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Author
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Topic: Microphonic pickup?
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Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 16 July 2002 12:50 PM
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I'm wondering whether or not my pick-up has gone microphonic. I've heard of this, but I'm not sure of the symtoms, but the steel seems all alive. I'ts hard to do some of the slides without bar noise or other string sounds that I don't want to hear. I can also hear the pedals and knee levers through the amp. without a lot of volume. I don't have any problems on my other steel at all, so I don't really think it's my playing. Any suggestions out there? Do I need a new pick-up. The guitar is a '72 P/P Emmons. Thanks......Carson |
jerry wallace
Member From: Artesia , NM - 35 mi from Roswell UFO CITY
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posted 16 July 2002 01:27 PM
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Carson, I would try checking the pickup coil with an Ohmmeter..If you dont have one, you probably know someone who does..This should tell you if the coil is intact..It should be somewhere between 16K and 18K ohms. While there are other things that can cause microphonics , this would be my recommendation as the best place to start looking for your problem. ------------------
Jerry Wallace-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com
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Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 16 July 2002 04:26 PM
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Jerry, thanks for the reply. I just checked it out and got a reading of 16.5 on the tester. I guess there must be something else wrong.......Carson |
jerry wallace
Member From: Artesia , NM - 35 mi from Roswell UFO CITY
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posted 16 July 2002 05:38 PM
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Carson,the 16.5K is about right..So your coil is intact..Loose windings can also cause microphonics..But there is no way I know of to check for this other than going inside of the pickup..
Is this a problem that just started suddenly or is this Steel one you just aquired?------------------
Jerry Wallace-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com
[This message was edited by jerry wallace on 16 July 2002 at 05:39 PM.]
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Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 16 July 2002 07:03 PM
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Jerry, I've had the guitar for a long time. It's one of the fatback models and has a great sound. This problem seems to have come on gradually. It seems to me I read somewhere that they could be dipped in something and it would cure them...Anyone ever heard of this?.......Carson |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 16 July 2002 07:06 PM
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I have heard they dip them in some kind of wax and that helps a lot......al  |
Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 16 July 2002 08:22 PM
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Some of the old Gibson humbuckers were potted in wax, but you had to be real careful, if you got the wax too hot, the plastic bobbin melted, too! It sounds like your pickup is becoming microphonic, this happens sometimes. This sounds dumb, but it's a good little test--Get close to the pickup, and holler in it.(Hey, I told you it sounded dumb!) If you can hear yourself through the amp, your pickup is microphonic. The DC resistance won't change, the pickup just gets the nasties. Hope this'll help.
God bless |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 17 July 2002 05:25 AM
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Waxing the pickups is called "Potting".
It's very common.
A good standard electric guitar shop or builder should be able to do it for around $30.Good info is here: http://www.guitarnuts.com/technical/electrical/ |
Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 17 July 2002 05:32 AM
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Thanks everyone for the replies. Stephen, yes I can hear myself very plainly through the amp when I holler into the pickup Joey, I'm going to check out that site......Thanks a lot.......Carson |
Jason Lollar
Member From: Seattle area
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posted 17 July 2002 07:00 PM
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Emmons are nice pickups but they did a poor job controlling the tension on the wire, loose windings= microphonics. Emmons have huge coils plenty of opprotunity for microphonics to occur, pot it in wax but be careful to keep the temp to 140-150 or you can melt the plastic they use for the top and bottom of the coil.
Send it to me, Tipka or Gerry and have it done, its cheap. |
Jeff Peterson
Member From: Nashville, TN USA
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posted 18 July 2002 09:15 AM
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80/20 mix of parrafin/beeswax...simmer(warm) 1 1/2 to 2 hours, remove(wiping excess) and let cool. Serve at room temperature. Delicious!
Don't forget to remove electrical tape before braising. Serves thousands.[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 18 July 2002 at 09:16 AM.] |
Jason Lollar
Member From: Seattle area
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posted 18 July 2002 10:08 AM
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The above usually works but the plates on the Emmons are made of laminated pickgaurd material which is kind of unusual. I have found if it sits in 140 degree wax for more than 4 minutes the plates can start to warp so I have a vacuum potter that can remove all the air before the time is up. Most pickups can withstand 140 degrees for long periods of time. |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 20 July 2002 05:40 AM
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Thanks for all the responses guys!Though this wasn't my post I learned a lot.
That 140 Degree limit is very valuable info. I'm glad to be the moderator here, due to this type of co-operation. I was just browsing the bickering in other areas and realized how lucky we are in the ELECTRONICS area. [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 20 July 2002 at 03:59 PM.] |
Jason Lollar
Member From: Seattle area
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posted 20 July 2002 03:02 PM
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Cool, we have it all here!
If its a fiberboard bobbin like a stingmaster pickup you can cook it to death, 180 wont hurt it unless you are heating one side of it with a heat lamp then it will warp. Done that and you know I had to find that time and heat limit on the Emmons somehow. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 22 July 2002 08:23 AM
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People who specialize in this operation do it under a vacuum. That way, there are no voids (air pockets) and the encapsulation is always 100% effective. |
Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 23 July 2002 06:15 PM
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Well, I got the pickup all potted and it works great. The guitar even sounds a lot better. Note separation is a lot better and it's so much easier to play now. It even seems to sound cleaner. It wasn't a big job at all, but I was extremely careful with the pickup and I kept the temperature of the wax 150-155 degrees. I got some bees wax from a bee-keeper friend of mine to mix with other wax. I would like to thank everyone for their advice on this, it certainly was a great help.......Carson |
Robert Thomas
Member From: Mehama, Oregon, USA
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posted 24 July 2002 08:01 AM
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Carson, I was very interested in your comments and experience since potting your pickup. The pickups I have on my steel are unpotted. I have been having a terrible problem with clarity on the first 5 strings on my E-9th neck and the same on the first two stings on the C-6th neck. There are naturally some instances where you don't block your strings after picking and when I don't block there is a terrible resonance and the sounds of the strings seem to overide each other and distort the clean sound that was there when I first got the steel. The problem has grown worse over time. It also seems that the longer I play the sound gets progressively worse. I have tried different speakers and amplifier combinations and even eliminated everything between the steel and the amplifier, so I know that the problem exists with the steel. All I have left to blame is the pickups. Is it your opinion that what I am experiencing is similar to your problem, and might potting cure my problem? Any input from anyone would be appreciated.
Bob Thomas |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 24 July 2002 02:27 PM
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Bob,
Potting, if properly done, will not hurt your pickups. I'd try it.
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Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 24 July 2002 03:02 PM
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Robert, the symtoms that you have with your steel sound about the same as mine were before I potted the pickup. It was getting hard to block strings I didn't want to hear and there was just a lot of noise in general. It was getting so that if I even touched a pedal, I could hear it through the amp. Try getting real close to the pickup and yelling, with your amp turned up to the amount of volume you would use in your living room. You shouldn't be able to hear yourself. I could before potting the pickup, but I can't now. If your guitar has these symtoms, then maybe should do what I done. As Joey said, I don't think it will hurt anything .....Regards, Carson [This message was edited by Carson Leighton on 24 July 2002 at 03:07 PM.] |
Jeff Peterson
Member From: Nashville, TN USA
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posted 24 July 2002 03:08 PM
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A new set of Bill Lawrence pickups will cure that problem forever. In this day and age, there is no reason to put up with old pickup trouble, microphonics, shorts, bad wire, bad winding, cheap materials, poor quality slugs and all that junk. And it is not a huge investment.....just the best you'll make besides the guitar itself. |
Buck Dilly
Member From: Branchville, NJ, USA
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posted 24 July 2002 05:18 PM
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One has to be careful giving advice. I have had pickups which were ruined by potting. Perhaps those who recommend it will guarantee the outcome? It does reduce the microphonic noise, but is a band-aid for the problem, rather than a solution. |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 24 July 2002 05:41 PM
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Could you describe how they were ruined, Buck?
Did they warp or ???I again reccomend the info here: http://www.guitarnuts.com/technical/electrical/ for anyone wondering about the need for potting. |
Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 24 July 2002 06:48 PM
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Jeff, I couldn't agree with you more. We've talked about melting bobbins, etc., and potting pickups IS just a bandaid, not a cure. I've seen more pickups ruined than rescued this way. It's easy to melt the insulation on the pickup winding, too. So nowadays, when you can get new pickups that sound like anything, and your amp can make it sound like anything else, then get a couple of new pickups, and get back to pickin'! |
Buck Dilly
Member From: Branchville, NJ, USA
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posted 25 July 2002 03:19 PM
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I should have been clearer in my response. I had a guitar with highly microphonic pickups potted. This was many years ago and the tone was ruined. They did not warp, they did in fact stop feeding back, but the tone was altered significantly. I concluded that microphonics are not all bad, and that it is better to play it safe and replace pickups, rather than altering a pickup in an irreversable fashion. I apologize for any misunderstanding. |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 26 July 2002 05:32 AM
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No Problem, Buck. I'm just trying to learn here from other's experiences.What I gather form this thread is:
If the pickup is so microphonic that it's a throw-away, Pot It. It might solve your problem. But, be prepared to purchase new pickups becaue it might not. |
Carson Leighton
Member From: N.B. Canada
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posted 26 July 2002 06:39 AM
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All I can say about it, is this. My old 72 p/p Emmons has never sounded better. As a matter of fact, my wife says it sounds better than it ever did.
As I said in an above post, I was very careful with the pickup, handling it, removing the tape, being very careful not to break the fine wire while removing the tape. I mixed about 20 to 30 per cent bees wax with parawax, made sure there was absolutely no dirt in it by straining it. My wife has a candy thermometer and I kept the temperature as close to 150 degrees as possible. The pickup was in the liquid wax for about 1/2 hr. I followed the instructions carefully from the site provided by Joey Ace. I am not much of an electronics man, but a little common sense and patience can go a long way. In my case, the pickup wasn't any good the way it was, so what could I hurt. If I ruined it, I would have to buy another one and if I didn't try to fix it, I'd still have to buy another one. This may not be a long term cure for the pickup, but right now it's working beautifully. I couldn't be happier with the sound and the response.......Regards, Carson |
Jason Lollar
Member From: Seattle area
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posted 26 July 2002 11:12 AM
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One could always rewind it if the potting took out too much high end. Its easy to wind an Emmons so it is less microphonic, the stock coils are really loose.
You could buy a Lawrence which are great pickups but it will sound like a Lawrence not an Emmons. |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 26 July 2002 11:28 AM
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quote:
"This may not be a long term cure for the pickup"
Yup, you might have to do it again in another 30 years.Thanks for the update, Carson! |
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