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Author
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Topic: Courage to change to Mozilla
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Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 09:16 AM
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I finally did it ... from some supporting comments from other members, I "sucked it in" and found the guts to change browsers.Well sir, I'm pleased to report that with a minimal amount of effort, I'm back up and running in less than 15 minutes! If this browser really stops all the spyware and viruses that Internet Explorer allows, I can't encourage others enough to try it out! I am sickened when I read about some of the problems that have been happening to other members. I know how hard (or impossible) it is to restore all the lost data from getting a virus. If you were afraid to make the change, perhaps my success may help to boost your confidence. Warm regards, Jim |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 03 October 2004 09:54 AM
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.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:37 PM.] |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 10:38 AM
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Hi Jim:You are directly responsible for helping make the decision to change. I sincerely appreciate your help and encouragement!! |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 11:54 AM
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For years, there were significant differences between the HTML features that browsers could support. Netscape and Microsoft were at each other's throats with competing 'standards' for HTML. Now that things have settled down, using an alternative browser isn't nearly as risky as it once was.
I'm typing this in Safari on the Mac. I've found very few pages that Safari doesn't support - mostly ActiveX stuff that I wouldn't want on my computer anyway. The biggest difference between IE and other browsers is support for ActiveX plug-ins. Most of the adware that gives us so much grief is based on the ActiveX protocol.
There are a few things based on ActiveX that I appreciate, though. The Goggle toolbar, Adobe's Acrobat Reader and the Macromedia Flash client are good examples. So, it's not really the ActiveX technology that's to blame. It's Microsoft's inability to control ActiveX developers. It was a "collosal mistake" to allow developers to install plug-ins into IE without enforcing a central licensing authority.
That's my opinion of this whole mess.------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6) |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 12:31 PM
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I may need some help on sending email.I was able to setup the receive portion on Mozilla, but the smtp (send server) gets an error saying that it might be set-up wrong. Dang ... I did everything right, or so I thought. Did you guys have any problems? |
Jim Cohen
Member From: Philadelphia, PA
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posted 03 October 2004 02:33 PM
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I recently switched to Mozilla/Firefox and it's working great. [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 04 October 2004 at 03:38 AM.] |
Don Walters
Member From: Regina, SK, Canada
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posted 03 October 2004 04:20 PM
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I've been using Mozilla for a few years. I recently switched to FireFox for browsing and Thunderbird for mail, both are from Mozilla, but are somewhat leaner and faster than the full Mozilla, esp. if you're not going to use the extra features in Mozilla (e.g. compose)It's all good stuff and great at blocking popups, yet allowing those you might want. For example I checked the Carter website a few days ago and they have 2 popups when you hit their home page. I assumed they were safe so I said yes to that site, but all others are still blocked. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 03 October 2004 04:27 PM
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I did not go for Thunderbird--I'm still using OE. I've saved and pretty well filed in a whole folder system zillions of emails going back several years. Will I be able to import all the folders and maintain my system if I go over to Thunderbird? Will the transition be as easy as the IE-to-Firefox transition was? |
Don Walters
Member From: Regina, SK, Canada
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posted 03 October 2004 08:57 PM
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Jon. I just checked Thunderbird and, under Tools->import it gives you a choice of "address books", "mail", and "settings". Clicking on any of them then gives you a choice of Eudora, Outlook, Outlook Express, and a few text file types. I assume you can import all three of "address books", "mail", and "settings" if you wish, one at a time.I must tell that I don't know how well it works because I didn't use Eudora or OE or Outlook prior to switching to Thunderbird. However, I'd be amazed if you couldn't install it to see how you like it, without losing your existing mail. And it may not have all the features that OE has ... I've never used Outlook or OE. [This message was edited by Don Walters on 03 October 2004 at 08:59 PM.]
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Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 03 October 2004 09:51 PM
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Thanks, Don. I'll muck around and find out for myself. I have always liked OE in spite of the little security flaws that have the potential to destroy the world as we know it. But I'll be happy to let it go if I can just keep these files intact. And I agree, I'd be surprised if it can't be easily done. |
Jeff Agnew
Member From: Dallas, TX
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posted 04 October 2004 05:11 AM
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quote:
There are a few things based on ActiveX that I appreciate, though. The Goggle toolbar, Adobe's Acrobat Reader and the Macromedia Flash client are good examples.
Just for clarity, neither Acrobat nor Flash are based on ActiveX - only the plug-in auto-installers. IE users who have ActiveX disabled (which should be everyone) can download and install them manually. Which is, of course, how users of Mozilla/Firefox/Opera now do it. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 04 October 2004 11:38 AM
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I guess I'm misinformed. What protocols do Acrobat Reader and Flash use to insert themselves into the IE browser window? I thought ActiveX and Java applets were the only ways to do that. |
Jeff Agnew
Member From: Dallas, TX
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posted 05 October 2004 08:54 AM
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b0b,My attempt at clarity was about as clear as mud. Sorry. Here's a better one. quote:
What protocols do Acrobat Reader and Flash use to insert themselves into the IE browser window?
ActiveX.However, since neither Flash nor Acrobat requires ActiveX to run, IE users who have disabled it can launch a Flash or Acrobat file as a separate instance if the MIME type is configured correctly. And, of course, if both Flash and Acrobat Reader are installed on the user's system. So, you are correct that to display either file type in an IE window requires ActiveX. My wording should have said that neither technology itself is based on ActiveX, only the plug-in and auto-installers. Sloppy writing. |
Chris Lasher
Member From: Athens, Georgia, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 03:19 PM
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Mozilla is cool; Mozilla Firefox is awesome! Love that browser.I'd like to clarify, Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox both support the use of Macromedia Flash Player and Adobe Reader within the browser. Adobe Reader simply needs to be installed, and installation and integration of the Flash Player is as simple as a few mouseclicks on Macromedia's website for Windows users. Additionally, I'd like to point out that both Mozilla and Mozilla Firefox have Google search functions built right into the browser, batteries and all. No extra toolbar required.  [This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 06 October 2004 at 03:35 PM.] |
Gary Shepherd
Member From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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posted 09 October 2004 09:04 AM
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I still say get a copy of DriveImage - do a fresh install of windows and then make a backup image. If you ever get a virus or things quit working right, just reinstal from your image. The reinstall takes about 10 minutes from start to finish. Much faster than the week or 2 that it can take to get your computer back like it was installing one program at a time.------------------
Gary Shepherd
Sierra Session 12
www.16tracks.com
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Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 30 October 2004 03:56 AM
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I too have changed from IE to Mozilla Firefox with zero issues. I mean..NO issues.I wonder how long it will take for the spammers to rewrite there scripts to intrude on this browser.
I couldnt agree with b0b more in that MS was really negligent for allowing all this attachment nonsense to there IE browser without licensing.
It's only a matter of time before we see all this stuff in Mozilla land as well... but for now it's a good internet life...
t |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 30 October 2004 08:30 AM
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It's been almost a month now, since I switched from IE to Mozilla, and from Outlook Express to Thunderbird.I must say that the wizards that are part of the download make it pretty darn simple to switch. There was a couple of days of 'getting used to' the new applications, but I swear that it's well worth the effort. Best regards,
Jim |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 30 October 2004 09:25 AM
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Switched to Firefox and Thunderbird about a week ago, very happy with them both. Every once in a while I come across websites that don't open well in Firefox (my own, for example...  ), but the "View in IE" plugin takes care of those.Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com
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Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 31 October 2004 11:24 PM
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Firefox users, try the plug-in called Stumbleupon. There's no annoying sign-up nonsense (it's a very short, painless process, no spyware or adware or anything), and it basically revitalizes your whole web experience. Seriously, give it a shot, it's like the old days when people used to actually "surf" rather than go through a search engine like Google for everything. Also, there's a great ad remover plug-in whose name I can't remember. -Travis |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 10 November 2004 02:09 PM
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I just read yesterday where the release of the newest Firefox browser is set to give Internet Explorer a bit of grief.I hope they kick Microsoft in the butt! No active X, no popup ads, or drop down ads, and the Thunderbird email handlers filters spam automatically. How can you "not like" that?!!? |
Mark Ardito
Member From: Chicago, IL, USA
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posted 11 November 2004 06:36 AM
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I program a lot of .net applications for use in a corporate intranet. It is easy because by corporate architecture rules, all systems must be Windows XP with IE 6. However, if I were programming .net applications for the WWW I would be pulling my hair out. I know there is a big difference right now on what CSS IE and Netscape (or NutScrape as I call it) support. There is also an issue of some .net components that I use that Mozilla does not support. However, if you look at the web stats from a website, you will see that over 95% of the browsers used are IE 6 or higher. The other 5% will come from Netscape, FireFox, Opera, Safari and etc. I think coding for IE is a pretty safe bet, but not a sure thing. The W3C needs to set a browser standard and enforce it. Just my $.02 Cheers!
Mark
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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
[This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 11 November 2004 at 06:37 AM.]
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Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 11 November 2004 02:13 PM
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Who says Microsoft isn't concerned about Firefox ... check this out:
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+says+Firefox+not+a+threat+to+IE/2100-1032_3-5448719.html
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Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
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posted 11 November 2004 03:40 PM
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Been using Mozila for quite a while with no problems. Like it much better than IE.Bill |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 11 November 2004 04:22 PM
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.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:38 PM.] |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 11 November 2004 06:05 PM
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quote:
However, if you look at the web stats from a website, you will see that over 95% of the browsers used are IE 6 or higher. The other 5% will come from Netscape, FireFox, Opera, Safari and etc.
Actually, the web stats for my own website showed as much as 12% Mozilla users (including Firefox), before I started using Firefox myself,- that was a real surprise.
Perhaps my website draws a 'special' crowd...  ------------------
www.gregertsen.com
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Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 11 November 2004 06:54 PM
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.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:38 PM.] |
Mark Ardito
Member From: Chicago, IL, USA
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posted 12 November 2004 10:40 AM
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Here are the stats on a clients website that I maintain:MSIE 6.x 9521 99%
Netscape 7.x 121 1%
Opera 7.x 3 0%
Firefox 3 0%
Netscape 4.7 1 0%
MSIE 5.x 1 0%
Safari 1.x 1 0% This was for the entire site for the month of October. ------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com |
Jeff Agnew
Member From: Dallas, TX
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posted 13 November 2004 11:21 AM
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Mark, that's really a surprise. Those figures are very atypical. I've never, ever seen anything approaching IE6 penetration like that except in an intranet. For the last several months most surveys show IE6 usage declining.But it's really a moot point because browser stats are notoriously unreliable. There's just no statistically significant way to measure them. There are some interesting sites on the subject, including those here and here. Target audience, survey methodologies, sample size, and other factors can drastically alter browser stats. Also, don't forget that many alternative browsers can spoof the user agent string for compatibility reasons. In fact, that's a standard feature in Opera, and it's set to "IE, Windows" by default. Without question, IE has the largest browser penetration but that's due to Microsoft's near monopoly in the OS market more than anything. |
Mark Ardito
Member From: Chicago, IL, USA
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posted 13 November 2004 03:17 PM
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Jeff,For some reason this client of mine ALWAYS has that high IE hit ratio every month! Other clients of mine have a much higher Netscape and "other" ratio. I downloaded the 1.0 release of FireFox and have been using it at home. I really enjoy it. I have read several articles about that kid who is 19 that is one of the head programmers for Firefox. He was an intern at Netscape when he was 14 and now he is a sophomore at Standford University and also running the show for Firefox. Not bad for only 19! HA Cheers!
Mark ------------------
Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 13 November 2004 03:40 PM
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.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:38 PM.] |
Tommy Mc
Member From: Middlesex VT
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posted 19 November 2004 07:12 PM
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So I downloaded Firefox a couple of days ago. It feels comfortable...not a big difference in GUI from IE6. It blocks pop-ups that Google and Popup Stopper were letting by. The only issue I have is that is takes about twice as long as IE6 to load a page. The graphics seem to take forever to load. Some sites also don't look the same, but it is the slow speed that bothers me. Everybody talks about how fast Firefox is, but this is not my experience. Anybody else had this happen? |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 19 November 2004 07:54 PM
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Yep, Firefix is slow here too, especially on graphics as you mention. I've blamed it on the combination of the advanced pop-up blocker and the IE firwall, but I really don't know if that's the reason. As for the sides that don't show properly, there is a plugin on the Mozilla site called "View in IE" that enables you to open the page in IE directly from the site. I have to use it on some sites, but it's not often. Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com
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Mike Baxter
Member From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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posted 26 November 2004 10:56 AM
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I found that Thunderbird:
1) eliminated all the flags on my OE emails
2) showed the most recent 104 messages of the 1115 total messages in my Sent folder as dated Feb 06, 2001
3) I could not drag the sent emails into my Maximizer database programI've (reluctantly) switched back to OE. Still keeping Firefox though.[This message was edited by Mike Baxter on 26 November 2004 at 10:57 AM.] |
Wiz Feinberg
Moderator From: Flint, Michigan, USA
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posted 26 November 2004 11:53 AM
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I am a Webmaster/developer and have to test all of my work in alternate browsers. I chose Mozilla-based browsers as my alternate, two years ago, while keeping IE 6 SP1 as my main browser. I was content to continue patching IE and using it as my master browser until recently, when I read about an extremely critical, as yet UNPATCHED IFrame vulnerability in IE, posted on Securia. Despite the fact that MS knows about the IFrame Vulnerability there is no patch or fix for Windows 2000, or XP with SP1. Their only solution was to upgrade to XP with SP2. I am a contented Windows 2000 user, with all current service packs, hotfixes and patches installed. I use very restrictive security settings in IE, yet I am vulnerable to the current Internet Explorer IFRAME Buffer Overflow Vulnerability. This alert was release to the public on Nov 2, 2004, and is still unpatched! Read about it here: http://secunia.com/advisories/12959/ What I am getting to is that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Since I have been using and updating Firefox as a test tool, I decided to make the switch offical two weeks ago. Firefox 1.x gracefully imported all of my Cookies and Bookmarks (Favorites), and is now my primary browser. I still use IE for certain websites that I know are safe to view, but it is basically relegated to secondary status, and for testing website layouts. Warning!
Windows users must have Internet Explorer installed and functioning to obtain Windows Updates, and ActiveX must be on for the Windows Update site to scan for updates. Users who turn off all ActiveX controls will need to manually locate and download patches (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en), service packs and hotfixes, since the update scanner won't work in the browser, or in Firefox. I am not yet sure if the Windows Automatic Update function requires ActiveX, and will Post when I know the answer. If it doesn't use ActiveX it is the best solution to staying up-to-date without using IE. Enuf for now. Wiz[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 26 November 2004 at 11:56 AM.] [This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 26 November 2004 at 12:32 PM.] |
Chuck Miller
Member From: Newton, Iowa, USA
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posted 27 November 2004 01:46 PM
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Been using Firefox and Thunderbird for quite a while now. Running Debian Linux. |
Roger Kelly
Member From: Mount Carmel, TN. 37645
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posted 28 November 2004 07:21 AM
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I have just started using Firefox and Thunderbird. So far everything works great. No problems making the change at all. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 28 November 2004 07:27 AM
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I downloaded Thunderbird to add to the Firefox I've been running but it failed to import my saved folders---I file & save just about ALL of my correspondences going back some 5 years--and after mucking around trying to get this thing happening (and failing probably due to my own shortcomings) I too have reluctantly opted to continue with OE6 for email. |
Jeff Agnew
Member From: Dallas, TX
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posted 28 November 2004 08:36 AM
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Wiz,I feel your pain. Two things come to mind - First, you can disable ActiveX for everything else and still leave it functional for the MS updates. Add the URIs to the Trusted Sites zone, where you can enable signed controls. Although I still set mine to "Prompt". The following should work for Win2K, depending on the specific patch and load balancing. If not, you get the idea:
http://V4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com
https://V4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com http://download.windowsupdate.microsoft.com Second, the IFRAME exploit can be negated by using Proxomitron or a similar proxy app. I have a Proxo rule set to display all IFRAMEs and ILAYERs as a text link. If I trust it, I can click the link to display content. If not - no harm, no foul. I can send you the Proxo code if you're interested. UBB code just choked trying to display it.
[This message was edited by Jeff Agnew on 28 November 2004 at 08:38 AM.] |
Wiz Feinberg
Moderator From: Flint, Michigan, USA
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posted 30 November 2004 06:22 PM
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Jeff;
Thanks for the input about adding MS Updates to the Trusted Zone. I already did that, plus I had to add Symantec LiveUpdate to that zone, to allow some program updates to "take" (like the WMI Update to NAV 2004).Did you surround your codes with a set of [ code ] ... [ /code ] tags? Wiz[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 30 November 2004 at 06:25 PM.] |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 30 November 2004 06:38 PM
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quote:
I downloaded Thunderbird to add to the Firefox I've been running but it failed to import my saved folders
Jon, this is possible, but you can't import them the usual way. I did this when I changed from OE to Thunderbird, but I can't remember exactly where I found the saved email folders. You'll have to go to "Documents and settings", then "Program Data", and find the OE folder with your saved emails there, then copy the folders (drag and drop) to the "Profile" folder in Thunderbird. It takes quite some time, especially if you have many huge attachements, but it worked for me.. Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com
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