I'm lost. Try to really explain it. ie- do
not use the old music terms, but maybe, some kinda thump-ka-thump feel.

Thanks- no one on this forum, at least most, when you are trying to explain rhythm, can put any kind of beat in their head[s], unless they are superior graduate music students.

But pairs of swung notes have a larger time interval ratio - say 1.5:1 for moderate swing or even 2:1 or more for a hard swing feel or shuffle.

I think rockabilly is the perfect example, as has been mentioned. The rhythm section swings hard, but the soloist plays perfect straight eighth notes or triplet feel over it. A pair of either notes occupies the same time interval, but the individual notes hit at different times. It's a powerful effect, when done right - to my tastes at least - but I love and have played a lot of rockabilly.

A famous swing musician (may have been Ellington, but I'm not sure) said that if you can't feel swing, then there's no real way to explain - practically - how to do it. I sort of agree, even though I just tried.

Edited to add - I view rockabilly as basically a stripped-down swing band with guitar, bass, drums, and maybe piano, sax, etc. To me, Brian Setzer's evolution from rockabilly to swing was perfectly natural.

[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 22 December 2006 at 09:51 PM.]

Straight: 'da,da,da,da,da,da,da,da'
Swung: 'Da,di,da,di,da,di,da,di'

Listen to Elvis' 'Jailhouse Rock' - at the '4' chord (chorus, if you like), the guitar is playing the boogie riff 'straight' against the swung rhythm.

I have to disagree with your assessment of 'most' Forum members, however - I think of music as my 'real world', and a grasp of simple theory is vital. That's a whole 'nother discussion, however...

Listening to the prescribed songs is the key. It's easier to hear it, than to read about it, I guess.

A real trick is to play every other beat with a "dot".

An old drummer around here used to play a middle beat where you couldn't tell.

Another one bounced his eighth notes on all fast Str 8s. Shuffle Buck..

I've always thought it was annoying as heck.

Another example is Vince Gill's "The Next Big Thing" song. Half the band is playin' a shuffle while the rest are playing straight. Of course the song is written by "Big" Al Anderson of NRBQ, and as stated above they were pretty handy with this sort of groove.

[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 23 December 2006 at 11:56 AM.]

quote:

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Isn't that (swing 8ths against straight 8ths) pretty much the essence of rock-a-billy music

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IMO, yes. Otherwise, to me, a lot of rockabilly would wind up sounding like pure blues shuffles. I know some guys who prefer the shuffle approach, but I generally prefer the straight eights or triplet feels. Think Scotty Moore or Cliff Gallup. It gives more of a feel of forward motion and speed, when contrasted against the hard-swinging rhythm. They're often executed sort of like (I hate to mention it) 3-finger b@njo rolls - 3-3-2, with emphasis on the first beat of each one to give a triplet feel - to fill out the eights. But, of course, it's not generally a b@njo in rockabilly. I'm sure this breaks you up.

Harmonically, many rockabilly players use a major pentatonic feel with lots of passing chromatic notes to fill in that straight-eights or triplet feel. My take, anyway.

[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 24 December 2006 at 12:27 AM.]