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  Black Box review in Tape Op

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Author Topic:   Black Box review in Tape Op
Jon Bergh
Member

From: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA

posted 27 November 2005 05:22 PM     profile     
hey, just thought i'd write that there is a very positive review on the Steel Guitar Black Box in the recent issue of Tape Op magazine. It's not very long, but the engineer used it on steel then on regular electric guitar and thought it was cool.

For those who don't know, Tape Op is kind of dedicated to the analog, do-it-yourself, 'underground' world of 'pop' music recording. It is probably the last recording magazine to do some pretty straightforward reviewing and not simple manufacturer promo.

Good show, Brad.

David Mason
Member

From: Cambridge, MD, USA

posted 28 November 2005 06:32 AM     profile     
The magazine is free too, I guess the advertisers figure G.A.S. will conquer their costs. There's SO MUCH cool stuff out there.... http://www.tapeop.com/
Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 28 November 2005 06:42 AM     profile     
Hey thanks Jon. We've been axiously watching the mail waiting for our copy. Glad to know it's finally made it to press. The reviewer liked the Black Box so much that he purchased the one he had in for review.

And speaking of TapeOp magazine. It really is the greatest 'zine in the audio/recording world. Great interviews, no commercial hype, useful and down to earth content. Still has an underground vibe, but has really grown in the last few years to be the real deal among audio recording publications. Free subscription too.
www.tapeop.com


Thanks for the heads up!

Brad
www.steelguitarblackbox.com

Dick Wood
Member

From: Springtown Texas, USA

posted 28 November 2005 06:16 PM     profile     
I thought I'd give Brad's black box my two cent review.

I was at Carter Steel Guitars recently and I noticed John had one and basically asked if there was anything to all the talk about it.

John said sit down and try a guitar then hook it up and see what I thought. I was amazed at the warmth and clarity it gave the guitar. I also noted a substantial boost in signal but without any noise increase you might expect. All in all very impressive in my opinion.

Brad's black box will definately be on my Christmas list.

------------------
Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 28 November 2005 11:48 PM     profile     
quote:
The reviewer liked the Black Box so much that he purchased the one he had in for review

It don't git no better!
Jack Francis
Member

From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

posted 29 November 2005 05:09 AM     profile     
Is the "BOX" like the "SONIC MAXIMIZER"?
Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 29 November 2005 06:40 AM     profile     
Jack. The Black Box is not like the sonic maximizer, although it does have a similar effect of adding presence and enhancing the tone. The Black Box is quite simple. It has a purely tube signal path and uses very high quality components to drive the signal. The mere nature of the tube is at the heart of the tonal enhancement. The BBE Sonic Maximizer is all solid state and achieves its effect by phase shifting and time aligning and EQ'ing the signal. There are some harmonic sweetening factors that the Black Box generates that the BBE can not create.

Thanks,
Brad
www.steelguitarblackbox.com

Jack Francis
Member

From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

posted 29 November 2005 01:28 PM     profile     
Thanx....I like the Sonic Maximizer so I'll check out your unit sometime.
Herb Steiner
Member

From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX

posted 29 November 2005 05:31 PM     profile     
I'll repeat a story I posted a while back.

Last year, I did an album with a songwriter named Mike Runnels. I used the Black Box on the entire recording process, which took place over several sessions spaced out over a few weeks. The album got great reviews on CDBaby, so Mike called me to do the next album.

One Monday recently we did the first session, and it was great, but I didn't bring the SGBB. Mike was *happy* with the results, but there was something I could tell he was somehow unsure of that he didn't talk about.

On Wednesday he called and asked "how come you didn't sound the other night the way you sounded on the last album?" I told him I didn't bring the SGBB. "Oh, well (long pause)... can you come back on Friday and recut those tunes with the Black Box?"

I did the session that Friday with the SGBB and Mike was happy as a clam. I mention the story because Mike emailed me this afternoon about scheduling 3 more tunes, and he specifically reminded me to bring "the Magic box."

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association


[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 29 November 2005 at 05:32 PM.]

Roger Marshall
Member

From: Oceanside, California, USA

posted 30 November 2005 06:36 PM     profile     
So, is this used like a DI? Does it need to go in front of an amp first?

I play my lap steel through an old Fender Princeton reverb. Would this be an improvement on that?

Please 'splain it to me!!

Roger

Al Sato
Member

From: Texas Hill Country

posted 30 November 2005 08:09 PM     profile     
Is the Black Box still beneficial if you are using a tube amp, or is it mainly for those who are using solid-state amps?

Thanks.

Al

------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time...

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 01 December 2005 12:02 AM     profile     
The Black Box goes directly after your pick-up,
with no pot or any device in between.
A short chord from your steel to the BB on the floor would be best.
Then out to your pedal/preamp,fuzz etc,
and and then the amp.

Will it improve a Fender tube amps sound?

Ok. if you go right into your Fender; no volume pedal or pot in the line,
then maybe not.

Then again you are going into
a POT on the Fender input stage
BEFORE your Fender's tube... (if memory serves).

So you still lose the direct pick-up/coil to tube connection which is at the heart of the BB's sonic improvments.

In any case having ANY device, including ubiquitus volume pedal,
before the tube stage decouples your pick-up from the tube.

It is NOT a direct box per se, but CAN be used as one, in some aspects.

Basically it makes you instrument "sing" electronically,
before you raise or lower the level with your pedal/pot,
or enter a recording system.

You can use it on an electric guitar,
and it will be more effective setting all tone and volume pots to full output
and EQing afterwards.

Boo Bernstein
Member

From: Los Angeles, CA

posted 01 December 2005 09:08 AM     profile     
Herb --

Did you go into an amp or directly into the board? (I have been doing a lot of recordings directly into ProTools using AmpFarm lately -- just wondering if that's what you were doing?) Thanks, Boo

Roger Francis
Member

From: Indiana, USA

posted 01 December 2005 02:39 PM     profile     
I let a friend of mine try out my BB one night,who plays a fender strat through an older fender twin reverb and told him to play the 1rst set with it and the second set with out, half way through the 1rst song of the 2nd set he plugged it back in for the rest of the night and told me he usally messes with his EQs all the time, but did'nt have to that night. I also noticed he had a smile on his face just about all night
Herb Steiner
Member

From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX

posted 01 December 2005 04:14 PM     profile     
Boo
I was going from the guitar to the SGBB to the Hilton volume pedal to a Webb 614GP amp.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association


Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 01 December 2005 04:16 PM     profile     
It's interesting, the question about if the SGBB is beneficial when using a tube amp. It seemed to me that if you were playing straight thru a pot pedal into a tube amp with no effects in the chain, that you wouldn't necessarily benefit significantly from the SGBB because the pickup is still driving the amp's first tube as the first active stage. But in practice, there's something that happens when the pickup sees the BB's input before anything else, volume pedal included. I have a BB customer who plays guitar thru one of those very expensive Bogner guitar amps. He called me the day he got his BB all full of excitement becase he swore that there were overtones that he was hearing from his guitar that he had never been able to get from using the Bogner alone. He went nuts over it. I honestly didn't expect that much difference, but there's apparently something to the way the BB captures and drives a pickup.

So, if you asked me a year ago, I would have said that you may not benefit much by adding a BB to a tube amp rig, but today I'd have to honestly say that I think it surely would enhance the sound. But I'm biased, so take it with a grain of salt.

Brad

James Quackenbush
Member

From: Pomona, New York, USA

posted 01 December 2005 05:31 PM     profile     
Brad,
If the BB is changing the impedance of the input, that in itself would account for a different natural tone ....Perhaps it effects various pickups differently ... I can run my Strat into different tube amps, and get great harmonic's from some, and hardly any harmonic's from others .... I'm sure that there are impedance settings on the Revelation that would yield more harmonic's than other impedance settings, and that's with running the same EQ No ???......So many variables, so little money !!.......: ).......Jim

[This message was edited by James Quackenbush on 01 December 2005 at 05:31 PM.]

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 02 December 2005 06:16 AM     profile     
I will be recording live in the studio with
both guitarists going into Brad's boxes
then into Line 6 plug ins.
They both play older Line 6 amps live and love them.

One custom SGBB, and one stock Revelation.
They can pick who gets which. (punch, slap, kick..LOL)
I will tell them to just run flat out,
volume on 11 and tone wide open treble.
For volume use a pedal later in the chain if needed.

Make as clean a path top the tube as possible.
And worry about large volume changes, if needed, in the mix.

Most times I will be dubbing steel parts, so I can have my pick.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 December 2005 at 06:19 AM.]

David Wren
Member

From: Placerville, California, USA

posted 02 December 2005 09:49 AM     profile     
Brad, or anyone else using a BB, how does the BB work in conjunction with a Hilton pedal (sounds like it would go before the pedal)? Is there still the usual benefit?

.... and are replacement tubes difficult to find?

------------------
Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 02 December 2005 02:39 PM     profile     
David, the SGBB is very compatible with the Hilton. You would put the SGBB first so you get the pickup/tube interaction happening. Then you still get the wonderful benefits of the Hilton volume pedal. I've had great personal success with that combination just as many SGBB owners have also had.

Brad Sarno www.steelguitarblackbox.com

David Wren
Member

From: Placerville, California, USA

posted 02 December 2005 04:13 PM     profile     
Thanks Brad for the info. Good time of the year for gift ideas too :-)

new topic idea? 10 ways to ask your wife for a BB. (:>)>=[

------------------
Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 03 December 2005 05:32 AM     profile     
It will give me that warm and fuzzy
"I love you so much darlin feeling"
this Xmas season. Hint, hint.

But DEAR! it's SOOO much cheaper than a new steel,
and it will make me happy enough,
that I won't buy a new steel this winter...
So you can have that Hermes pocket book you wanted.

I can get a SGBB, or an new amp... take your pick,
otherwise I have to leave you.

But dear, it's 10% cheaper than your monthly car payments.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 December 2005 at 05:34 AM.]

Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 04 December 2005 08:53 AM     profile     
Here's a copy of the review from Tape Op magazine written by Pete Weiss:


*******************************************************
Sarno Music Solutions
Steel Guitar Black Box
tube buffer/impedance matcher
These days, it's important to optimize every link of the audio chain, starting at the source. Often this source is a guitar pickup. Despite the name, the Steel Guitar Black Box is a device that fills a long-time need for studio rats and guitarists of all types. The tube-driven SGBB is intended to be placed immediately after a guitar pickup (and before any pedals and effects). It optimizes the pickup/amp relationship by matching impedances and circumventing capacitive loads.
A handsome, minimalist box (yes, it's black), the SGBB is about 8'' _ 5'' _ 2'' and is a surprisingly hefty 5 lbs. There's an attached 120 V power cable, a user-changeable fuse, a blue pilot light, and 1/4'' I/O jacks. No on/off switch—it's on when you plug it in. The unit that I tried was outfitted with a true-bypass switch (very handy for A/B'ing sounds), but production models do not have this feature (nor do they need it, really).
During a recent recording session with The Self Righteous Brothers at Verdant Studios, I hooked up the band's pedal steel player with the SGBB. He flipped. With his steel plugged into the Black Box, then into his volume pedal, then amp, his pickup was noticeably more responsive than without the Black Box. Not louder, not driven, just more "present." He said it felt like playing was a bit easier, like you could "feel" the notes a little better. In any case, the steel tone that went to tape was superb. This was not a passing fancy; the steel player wrote down the Black Box's website address and said he planned to buy one. Later, I tried the device out with a few conventional guitars. Same kind of results: more presence, improved "feel." The tone was "strong" and not overly-colored. It just sounded like the guitar and amp were perfectly matched.
Because it is a tube buffer, the Black Box imparts a bit of harmonic distortion on whatever signal it is fed. There is no gain. In addition to improving guitar and steel performance, it is also quite effective at "warming up" unbalanced, line-level signals from the likes of keyboards and drum machines. All in all, it's a great tool to have kicking around the studio or as part of a stellar guitar rig. ($295 direct, www.steelguitarblackbox.com)
-Pete Weiss, www.weissy.com

*******************************************************


Brad

David Wren
Member

From: Placerville, California, USA

posted 06 December 2005 11:25 AM     profile     
Thanks for the suggestions David.... I invested some money in a nice dinner and a bottle of wine......

Brad, if you get an email from a woman named Patty with my last name, don't tell me... It's a secret!

Merry Christmas everyone!

------------------
Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Dan Tyack
Member

From: Seattle, WA USA

posted 06 December 2005 09:41 PM     profile     
I think it depends on the tube amp (whether there is a huge difference in tone with the SGBB).

For most of my live and recording gigs these days, I play into a THD BiValve amp. If it's a lap steel, it goes either direct into the THD, or there will be a Roland V-wah. If it;s a pedal steel, there is also a Hilton volume pedal. Now in this setup, I can hear a difference in tone, but it is really subtle. So to be honest, I usually don't plug it in.

I did a session the other day with a reissue Deluxe Reverb. It sounded good, but not great. I plugged in the SGBB and the tone was dramatically improved.

THis probably has to do with the impedence and other issues with the tube amp.

IMHO if you are playing through any sort of effects setup before your tube amp, or if you are playing through a transistor amp, the Black Box is definitely a requirement.

Larry Sasser
Member

From: Conyers,Ga. USA

posted 07 December 2005 11:11 AM     profile     
I used Brads new pre-amp in St.Louis in 2005 and it was wonderful and it has the Black Box in it. I think he is on to something.
Larry

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