I am starting this thread so we won't have to read thru a year's worth of non pertinent info to get to the good new stuff
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quote:

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As I promised, this is my first progress report on midi pickups. I now have drawings completed and out for bids from various electronic manufacturers. The pickup will be approx. 9mm wide and 7mm thick. This should fit on most guitars. If the guitar pickup is too close, an inverted mounting bracket can be used. String spacing will be 8mm which I think is pretty standard on most guitars.

For those who have Steel Riders, I have had my pickup x-rayed and I plan to try and duplicate it. This will have to wait until I get the others into production.

After looking at the x-rays, I have the feeling that most of your problems are with the pre-amps at the pickup. I haven't researched them yet but more than likely the existing pre-amps can still be purchased off the shelf. They don't look too difficult to replace.

That's all for this report. I'll try to do this again next week.

Mike Brewer

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After studying an x-ray of my IVL pickup, I think I disagree with Chuck. In my pickup the coil wires are soldered to a printed circuit board. It looks like the wire through the cable is AWG 28 which should take some punishment before breaking. I believe most of the problems are in the preamps in the little black boxes at the pickup. I have suggested to many that they check the IC numbers on the preamps and try finding a replacement at their electronics supplier. Although the wires are fine (.002} coming off the bobbins, they are encapsulated with some pretty stiff stuff. At least my pickup is very firm and difficult to deflect.

As soon as I receive the magnets I have ordered, I am going to try to reproduce my 12 string IVL pickup. This requires me to create a drawing of the PC board and have some made. After that, all I need to do is wind some bobbins and wire them to the board. I am probably looking at about $750 to get 20 boards. The magnets are going to cost me about $.50 each with a $250 tooling setup fee.

Sometime in the future I may be able to supply replacement pickups for the IVL units.

Mike Brewer

posted 13 March 2001 08:58 AM            
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In order to duplicate the IVL pickup, I must create a drawing of the PC board. It would help if I had a dead pickup, ten or twelve. The preamps are not needed as yet. Anyway I have mine to look at. If anyone knows of or wants to sell a dead one, please contact me off line.

Thanks,

Mike Brewer
228-255-7675

Thanks,

Mike Brewer

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This program is still on track and so far looks good. I have had so many responses to my efforts in producing new pickups that I have trouble sleeping thinking about ways to speed up the process.

As soon as I receive responses to my requests for quotes on the boards I will be placing orders for 100 units. That will keep me busy for a while.

It feels really great to get the kind of responses I have received here on the Forum. Stay tuned, help is on the way.

Mike Brewer

I'm hoping I can help the effort to save the endagered species - the IVL Steelrider. First a comment then I'll get to the point.

A few years back I was trying to get someone or some company interested in building a new steel midi unit. IVL sent schematics of both the electronics and the pickup for the Steelrider. I had a couple of folks take a look at them in hopes of building a unit. They told me that the schematics were pretty complete, except for a "chip" that was the units brain. IVL said they would sell the schematics for that for $25,000. At that point I gave up.

Finally -- here's the point. Maybe you have the schematics already, but if you don't, would you want copies? If so, email me.

I tried to send you an email at bsteelman@ibm.net but it was returned. Is this a good email address for you?
Mike

There may be two different wiring configurations. One for IVL replacements and one for the new preamps. However, I am considering producing and adapter unit which will match the new units with existing Steel Riders. The new units will come first and theIVL replacements will have to follow. I am still holding to my goal of having a demo booth at the St. Louis show.

I now have my fax system back on line. The number is 228-586-0996 if anyone wants to contact me that way.

More next week.

Mike

It is difficult to realize just how much interest this project has generated. I am saving copies of all my email and will let everyone know personally when I have units for sale.

Mike Brewer

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<< Moon Mullin in Alaska >>
==Carter S-10==
<< Old Fender-400 >>
== Evans FET 500 Custom LV ==
Click HERE for Moon's Home Page

Axon, Yamaha and Roland all use the same system. As a matter of fact all their pickup units are interchangeable. Roland has set the industry standard with their 13 pin system. The answer is yes.

I am working with Axon to obtain a distributorship. If I am successful at this, I will make their units available to all members at a decent discount. I don't you know how much I will have to pay for their units.

Mike

Any experiments with that sound sculpting unit that uses a hexaphonic pickup???

Also, are we talking a bout one 12 string pickup and two synth/VG88 units??

I'm pondering having Jerry Fessenden build me a 13 string guitar and using my 12 string MIDI pickup only on the top 12 strings. Perhaps you could do the same on your 14 string. I've heard reports that the MIDI interface can barely handle the low C on C6 or low B on a U-12.

Since MIDI inherently triggers better on higher pitches, at least one IVL user says that he programs a patch or two to play one octave lower to get the low notes without playing the lower strings.

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@home.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-12 (soon to be U-13) 8&5 (so far)=-

But back to tracking...
As I wrote in an article about the IVL Steelrider on my website:

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Pitch-to-MIDI devices are subject to some basic laws of physics that make them less than perfect if one's desire is to accurately transmute an intricate instrumental performance into MIDI data: It takes approximately 1.5 cycles of a played note for the device to accurately determine the pitch of the note. This creates a noticeable delay between the plucking of a string and the sounding of a note from the synthesizer. This delay decreases as the pitch of the note played rises (more cycles per second for a higher pitch = faster response); If the note is not in tune it may trigger the next note up or down from the note intended, or not trigger a note at all if a second note comes too quickly.

These qualities of "tracking" are the bane of companies trying to create alternative MIDI controllers, particularly guitar controllers. From years of hearing the note IMMEDIATELY upon playing it, and expecting that IMMEDIATE auditory feedback to the brain, many guitarists seem to be thrown for a loop when trying to play riffs they are used to through a MIDI device, and many abandon the attempt.

My feeling is, yes there is a delay, but that the advantages outweigh the problems. It is almost like learning another instrument, and with patience and ingenuity one can manipulate the device to one's will. There will be things that the device is just not capable of- accurately tracking a 196 MPH speed picking riff for instance; but having the ability to play almost any sound imaginable will allow one to explore different approaches to creating MUSIC, not just riffs, and open new realms of expression. I find the delay can be musically useful- when playing with an organ patch it can give the classic "B3 player on nembutal" feel when playing with an in-the-pocket R and B groove. One can also play slightly ahead of the beat (a technique many steelers use for volume pedal swells) in order to compensate for the miniscule delay.

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an interesting experiment in improving tracking:

quote:

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It takes approximately 1.5 cycles of a played note for the device to accurately determine the pitch of the note. This creates a noticeable delay between the plucking of a string and the sounding of a note from the synthesizer.

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I will have pickups ready for view at the St. Louis show. They will look very much like the IVL pickup except the preamps will be different.

I am negotiating with Axon for a distributorship. If I am successful, I will be able to provide these at a decent discount to anyone who wants the best.

As for the low notes, I tried my prototype unit on my Bflat 6th tuning and it handles the low B flat with ease through a Roland GI-10. I also talked to the Axon people about this and they don't feel there is any problem since their unit can also be used and is used on Bass.

I built a 10 string prototype today and as soon as my cable arrives, I will have it operating.

I'm very happy to see so much interest in this thread. I'll try my best to keep the ball rolling.

Mike

Today I issued purchase orders for the PC boards, cable and coil/magnet assemblies. The vendors have committed to 3 week lead times. If they meet their schedule, I will be assembling pickups on May 1. I haven't yet tested my 10 IVL configuration unit. I need the six conductor cable. I could use some larger stuff but I don't want to have to remove it when the new stuff gets here.
It appears that I am on schedule to make the St. Louis show. I talked to Scotty and he is sending me the info I need to get some space there.

More Later.

Mike

Thanks for the support. I can use anything you've got on the IVL pickups. I am going to build some of them but for now, my present design is so far along in the production cycle that they will have to wait until later this year.

For everyone's information, I just received my first shipment of magnets and coils. Enough to complete about 50 pickups. The PC boards are about two weeks away and the cable should arrive any time now. I have requests for quotations out to several injection molding outfits for the covers. I am working with an engineering/manufacturing company on my own preamp design. It will be as simple as the IVL preamps and just as reliable. If things go smoothly, I could have them on order within 30 days. In any event I will have units for sale at St. Louis. Scotty doesn't have any booths available right now so I may have to demo these in my hotel room. I do have room reservations as of last week.
More later.

Mike Brewer

If that's the case, it's on no use on my 12 string Carter.

I thought a small update was in order. I am picking up the PC boards for the ten and twelve string units on Monday. The cable company has promised delivery of the six conductor cable next week. This means I will be assembling pickups before the 1st of May.

One of the first 10 string units will be wired into two IVL preamps which I have. This is complicated because the Steel Rider pickups are not wired 1-5 and 6-10. They are wired 1,3,5,7 and 9 through one preamp and 2,4,6,8, and 10 through the other. If this experiment works, I will be able to help those of you who have failed pickups as long as your preamps are OK.

I am really comfortable with the progress of this operation and all the inquiries I have had from the Forum participants.

Mike Brewer

I now have all the material to start assembly operations. I started soldering operations today on both ten and twelve string boards. I can't start installing coil/magnet assemblies until I receive some spacers which keep the magnets from touching the board. That is scheduled to start next week. Presuming of course that I receive the spacers.

The long pole in this project are the covers for the completed board assemblies. I have two shops who will do them for me but they are very expensive due the small number of units (200) in this first production run. In the end I will probably pay what they want because a cover is absolutely necessary to protect the coil/magnet assemblies.

More later.

Mike

I assembled two pickups today. One ten and one twelve. It was a good feeling to see something rise out of the pile of parts I have accumulated. I am placing the order tomorrow for the covers (housings). There is a three week lead time so it looks like I will have deliverable units around the 1st of June. I will post a price about that time.

Mike

So there you have it. I will also have a price around the 1st of lst of June.

I have saved all the e-mail from those who are interested and I will send you each a personal message with a picture of a completed system. I will probably know by them if I can attach one of the new pickups to the IVL preamps. That will be great news forl those of you who have operating Steel Riders.

Mike

I think it is about time to close this thread. I will start a new one when there are items of interest to report.

Thanks for all your support and I am looking forward to meeting many of you in St. Louis.

Mike