On this thread please post any info you have about Freq ranges of the various amps. My hope is for an all encompassing list of amp eq's and also explainations of mid tilt or whatever mid adjustment is on various amps?

I just read a really good paper (circa 1972) written by George Massenburg, the fella that supposedly "invented" parametric equalization. He spoke of dB of gain (+ or -)for the band and also of the "Q" of the band (as in the shape of the rolloff curve).

Now what the heck is "tilt"?

(I have that paper in a .pdf file if anybody wants it.)

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 16 February 2005 at 02:03 PM.]

Webb: (#2 steel tone setting) is by far the most extreme of them all. Absolutely huge bass boost that peaks at around 30Hz. You can't always tell that boost is so big because the Webb cabinet is small, but it's there. Huge, huge, huge bass boost with a steep slope down to the midrange dip that sits at 550Hz and is a very deep cut. That's the Webb sound right there. The 3-band EQ is subtle compared to the fixed #2 voicing. The treble kind of rolls back up from the dip and is hottest around maybe 8kHz and then rolls back down by 16kHz or so.

Fender (Twin, Pro, Super, Deluxe, etc): The Fender tonestack circuit gives a general bass boost the peaks around 50 or 60Hz. Then it rolls down to the midrange dip. The midrange dip frequency is interactive with the treble control. If you use a typical Twin steel setting with the treble around 3.75 or so, the midrange dip falls near 800Hz. If you crank the treble up to around 5 or 6, the mid dip falls down to near where the Webb's is at around 550Hz. The Treble is a general wide boost like the Webb.

Peavey: The modern Peavey's like the Nashville 400, 1000, 112, etc. are flat EQ's and get voiced by using the midrange controls. Most players seem to like it set around 800Hz with a pretty good dip. Also a bass boost is common too. This give a similar curve to the Fender Twin. With the treble and the presence there is some nice control over shaping the top end. Bass is a pretty normal bass shelf EQ that peaks around 50 or 60Hz. Something to consider is that the preamp in a NV112 is a NV1000 preamp. The difference in the two amps has LOTS to do with the speaker, speaker size, and cabinet size. The power amps are different, but those sonic differences are subtle when compared to the cabinet/speaker voicing.

Vintage Peavey: LTD or Session 400 (and maybe Session 400 Limited). These amps have a simpler passive type EQ which many players really seem to prefer. This EQ has a typical bass shelf boost. But, the midrange is not flat when set at noon. That actually gives a decent amound of midrange dipping at about 800Hz. To get the old Session 400's flat, you need to crank both midrange knobs all the way up and leave the other tone controls flat. This gives you a flat curve. You cannot boost midrange on these amps. It may seem like it but you're really only bringing the midrange dip up to flat. The treble is set at 2.7kHz which is right at or near most pickups' upper resonant frequency. Very dangerous to overboost the treble on these. It'll hurt. But it's real nice to be able to balance out a pickup on these EQ's. Nice all discrete circuitry, pure tone, total workhorses. Great amps. I love 'em.

Evans: I've seen a lot of variance from different year models of Evans, but there is a general consistency. Probably one of the weirdest but also most flexible EQ's I've seen. With the "depth" off an Evans has the lowest of midrange dips falling at around 375Hz. If you add "depth" it boosts around 250 giving a fatter sound and shifts the midrange dip up to around 500 or so like a Webb. The "Body" control also seems a bit different from different years, but generally it is kind of two controls in one. When set at 5 you could say it does nothing. When you turn it up above 6 the highs start to go away. When you turn it below 4 the lows start to roll away. Kind of a tilt feature, but not really. Very useful when understood. (I may have that backward as far as turning it up or down, but that's the general idea). Then treble is treble. Expand also is a control that seems a bit different from different years and maybe from HV to LV models. Generally it seems to be a high treble or presence boost, but on some it also seems to boost the low mids just a hair along with the highs. It kind of does "expand" the sound. Now the one BIG change I've seen in the Evans models over the years is that some of the very recent models have a mod to the classic Evans circuit that adds lots of very high treble frequencies. Where the older designs had the treble peak at maybe around 7 or 8kHz and then roll back down, like most guitar amps, the new design mod makes the treble very hot at frequencies above 8kHz. It gives the newer amps an extremely hot crisp, cutting sound. Luckily for those who prefer the classic Evans sound, this "crispy" mod is removed with the simple snip of one wire. The Evans sound is special in a way that the Webb is in that they use FET transistors. FET's are transistors that sort of sound like tubes. The Webb only has 2, but the Evans has more. This is partly why the Evans has such a rich and energetic and sweet sound. Back in the day when people decided that tubes were too high maintenance and made amps too heavy, FET based circuits were the solution.

Sho-Bud: The Sho-Bud amps were also based around a couple of FET's. The Sho-Bud single channel amp seems to be VERY much like a Fender Twin in its design, except it uses FET's instead of tubes. That's a generalization, but it seems to be the basis for the design. The EQ seems to be very similar in function.

Music Man amps also seem to resemble the Fender circuit, but again are using transistors in the preamp instead of tubes. Similar tone shaping.

I can not promise 100% accuracy on any of these statements. They are merely observations and opinions.

That might be a good starting point, but it's important to realize when making these comparisons that it's only the preamp section of the amp. The power amp and speaker each have frequency response characteristics. e.g., when you change a speaker the same amp will sound different. It will be difficult to really compare how a given frequency cut or boost will relate to the sound.

Most good players understand how to dial in a new amp. The process that I use can be done very quickly.
1. put everything on 5, or whatever the middle of the range is labelled
2. turn the 'bass' or 'low' control up until it 'woofs' then back off a bit
3. turn the 'treble' or 'high' control up until it becomes brittle then back off bit
4. if the amp has a presence control, set it the same as the treble or just a tad higher
5. if the amp has 'paramid' or 'shift', set it about 800Hz and adjust the 'mid' control until the midrange becomes clearer to the ear.

I do that anytime I use a new/different amp or use one of my own amps in a different room. Works for me.

Knowing the numbers is cool, but basically, the sound is what you're after. Nobody else's settings are 'magic', because they have customized them to their own ear. The guitar, pickup, picking position and style determine how the amp needs to be set. YOUR ear is the best arbiter of what YOU want your amp to sound like.

But, if you want the numbers, the amp mfgrs publish that info in the owner's manual -- at least for most amps I've owned.

Hope this helps some.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

What you (and every other steeler) wants, though, is a certain "sound", and the best way I've found to find it is just to try out different amps, speakers, and guitars until you find something that suits you (bearing in mind that a good deal of "tone" comes from the hands, too).

I want more numbers. How can you tell what your numbers are after the hands, pre-amp and power amp factors are considered?

What do the numbers tell you on the mid shift? Is it the lower number for the mid, higher or the mean?

I can see the next amplifier control panel now. No more knobs, now you take yer mouse, snag the horizontal frequency response curve line and bend the curve to your liking. Peak, valleys, shelves, curves, tilts and all. Only thing missing will be the beer tap.

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 17 February 2005 at 07:40 AM.]

The Standel, I believe, has a lower midrange dip down around 380Hz, like an Evans with the "depth" off.

Brad

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Brad

We all benefit from your wisdom.
(even tho you are just a young'un)

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Brad..you are amazing...

JJ, don't forget that on the Fender amps with TILT back legs,that may come into play here with the MID TILT .....

Maybe we will see ya at the SC Guitar show..