(sigh) Then.....I started to play at stage levels. When I turned up the volume, I heard a strange rattle on certain notes (especially G notes) as well as when I would play chords on the low strings. The sound was akin to the rattle of those little cymbals on a tambourine.

I took the amp to the shop where I got it, and while the problem was able to be replicated using a six-string (interestingly....the problem was worse using the 2nd channel that houses the vibrato/reverb, though after disconnecting the reverb unit the problem remained), we could not fix it. We tried tightening up every screw....no dice.

An amp tech will be tightening up the tubes and possibly retubing the amp tomorrow.

If that doesn't work.....it may just have to go back to Fender and either a new one shipped or I will get a refund.

The thing is.....the moment I started playing the steel through this amp, I KNEW it had the tone and reverb I was looking for. I want this amp to work.....but I'm suspecting that Fender just decided to throw a 15" into this cabinet and never even bothered to let a steel play through it during testing (if any testing WAS done).

Any thoughts on what the problem might be, guys?

I'll let you know what happens.

[This message was edited by Len Amaral on 12 March 2004 at 01:04 PM.]

Try another Speaker Cabinet and disconnect the Amp speaker and See if it goes away.

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 13 March 2004 at 06:38 PM.]

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quote:

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Steel players do it without fretting

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http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

All the twins I ever worked on had solid state rectifiers. Has Fender gone back to the archaic tube rectifiers in this reissue?

As to extraneous sounds produced when certain hi level notes or chords are played, it can be a real pain to find. Because it can be any of the above and almost anything imagined. When I was repairing them, this problem was 2nd only to "intermittents" to find.

The following are just some of the things that have been found to cause such anamolies:

1. Loose screw(s). Anywhere; chassis, speaker, transformers, etc.

2. Loose tube sockets

3. Microphonic tube(s)

5. Transformer housing loose even though mounting screws are tight.

6. Loose circuit board or fiber component boards.

7. One or more metal edge protectors on the cabinet resonating. This one is difficult to isolate.

8. Any control not tight in its mounting.

9. A washer that got lodged between the chassis and cabinet. It was a bear to find.

If a conscientious technician was working on it, he would connect a signal generator to it, and often the problem can be duplicated continously, by "sweeping" the generator through all its frequencies. If successful, when the resonant frequency of the cause is reached, the problem will show up everytime THAT frequency is selected.

In this way, it is easier to find. In the case of microphonic tubes, placing one's thumb high on the tube and then flicking the tear drop GENTLY at the top with one's fingernail, will confine the test to a specific tube. Albeit power tubes have no tear drop.

If you tap on the side of a tube hard (as many unthinking techs do, it can actually cause another microphonic tube to be excited and confuse one into thinking the wrong tube was the culpritt.

Not to mention ruining the tube(s) while using this incorrect (but quite common) service technique.

Also, I find it odd that ANY one would have to change out all the tubes in a brand new amp with another manufacturer's tubes. To me that is saying Fender is putting out an inferior product. So why buy it?

Surely Fender would not, as a practice, use inferior tubes. Yes they may not use the Rolls-Royce of tubes; but I feel confident their quality control would choose high quality tubes as well as other products used in the amp.

Thanks for the comments and info....I really do appreciate it.

I got the amp back today, and the amp tech that looked at it said that the noise I was experiencing was due to the baffle board screws not being tight enough.....he was able to best replicate the noise with a bass guitar (he didn't have a steel to play through it)...he tightened everything up and put some shims in between the baffle board and something or other (he started losing me with all the "tech talk"). In any event, when I got it home I tried it out and .....the problem is till there, but to a lesser extent. :-( I am able to eliminate the noise if I sit on the cabinet while playing, so it definitely is a cabinet issue, not an electronic one.

For live situations, I know this isn't a big deal, since I hardly play the lower strings on the C6 neck....and there are so many other extraneous noises that the slight rattle will probably never be heard. But for the money I paid for the amp, if the cabinet is posing these problems from the get go there is a strong possibility in my mind that the problems will increase with time (sort of like rattles/squeaks in a car).....and for recording and home practice use, this is unacceptable.

The amp tech did say that the cabinet is really not ideal for this instrument, being the typical particle board/plywood used, versus the solid construction of Peavey's cabinets. The thing is, I just do not like how Peavey's recent amps (N400, N1000) sound. My friends Session 400 sounds great....maybe I need to find one of those.

In any event, the Fender will be heading back. I might see about getting another and see if maybe I just got a bad one. :-/ If not, then I'll either keep playing through my Vox 2X12" Valvetronix (has a Twin model setting), or will look to an Evans or Session 400.

Any further thoughts, all?

Joe

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!
;)

Well, I took the amp to two different places to be serviced.....after the second guy took the entire amp apart, tightened everything and put it all back together, it was worse than before. The harmonic/tambourine-type sound was gone, but the side panel was still making a lot of noise.....a lot worse than before.

Soooo.....I took the amp back to GC. Believe it or not, they had ANOTHER one they just got in. So, I hooked up a bass guitar to it since I didn't have my steel with me. With the amp volume on "4" and the bass guitar volume up high, the speaker on the new one sounded blown.....it was vibrating wildly, which also caused the cabinet to make noise. I hooked back into the one I originally bought, and though it didn't sound blown, it was vibrating wildly as well....TOO wildly.

See, here's the problem. I've noticed that when I play chords using the C6 neck and use the volume pedal to sustain, the higher-pitch notes tend to die out faster (to my ears) than the lower-pitch ones. So, as I swell the volume pedal to sustain the higher notes, the bass actually gets louder. Thus, the amp needs to handle that kind of loud, roaring bass frequency with no problem. If the speaker's about to blow when at "4" on volume, that's not a good sign.

I've played through many steel amps, and this is the first that has exhibited this type of problem with the speaker. I really don't think that this amp is a good choice for live situations, IMO. Too much cabinet noise, and the speaker/cabinet aren't really designed to handle low frequencies for the C6 player.

Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 25 March 2004 at 08:13 AM.]

I am comparing the amp to the various Peaveys I have had (N1000, N400) as well as my Vox Valvetronix (hybrid amp, 120W) and little solid state Fender Deluxe 112 (90W).

On the first amp I was hearing horrible cabinet vibration and a bit of speaker distorion. The second amp had no cabinet vibration, but horrible speaker distortion (sounded like the speaker was blown).

I'm going by GC again tonight....the sound out of the amp is amazing. But I need the speaker and cabinet to be QUIET!!!! I hate rattles and vibrations of any kind. I never heard a peep out of my Peaveys.....even when blowing them at near full volume with heavy bass.

So, I went back to GC last night. Here's what I determined.

When playing EITHER Fender Twin 15" at half volume with my Stratocaster at 10 (which is same volume output as my steel), there is some "tambourine" rattle on certain notes. The note that triggers it was different for both amps.

When pulling down the output volume of the Strat while putting the amps' volumes at 10, the total volume remained unchanged, but the tambourine rattle was MUCH worse.

I noticed that if I plugged into Channel 1 (either high or low gain) or Channel 2 (low gain) the problem lessened......the worst was on Channel 2's high gain input.

This rattle also occurs on certain chord combinations, but ALWAYS occurs when playing certain notes independently. This, to me, is unacceptable. So.....I got a refund.

And...for the record.....I plugged into a new Twin 2X12", a Bassman and an old Twin 2X12".....NONE of them had this problem.

If he has tried an external speaker cabinet?

I can't believe he has plugged into two bad amps and Kevin tried one out and loves it.

Joe
When you said you plugged into the Second amp and the speaker sounded like it was busted or about to. That sent uo a red flag to me. Make sure your Volume Controls are set the way I described in my previous post.

A Master Volume Control on a Fender Amp is an Add on Circuit, It wasn't always there, Turn it fully Clockwise, Thats a Fender amp without a master Volume Control when its set that way. Any other way will give you distortion and thats exactly what you described with the second amp.

Hope this helps

Just went back and read Joes post again, he got a refund. So all of this is history now, I sure would like to have known what the problem was. HAd my curosity up.

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 26 March 2004 at 05:39 PM.]