If you need more info about the steel rider click below: http://www.users.voicenet.com/~vanallen/bakken.html

Bob

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 9&9=-
-=Emmons D-12 push pull 9&4 (soon to be 9&9)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880

Good show on the Steel Rider. I have a 12 string model that I use with an Alesis Micro piano module and it sounds quite nice.

Keep us updadted on your progress.

Jim Palenscar: Thanks! for the offer on the chips. I will let you know if I can use them. The" (8608WMA)1980 Intel chip (8608WMA)1980 " is a D8031AH8-Bit control-oriented microcontroller. I think it was maunfactured for the auto industry. The next time you see a SteelRider demo and you hear the anouncer say " start your engine" you'll know where he is comming from.

Lenny: I use an old Roland U220 RS-PCM Sound Module and and also have a Kawai K1m. So far the Kawai K1m sucks. . I dug out a Toshiba EPROM that I removed from some junk equiptment a few years ago and was successful in that I was able to copy the code from the Master IVL EPROM chip to it. I then tried it in my Steelrider and it works great. I now have a spare. I will try one of the slave EPROMS next.

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[This message was edited by Bob Lawrence on 14 May 2003 at 10:14 PM.]

You may have the info below. You didn't let us know who you tried.
-----------------------------------------
From an old Mike Brewer post about IVL STEELRIDER Repair:

" For those of you who are looking for someone who will tackle repairing your Steel Rider, contact Glen Martin, MartekMiss@juno.com. I have posted the info before but it has been a while so here it is again. If you want you can go to his web site. www.members.aol.com\martekmiss
--------------------------------------------
I ran a test on my STEELRIDER unit and when I switched the cables it still works fine but the string numbers change when you look at the LED's on the front panel. For example when I picked strings 1,2 & 3 the LED's for strings 2,1 & 4 lit up. It seems as if there is no signal getting to the main box on your unit. I guess you have 3 options. The long DIN cables which you can swap (on both ends to test) They are heavy duty and not a likely source. If that works you are down to the pickup and preamps. If you let me know what the problem string numbers are I can have a look at the schematic to let you know what preamp is the most likely cause A or B (if it is the preamp). For example if it were strings 2 & 4 they are both controlled by preamp A. The preamp is the most likely problem area. If it's the pickup I don't know any solutions yet but have only had my unit for a little over a week and am just running a few test to understand the functions. If you need a copy of the preamp schematic I can supply it.

I sent you a personal email but you may not have received it. I will repeat what I said here.

First, get ohmeter and continuity check the cables pin to pin. If they check OK, carefully remove the four screws on the back of the pickup preamp and remove the two covers. On the bottom of the PC board measure resistance from the terminal marked "gnd" to the other terminals except for the ones marked "c" and "common". You should read from 3.5 to 5 ohms. If this is OK, the pickup itself is good.

If the two strings you have lost are even numbers, plug the output of the "B" preamp into the Steel Rider "A" receptacle an strum the strings. If only two LED's light up, you have a pickup preamp which is out. If your bad strings are odd, reverse this procedure.

If, after this, you have determined that you do indeed have a bad preamp, the little surface mount LM324's (4 each are in each preamp) are still available on the market. It requires a savvy tech to remove and replace one of these without damaging the unit. Depending upon which strings are out, the tech will have to determine which of the 324's needs to be changed out.

If everything above indicates your preamps are OK and your cables are good, that leaves the Steel Rider itself. If you have a fax number, let me know and I will fax you a copy of the IVL "String Out" troubleshooting sheet. If you want to talk to me you can call 228-255-7675. Bob Lawrence is doing some great research on replacement components for the Steel Rider. We will all owe him some sincere thank you's when he finishes this work.

I just repaired one of my 12 string units by replacing the "B" preamp. If you can find one of the old IVL Pitch Rider pickups, that preamp is identical to yours with one small modification. I haven't had one to experiment with but I believe the old Kramer units (built by IVL) also have the same preamp.

Let me know if I can be of any help. I know how it feels when your system is down.

Good Luck

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Mike Brewer

The technology in the Steel Rider is a work of art. It is very complex even by today's standards. The biggest improvements in technology have been in the speed and capacity of the chips while reducing the size. The EPROM'S are only one example of faster chips. Basically the master and 6 slave EPROM'S contain programming code. (programmed in Assembly Language) The code is fine tuned for each set of strings. The CPU (the main brain) requests information that is stored in the EPROM'S as it is required. EPROM's are not known for their speed and on a regular computer the info stored in the EPROM's is loaded from the EPROM to RAM (memory chips) at boot up. The CPU then calls for the info as required from RAM. Using this technique speed is not an issue because it is only loaded once. The Steel Rider is always calling the info because the RAM is very limited and it cannot hold all of the info from all of the EPROM chips at once. Increasing the speed of the chips can improve the data transfer speed but it's usually never that simple. There are timing issues, wait states etc... Because the chips are inexpensive and I like to experiment I will try it to see if anything changes. However, the chips that I would really like to try at some point that could make a huge difference are the Multiplexer / analog to digital converters.(ADC0831) They can easily be a source for a bottleneck with conversion times rated at 32 us ( microseconds = us) A modern version of that chip is a ADC08831 with the conversion time rated at 4 us. That is a HUGE performance increase but it would only help if they were a source of delay in the first place. At some point I hope to try it. They are soldered into the board but I would like to put in sockets so that I can swap and test. I wonder what a modern version of the Steel Rider be like? With faster, smaller chips and it could probably be made small enough to clip on the leg of the guitar.

Job 1 - Copy the program code from the old IVL Master/Slave EPROM’s. (Chips with the program code)

Reason: Upgrade the system with the latest known release which is version 1.8 for the slave EPROM'S and version 4.3 for the master EPROM's. In theory this could add additional features, improve performance or reduce the bug count (if the old version had any bugs). I am not aware of what the new changes are. Because we have the ability to upgrade we do. We assume its better. If someone knows what the improvements are please let us know.

Result: We were successful and have a couple of systems currently running with the new chips with no known new problems.

===========================================
Job 2: Copy the program code from the old IVL Master/Slave EPROM’s.

Reason: To use newer EPROM's (chips with the program code) chips with a faster access time. This should allow the Computer brain (microcontroller) to receive information faster. This should help reduce the system delay while you are playing. Although in theory it should be faster other factors such as wait states, program controlled timing cycles, etc... have to be considered.

Result: We have one system being tested in the USA with positive results. The base strings seem to respond quicker reducing delay. Maybe the tester (Forum member) can post his observations.
===========================================
Job 3: Wire one of Mike Brewers homebrew MIDI pickup's to work with the IVL system.

Reason: Once any problems are worked out these pickups could be used as a replacement pickup with the IVL system.

Result: The pickups do work with the IVL system. There is a problem with string spacing that Mike is aware of and we are exploring ways to make a new PC board for the coil mounts to correct the spacing problem. Because there is more that one standard for pickup spacing we will need several boards.

5 more Job's will be posted very soon.

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[This message was edited by Bob Lawrence on 28 March 2004 at 09:21 PM.]

REASON: To identify the problem source. Most of the IVL problems seem to be with the preamps but in past cases where there were problems, some of the people involved, had difficulty determining if it was the pickup that was the source or if it was the preamp.

Result: I came up with a simple test. To try it note the string that failed. A chart can be made which shows the relationship between the wire colors and is very useful but not necessary (you could just test all of the strings/ wires one at a time.)

A simple tester that anyone can make :

You can leave the pickup on the guitar. Use a 1/4 inch jack and solder two alligator clips to it. (for example: use Radio Shack Parts) With your steel amp and the IVL system powered down (off). Disconnect the troubled preamp. (the one that has the dead string) using a regular cord, plug the 1/4 jack into your regular guitar amp. Use your chart and connect one wire from the jack to a wire for the coil you want to test and
the other one to common. Ensure that the volume is way down on the steel amp and power everything back up(on) you can easily pluck the string and hear the note in your regular guitar amp if it is working. You might want to hook the wires to a good coil first so that you know what it should sound like. Mike Brewer will confirm the test.

REASON: To identify the problem source. Most of the IVL problems seem to be with the preamps but in past cases where there were problems, some of the people involved, had difficulty determining if it was the pickup that was the source or if it was the preamp.

Result: I came up with a simple test. To try it note the string that failed. A chart can be made which shows the relationship between the wire colors and is very useful but not necessary (you could just test all of the strings/ wires one at a time.)

A simple tester that anyone can make :

You can leave the pickup on the guitar. Use a 1/4 inch jack and solder two alligator clips to it. (for example: use Radio Shack Parts) With your steel amp and the IVL system powered down (off). Disconnect the troubled preamp. (the one that has the dead string) using a regular cord, plug the 1/4 jack into your regular guitar amp. Use your chart and connect one wire from the jack to a wire for the coil you want to test and
the other one to common. Ensure that the volume is way down on the steel amp and power everything back up(on) you can easily pluck the string and hear the note in your regular guitar amp if it is working. You might want to hook the wires to a good coil first so that you know what it should sound like. Mike Brewer will confirm the test.

Bob Lawrence is designing a new preamp to replace the existing ones that fail. He is making a lot of progress and one day in the not too far future, a new pickup/preamp combination will be available for those who need them.

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Mike Brewer

Prob: The originals are mauufactured with surface mount devices (SMD). They are too small to work on easily. It's hard to find people willing to repair them. The equipment required such as a SMD Rework station is expensive.

Solution: Build the preamps with regular chips instead of surface mount(SMD). All of the part numbers are the same except that they are not SMD. It just means that the pre amps will be a little bigger but when cliped on the leg of a guitar it really doesn't matter.

Current Prototype:
The two preamps in the picture are currently working. They are hand wired on Radio Shack boards. So far so good. Everything seems to be working but I haven't spent much time testing yet.

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My best,
Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com

It works fine.

[This message was edited by Bob Lawrence on 20 October 2004 at 08:00 PM.]

When I get some free time I will post a picture of the single string version that I made.

Robert: I will respond later. No time tonight

Maybe someone else can let us know if they can view the pictures. I can see all 3. Maybe the hosting service had a temp prob.

Robert,

I agree with you in a broad sense but it
all depends on the type of Microcontroller and of course how the software is written.
Some of the newer microcontrollers have both Program and Data wait states. I don't know of those features in the older Microprocessors from the 80's that I 've looked at.

Jim Smith conducted the main test. First I tested the chips on my Steel Rider. Next I
talked to Mike Brewer about the performance increase and wanted him to try it. It wasn't an overwhelming increase in any sense but I did notice that the bass strings responded quicker. I sent the chips to Mike (who got sick and didn't have the time to try them) and he sent them to Jim. We didn't tell Jim what to expect. When Jim reported back he indicated that he noticed that the bass strings were more responsive. I got a email from Jim sometime in Sept and he indicated that The faster chips were still working fine. Exactly why they work faster I can't tell you the theory yet. (work in progress)However, how many times have I add faster RAM to a PC without changing anything else such as clock speeds or wait states and got a performance increase. I guess it's the same idea for microcontrollers.