control C&W in Nashville are capable of congitive thinking. All other opinions and derivations of that opinion are based on the supposition that cognitive thinking transpires in the referenced organization. However, if one lacks sufficient money to influence these decisions, nothing will change. |
John Bechtel Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A. |
posted 07 June 2006 09:54 AM
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I moved to Nashville in 1967 and the D.J. Convention and later Fan Fair was always played (UP) for weeks ahead of time and everyone knew it was just around the corner! But; here it is 2006 and I didn't know a thing about Fan Fair for ’06 until yesterday! Within a few years, I expect it will be history, before I hear about it! I never was much of a History~Buff! ------------------ |
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 07 June 2006 10:19 AM
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The "chicks" tour date in Oklahoma City is being cancelled due to "less than expected" ticket sales. [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 09 June 2006 at 05:04 AM.] |
Frank Parish Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA |
posted 07 June 2006 10:25 AM
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I said this before on this forum. If some radio stations would play real country from the new guys we never hear, it would be grow and soon have an audience that would buy products that were advertised on the radio stations. You can't rely on just the old stuff. There's plenty of new guys that write and sing real country music and should have some airtime. Enough stations playing this kind of music will make a bigger noise. |
Eric Jaeger Member From: Oakland, California, USA |
posted 07 June 2006 03:24 PM
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I can't resist... Real country these days? Lucinda Williams, Gillian Welch, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Bill Kirchen, Tom Russell, Dave Alvin... heck, you can always play Townes Van Zandt and Guy Clark if you run out of songs... As to radio play, I wouldn't know; I don't listen anymore. -eric |
James Cann Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston) |
posted 07 June 2006 03:47 PM
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quote: Not we, obviously. [This message was edited by James Cann on 07 June 2006 at 03:47 PM.] |
Bowie Martin Member From: Wilson, NC USA 27896 |
posted 07 June 2006 05:52 PM
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I suggest we nominate Dale Watson's "Real Country Song" as the Country Music Theme song, and not listen to any radio station that doesn't play it on the hour. Make him the president of the Country Music Association for life, then move "Fan Fair" to Austin or Fort Worth. Somewhere in the bylaws a song will have to have a steel guitar break and a fiddle on the record to call it country. Lets make sure Gene Watson finally gets the recognition he deserves, and a lot of others with him! |
Rick Johnson Member From: Wheelwright, Ky USA |
posted 08 June 2006 05:38 AM
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Walter Thanks for posting that link. Its a shame where country music is at today. www.rickjohnsoncabs.com |
Jack Francis Member From: Mesa, Arizona, USA |
posted 08 June 2006 06:14 AM
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I read that the "Chicks" aren't doing all that great either. NASHVILLE (Billboard) - Initial ticket sales for the Dixie Chicks' upcoming tour are far below expectations and several dates will likely be canceled or postoned. Ticket counts for the 20-plus arena shows that went on sale last weekend were averaging 5,000-6,000 per show in major markets and less in secondaries, according to sources contacted by Billboard. Venue capacities on the tour generally top 15,000. Not to pick on them..what is being put out to the music buying public just plain sucks and people just aren't buying it. |
retcop88 unregistered |
posted 08 June 2006 06:53 AM
I was watching Midwest Country on the tube the other night. One thing I noticed is the age of the audience. Most were or are in their late 60s or 70s. These people do not rush out to buy any CDs or Tapes. Nor do they frequent bars where Country bands try to make a living. Its about the dollars. If Country music ever makes a comeback it will take support and Dollars to compete with the teeni boppers who call themselves Country fans.Once the suits start losing money they would look to other means and dump what they push now. Its all about money to the suits. They hate Country music and wouldn't know a Country song if it bit them on the arse. ------------------ |
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