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Author
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Topic: Getting rid of hum in single-coils
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Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 05 February 2006 07:05 PM
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I have a general question about reducing hum. Has anyone tried using a good parametric EQ to notch out 60Hz and maybe 120Hz? Or even a high-pass filter, for in the case of a guitar (like a Tele) the low E is in the 82Hz range. Does that produce undesirable artifacts, or would it serve in a pinch?Thanks. ------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 06 February 2006 01:37 AM
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It would certainly help, and I've had some success with a 16-band graphic EQ. The main problem is that most EQ's are incapable of notching effectively in a 2-4 Hz band (this is all you need). I have seen special "Notch filters" made for the purpose, and they're supposed to put the offending frequency 30db down, but I've never used one. I've never had a hum problem in a studio with single-coils, but it can be bothersome on a live gig. Of course, there's always humbucking pickups, and while they rob you of a little definition and dynamics, they do eliminate the hum problem. The E9th neck might benefit from using an EQ to reduce hum, but the C6th is low enough that you'd lose some important notes. |
Geoff Brown
Member From: Nashvegas
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posted 06 February 2006 02:55 AM
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Al, is the guitar humming while you're playing, or just when you are at rest? And what type of guitar are we talking about? |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 06 February 2006 03:34 AM
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The noise and HUM is an artifact of the Single Coil winding...IF you are in a room where it is tolerable or perhaps at a minimum then you are ok.. IF you are in a room where it is excessive and you cannot change your playing location..you are not OK. An EQ will NOT reduce the noise..the EQ is post the PUP..the noise is generated PRE pup....the EQ changes the curve of the original tonal characteristsics.. When you play in an excessive noise room..you'll know it....make that, you will REALLY know it....then the next day you'll put a HB'er on your axe... I hate it for us..but it's what we got.... ------------------
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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite
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Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 06 February 2006 07:59 AM
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I use a Stringmaster D-8 (non-pedal) copy (C6, G9) and a Telecaster on stage. Both have single-coil pickups and I surely don't want to put humbuckers on either one. It seems to me that narrow parametric filters could work in a pinch if the hum was really bad because they would not affect a large portion of the audible spectrum (they can go as narrow as 1/10 octave, I think) and the goal isn't to eliminate hum but to keep it from being amplified. I can understand that for certain tunings 60Hz could cut actual notes (a low C is pretty close, maybe I could just not play those notes when the hum is bad).The hum is of course more audible when the band is not playing. I have to believe it's always there, though. |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 06 February 2006 09:19 AM
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Al, I'm with you - I prefer single-coil pickups, and I sure wouldn't put a HB on a Tele or Stringmaster. But I have usually found that trying to filter out 60 - 120 Hz hum with a "guitar-grade" analog parametric or graphic EQ affected the tone a fair amount, either on guitar or steel. It's very difficult to get real sharp cutoff in an analog filter, and such a filter is typically sensitive to component drift. It's much easier to design very sharp cutoff digital filters, but now you're digitally sampling, then filtering, and then reconstructing the signal. That brings its own set of problems with it, but we use digital signal processing other places - digital reverb, delay, and so on. Look at an instrument frequency chart - here's a nice one which overlays guitar frequencies onto a piano chart -
http://karensavoca.com/gifs/freqchart.gif You can see that the low B in the typical E9 tuning is about 124 Hz. If the filter has a real sharp cutoff, it should be possible to kill 121 Hz and lower without affecting things much. That should cover both 60 cycle hum and 120 Hz rectified 60 cycle hum. But if you want to just kill below 100 Hz, a good quality 1/3 octave graphic or parametric EQ may work, since 124 Hz is just about 1/3 octave above 100 Hz. 80 Hz is about 2/3 octave down from 124 Hz. For electric guitar, the lowest frequency is around 82 Hz, so a reasonably sharp cutoff >75 Hz highpass filter ought to work OK and kill the 60 cycle hum. 80 Hz is about 1/3 octave above 63 Hz, so again, a 1/3 octave graphic or good parametric may work OK. I always use the 75 Hz rolloff on many mixing boards, such as the Mackie - they help. For 10-string C6, the low C is about 65 Hz, so a very sharp cutoff >63 Hz highpass filter is needed to kill 60 cycle hum. If you don't go that low with your Stringmaster, you may be able to get away with a less sharp filter. I play a universal, and low B on the typical 12-string universal is around 62 Hz. It's going to be pretty tough to even cut out the 60 cycle hum without affecting the bottom string, even with a very sharp filter. Perhaps one can do something with narrow notch filters for noise at other frequencies - sometimes the problem is not just line hum. But if those frequencies are in your instrument range, they're going to affect something. There is no "magic bullet". I honestly don't know what's out there commercially that can do real sharp filtering, but I imagine there is something. You have motivated me to look at what's out there. As far as the hum being audible when the band is not playing, you may want to try a noise gate. This turns the gain down when the signal level is low, like when you're not playing. On a decent one, you can set the hum threshold and a time delay before it kicks in. I have used a Boss pedal version with good effect for years in noisy rooms. Of course, you can manually gate the noise with your volume pedal. |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 06 February 2006 11:07 AM
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Al.. I don't know if you know this, but, the wiring of the stringmaster pick-ups makes the configuration "Hum-bucking" the two 'independent' picks-ups are really just a twin coil Hum-bucker opened up and laid out flat..This is from John Tipka's site quote:
The most outstanding feature of the Stringmaster® guitars is the pair of counterbalanced pickups mounted on each neck which provide a wide range of sound choices not available from just one pickup and, at the same time, which eliminate hum and noise from external sources such as fluorescent lights, motor sparking, strong radio frequency fields, etc.. The design of the pickups is very innovative and takes advantage of electrical phase differences between them to cancel hum. Elevating screws are located at the ends of the pickups. The pickups maybe raised or lowered for proper tone balance between the treble and bass strings. (Rule of thumb: Distance between top of pickup magnets and string bottoms is the thickness of two quarter dollars.)The pickups are wound for the lap steel sound, but the difference is in how the magnets are oriented and how the windings are installed. The front pickup is wound "top going" and the magnets are oriented for North polarity. The rear or bridge position pickup is wound "top coming" and with a South polarity. The pickups are mounted along a common center line parallel to each other and centered one and one half inches apart . The result is a humbucking arrangement with two opposite magnetic fields that oppose and cancel each other. The sound is unique, being somewhat treble-dominant, that blends well in most bands. These pickups work exceptionally well for both the Hawaiian and Western Swing style of music.
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quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
  [This message was edited by basilh on 06 February 2006 at 11:08 AM.] [This message was edited by basilh on 06 February 2006 at 11:24 AM.]
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Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 06 February 2006 11:27 AM
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Hi, Basil. Yes, I was aware of that so there is usually less hum from the steel guitar than from the Tele (depending somewhat on the blend setting). On this particular stage I get some hum from the steel and a lot of hum from the Tele. However, I also have a single-pickup steel I'd like to use sometime, a Magnatone Lyric D-8.The feature you mention is just one more wonderful thing that Leo designed into the Stringmaster. Al |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 06 February 2006 12:00 PM
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quote:
An EQ will NOT reduce the noise..the EQ is post the PUP..the noise is generated PRE pup....the EQ changes the curve of the original tonal characteristsics..
Uhh...sorry Tony, we'll just have to disagree on that 'cause that's just not the way it works.  EQ'ing can be done anywhere in the signal chain, even between the amp and the speaker! (A "negative feedback circuit" is basically a type of EQ.) Of course, the tone might change a little, depending on what kind of EQ setup you're using, but that may well be preferable to a lot of buzzing.
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Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 06 February 2006 01:10 PM
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Ok, I'm game. How do you EQ out Interference all over the bandstand?My comments are referring to excessive Interference ( noise) on the Bandstand...I just went thru this a month or so back on a gig we do on regular rotation. I spent an hour with JW on the phone, and a few others who are way smarter than me.. The solution..when the noise is louder than the signal..it was time to throw in the towel
and that is what I did. And I also came to learn that every Steeler playing this club did the exact same thing..threw in the towel. The only Tele we can use is the one with Noiseless Pups.It's not perfect but it is much better than the other stock SC's... Donny, I'm not sure we are speaking on the same topic, I may be totally mistaken about the thread topic.. But I still don't know how to EQ a signal PRE PUP ...Post PUP..you bet... oh, and attempting to tell the club owner he has a problem ain't gonna work either... I got the " You're the only one who ever had a problem" thing.... HB'ers solved the entire deal... and of course not, I, we, would never put HB'ers on a Tele, but holding a guitar you have freedom to find a better spot with less noise... ------------------
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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 06 February 2006 at 01:13 PM.]
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Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 06 February 2006 01:51 PM
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Actually, electrical engineers devised an optimal solution to this problem a long time ago. To optimize the overall signal-to-noise ratio, the best fixed noise reduction filter is one whose rejection frequency response is inverse to the frequency response of the signal-to-noise ratio, and is called a Wiener filter. At frequencies where the signal-to-noise ratio is large, the rejection should be small. Where the signal-to-noise ratio is small, the rejection should be large. Of course, for frequencies where there is no musical signal, one should have huge rejection. This is what I was going for in my earlier post, and is the ideal situation - if the big noise occurs at frequencies where there isn't much musical signal, essentially perfect noise cancellation can result if one has filters with sharp enough cutoffs to reject just the noise frequencies. If there is no separation of musical signal and noise frequencies, then this optimal filter may degrade the musical signal. But if the noise signal is concentrated in a relatively small band of frequencies, this may be reasonable. I agree, if the signal-to-noise ratio is smaller than 1 across the audio spectrum, one might as well throw the towel in. For me, noise is a bigger problem for steel than for guitar. I can usually make a Tele work in *most* any room by reorienting my position to shield with my body. Not so easy with steel. |
Dave Grafe
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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posted 06 February 2006 05:04 PM
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To answer your original question, Al, YES, someone has tried it and with a reasonable degree of success.After years of trying various units I found a splendid 4-band parametric EQ (AudioArts 4100) for use with with my late '70's Pro I's original single-coil pickup. I reserve the lowest filter for the occasional venues where electro-magnetic interference is rampant, at which time I set it up to notch out the signal somewhere between 60Hz and 120Hz, adjusting the bandwidth (starting as narrow as possible)and amount of cut as necessary to preserve my sanity. It's not perfect (it can definitely thin out the sound a bit), but it gets me through the worst of situations with a smile on my face and some resemblance of 'Bud tone intact. I have used the Furman PQ3 as well, but with the lower filter used for noise reduction there is not enough control left in the other two bands to get the sound I am after. So-called "graphic" EQ's all have fixed filter widths as well as limited (usually 15db max) degree of cut available (the better units have combining filters which when used together can increase the amount of cut but also increase the width of the notch), which may or may not work out in a really bad situation. Both the Furman and the AudioArts units are capable of infinite notch filtering, i.e. complete removal of a given and precise frequency center. I have tried a few other paramtetrics but they all either had a grainy sound or inadequate filters or both. I'm aware that there are many great hum-bucking pickups out there but the guitar that I already own (and love) does not have one and I'm entirely too happy with it to go changing it now - most of the trouble I had with it before was solved by moving the pickup closer to the strings. SInce doing so I don't even carry the parametric around anymore, but it's still the front end of my rack rig, ready to go at a moment's notice.[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 06 February 2006 at 05:11 PM.] |
Bob Martin
Member From: Madison Tn
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posted 06 February 2006 07:25 PM
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Several years ago I had a very bad 60 cycle hum in my strat when on the bridge pickup. So I bought a hum eliminator from musicians friend or ams that worked just fine except it made my tone a little hollow as I recall but I was the only one that noticed and it ducked the noise down so low that it was nearly all gone.If I recall it was 49.00 and like I said I either got it from Musicians Friend or AMS. They probably still sell them and it would be worth the small investment. Does anyone else have any information on those little black plastic boxes? Bob |
John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 06 February 2006 08:41 PM
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Boy! Things seem to have really changed since I first started playing steel in 1948! Of course, I've used Single~Coil P/U's and I've used Humbuckers, but; I never had a problem with Hum in 57-yrs at it! And then there's a Cabinet~Drop issue, which I never noticed either! I must really have missed the boat and in all this time really haven't learned much at all! No wonder I never get any more calls to play! I just plain don't know what I'm doing¡ What a wasted lifetime!------------------
“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
’05 D–10 Derby
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment |
Bob Martin
Member From: Madison Tn
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posted 07 February 2006 03:09 AM
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Big John, I'd say you have been paying the preacher very good all of these years {great big grin}Bob |
Larry Robinson
Member From: Peachtree City, Georgia, USA
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posted 07 February 2006 04:47 AM
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There are explicit instructions on hum elimination/reduction for Tele/Strat guitars at www.guitarnuts.com which might be helpful. A big part of the problem is proper shielding the controls and PUP's. There are color photo's along with the instruction.
Larry Robinson |
Ken Fox
Member From: Ray City, GA USA
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posted 07 February 2006 05:23 AM
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For what its worth, a Profex 2, Bassfex, Tubefex and Transtubefex have a hum filter as an effect (HF) and also a noise gate (NG) that can be assigned. These units do digital conversion of sound as mentioned above. Bill Lawrence also makes great noiseless pickups for Teles. I have then on one of my 4 Teles and they are great. A bit more mids than a regular Tele pickup to my ear, but a great tone for sure. Why are some rooms worse than others? Probably due to light dimmers, fluorescent lighting, poorly installed grounding system in the electrical installation of the building. I have seen one building with so much hum it was intolerable. We found the electrical sub panel feeding the stage wired incorrectly, the neutral and ground busses were bonded together! This is true of a main panel, but never a sub panel. The equipment ground and neutral (referred to as the grounded conductor in the National Electrical Code Handbook) are ran seperately back tot eh main panel. After having the problem resolved the hum was gone. If you are using two amps or have two items in the signal chain with A/C grounded plugs you may be a victim of ground loop hum. Ground loop hum is far worse with single coil pickups. Use a Hum-X by Ebtech on one of the amps (or device) to eliminate the problem.
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Brad Sarno
Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
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posted 07 February 2006 05:59 AM
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The problem with single coil hum is that it's not just one or two frequencies. The obvious ones are the fundamental at 60Hz and the first octave at 120Hz, but the harmonic series extends on upward with many offending frequencies. If you approach it with an EQ, you're going to put musical dead spots at certain notes. You may be able to EQ away much of the hum, but you'll really be messing with the balance of some musical notes. Remember that those EQ notches will also reduce or remove any musical notes played at those frequencies. But when that hum is bad, you gotta do what you gotta do. I've reluctantly gone to humbuckers since the hum is real bad around here and at many of my gigs. Brad
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Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 07 February 2006 07:51 AM
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Grounding/shielding has always been a pet peeve of mine. Simply stated, if you can see the terminals on the pots, the back of the jacks, or any unshielded wire, the equipment wasn't designed with proper shielding in mind. Who's guilty? Just about every manufacturer. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 07 February 2006 08:06 AM
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If you mix the sound with the same sound, at the same amplitude, delayed by (1/120) seconds, it should cancel 60 Hz hum and all of its harmonics. Of course, this would mess with the sound too, and might spoil it. It's just a thought, and I have never tried it. |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 07 February 2006 10:30 AM
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Mixing an 8.33 ms delayed signal with the original signal will produce a very pronounced "comb filter" effect. This does cancel multiples of 60 Hz, but it does affect the sound a lot. To hear what it sounds like, just try it with a delay pedal that goes down to roughly 10 ms delays - set the wet and dry signals at the same amplitude. These delay times are in the general range of delay used by a flanger, which modulates the delay time. Without the modulation, it is very tinny sounding, to my ears. A few articles:
http://buzzwiki.wipe-records.org/index.php/Filter#Comb_Filter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanging
http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponse/ Search for "comb filter". |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 07 February 2006 02:03 PM
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Designing a good sharp-notch filter really isn't a big deal. One op-amp and a few passive components could put the offending 60/120 Hz hum down by about 30-40db. Since it would only cost an amp manufacturer about $10 to add it to an amp, I'm surprised no one's done it yet.  With the resurgence in popularity of single-coil pickups, somebody sure ought to "get on a stick" and be the FIRST manufacturer to offer it!  |
Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 07 February 2006 02:34 PM
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Hey, there's a suggestion for either the manufacturers who monitor this forum or the resident electronics gurus. I'd buy one.Al ------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
Jim Peters
Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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posted 07 February 2006 03:58 PM
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Has anyone tried the Hush or Hush2 products? JP |
T. C. Furlong
Member From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA
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posted 09 February 2006 06:25 AM
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quote:
Uhh...sorry Tony, we'll just have to disagree on that 'cause that's just not the way it works. EQ'ing can be done anywhere in the signal chain, even between the amp and the speaker! (A "negative feedback circuit" is basically a type of EQ.)
Donny, I think I gotta butt in here for clarity. While EQ can certainly be used anywhere in a signal chain, it will only change signals that are before it in the chain. So in the case of pick up, you are right, anywhere will work because it is the first thing in the chain. But if the hum were being picked up in say an amplifier, the EQ would have to be post amplifier. Also, I have found that a digital notch filter at 180 Hz can work wonders and affect tone very little. The key is to find the dominant frequency (not always the fundamental 60 Hz) and cut it with a super narrow and really deep filter. I use an XTA DP224 but I'm certain that a Shure DFR would work too. Roland used to make a digital device that was only meant to remove hum. My friend has three of them in his mobile recording truck. I am pretty sure it samples the amps hum signature, and then inverts the polarity of the sampled waveform to cancel the hum. It works great and every time my friend records Buddy Guy, it's like magic. What I struggle with is this. How can you put humbuckers in a vintage push/pull? I can't bring myself to do it. So if that's the sound you love, let electronics help you retain it.
TC |
Steve Walz
Member From: USA
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posted 09 February 2006 09:59 AM
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I think that replaceing or adding to the metal foil inside the cavity is a cheap way to make some difference in hum. My stringmaster was missing some of this foil. I used a coper paper that I bought at a garden center. It is used for snails or something but it is a thin sheet of coper with an adhesive backing that you pull off like a stamp. You take the pickups and all out and cut the stuff up and stick it on. I did it in the control cavity also. It won't hurt so why not try it? There are a lot of web pages about shielding and people seem to think that it works. Maybe a ground loop problem? STringmasters also have a strange ground that needs to be set up just right.Steve |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 09 February 2006 11:40 AM
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quote:
Roland used to make a digital device that was only meant to remove hum. My friend has three of them in his mobile recording truck. I am pretty sure it samples the amps hum signature, and then inverts the polarity of the sampled waveform to cancel the hum. It works great and every time my friend records Buddy Guy, it's like magic.
T.C. - that sounds great. Do you know which model that is? I don't see anything by Roland online that claims to do this. But here is the Presonus DEQ 624, a digital stereo EQ with an Adaptive Noise Cancellation (ANC) system that adds that functionality on to a stereo digital EQ (I also notice you have one for sale on your website - www.tcfurlong.com is your website, I presume?):
http://www.presonus.com/deq624.html This is what Presonus claims: "AHC Proprietary Digital Algorithm adaptively detects and removes system hum up to the 24th harmonic." Hum "cancellation" is different than filtering. One identifies the noise signal, then cancels it directly. In principle, it's possible to do this without affecting the signal - one needs some prior information about the noise signal. The only review I found on this device was on the Presonus website, written by Ted Barker of Professional Sound: "... There is a proprietary hum reduction system labelled AHC (Adaptive Hum Cancellation) that is in learning mode at all times when in the off position and once the switch is engaged will take eight seconds to acquire the noise frequency and apply correction. During this time the switch indicator will be blinking..." ANC is used heavily in areas like underwater acoustics, aircraft vibration control, medical signal processing, and so on. It would, of course, be nice to find a less expensive device that just did the ANC, but I didn't see anything like that. The DEQ 624 seems like pretty serious overkill for what most of us want. |
T. C. Furlong
Member From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA
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posted 09 February 2006 09:24 PM
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Dave, yes that's my company website. Yes we do have the PreSonus piece you mention for sale. I should really try it out to see if it works on a single coil hum. I just never have. Report will be forthcoming.The Roland hum reduction device is no longer made. The model numbers of two models are SN-550 and SN-700 Stereo Noise Eliminators. You are right that devices like the Presonus are not likely to be found in steel guitar rigs. Expensive and one more thing to haul and hook up. But when you need it, you need it.
TC |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 10 February 2006 08:09 AM
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T.C., thanks for the info on the Roland devices. Maybe it's possible to turn one up.The Presonus looks like a really nice piece for a serious pro with a sophisticated rack, who has to make it work, no matter what, and doesn't want to give up their single coils - that is, if it actually does in practice what it says it does in theory. Look forward to your report. It's funny - when I did a Google search for "deq624" + "for sale", your site came up first. |
John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 10 February 2006 10:10 AM
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I guess in my case, as well as many others I'm sure; we just went to the gig, set up, tuned up and played. If we noticed a hum, or other undesireable clitch we just considered it to be the nature of ‘the beast’ and that it would eventually go away on it's own! If not that night, then at the next venue. And we didn't even call it a venue! We just called it a job or a show! At my age mow, I realize that I lived in simpler days, and I guess I just never caught up with the times! Again: “Ignorance is bliss”! ROTFALMFAO! (and I can't get up!)------------------
“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
’05 D–10 Derby
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 10 February 2006 11:06 AM
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Big John, I also have generally just gone to gigs, set up, cut the hum down as best I can, and winged it. But every once in a while, I get to a gig, or a studio, where the hum is objectionable, or the engineer goes ballistic at even the slightest hint of hum and starts whining about "aren't you a professional, can't you put some EMGs in that &@^% thing - you're messing up the whole thing". There are times when I wish I had a "magic button" to just take it away, without having to give up the original single-coil pickups on a Tele or a steel. |
T. C. Furlong
Member From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA
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posted 10 February 2006 03:44 PM
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Dave, So here's the report of the down and dirty, quicky test I did. I got the old wraparound out in my warehouse (very noisy EMI environment) and it was hum city with the single coil. Then I put the Presonus in the chain. No hum and the tone seemed about the same. The weird thing was that with the AHC engaged or not engaged the hum was not there. Also, I would wonder about the processing time. If anyone is seriously thinking about one of these Presonus units, let me know and I'll give it a full test.
TC |
Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 12 February 2006 01:38 PM
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Does Presonus make the same unit without all the other EQ stuff? Or is the other EQ stuff all necessary to make the hum cancellation work?Thanks. Al ------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
T. C. Furlong
Member From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA
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posted 12 February 2006 01:51 PM
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Al, Presonus only offers the AHC in the digital EQ. The answer to your question about whether or not the EQ is necessary is no and yes. Because the Digital Signal Processor in the unit is used for both the EQ and the AHC feature, it is necessary. All of the 62 sliders on the front are not necessary but I bet they would not offer a less expensive "no slider" version because it would not appeal to most users.I figured out why inserting the Presonus quieted down the pickup without engaging the AHC feature. It has a downward expander built in too. That's similar to a noise gate.
TC |
Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 12 February 2006 02:09 PM
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Thanks, TC.I suspect that the noise gate is what worked for you. My feeling is that a noise gate combined with a sharp high-pass filter will be what I end up using and that will take care of 75% of the problem at my "problem venue." I'm going to go read all the specs of that Presonus unit once again. It might fit the bill in one box. Al ------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
Dave Mudgett
Member From: Central Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 13 February 2006 01:55 PM
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Thanks, T.C. - I'd love to try one out, but I suspect it's overkill for my current needs (and not in my budget this month, for sure). Your observation about the downward expander doing the trick may be the ticket for me also.Another thread on the ISP Technologies "Decimator" pedal came up today:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/008379.html It's apparently a modified controlled-expander type of system, developed by the original designers of the Hush system, according to their website. They claim that it doesn't suffer from the downward expander dead zone problem. I briefly used a Hush 10 years ago for guitar - when I set up for good noise gating, the time to release on staccato notes was noticable. This Decimator is inexpensive enough that it might be worth a try. BTW, no luck finding one of the Roland units. I did see one on ebay, but it was almost as expensive as the DEQ 624. |
Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 13 February 2006 03:28 PM
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For "proof-of-concept" I am going to try using my Behringer Shark. It has a high-pass filter and a noise gate, among many other weird features. I don't know why I didn't try it for this purpose before, except that I didn't like what it did to my tone. :-) But, that was before I got a Brad Sarno Black Box. I'm playing that notorious venue on Sunday and I'll try the Shark there and report back.Al
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Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted 15 February 2006 04:55 PM
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It's not hard to see why humbuckers are so popular !!!!!!! |
Danny Harrell
Member From: Livingston, Louisiana, USA
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posted 16 February 2006 07:03 AM
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Hi Al,I recently posted a thread on this issue. I have been researching a foot pedal unit called a DECIMATOR made by a company called ISP Technologies. A fellow steel player named Hal Higgins first told me about this unit. I borrowed one from a local music store this past weekend and tried it and was impressed. It has a dial which can be used to dial the 60 cycle frequency out. I thought that this unit worked very well, and like most steel players, I am particular about tone. I did notice a slight tonal change, very similar to what a humbucker sounds like, but not a lot in my opinion. I am going to buy one strictly for recording purposes only. I prefer the single coil sound live, but this will be good in the studio for me as it will help quiet my single coil pickups down. I placed the Decimator pedal between the guitar and volume pedal, it seemed to work the best at this point in the chain. There is more info on this at www.isptechnologies.com. The unit is a stomp box and costs about $120. You may want to check it out, hope this helps. |
Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 16 February 2006 03:21 PM
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The Behringer Shark really isn't designed to be used in a guitar signal chain. There is too much tweaking of levels to be done. The noise gate is a blunt-edged tool that will do what I want but at a cost. I think that the proof-of-concept is there, in that a high-pass filter and a noise gate can be used to get rid of a large percentage of annoying hum. A unit designed specifically for use in a guitar signal chain might work very well, indeed. I might see if I can try out a Decimater, as Danny suggests.Al ------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
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