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 Session Rates (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Session Rates |
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Bob Schorell Member From: Vero Beach, Florida, USA |
posted 10 August 2001 01:28 PM
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Could someone give a ballpark idea of what session rates are going for. Do you charge by the hour or session. |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 10 August 2001 02:24 PM
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I recently heard a figure of about $5,000 per musician per track. I'd be curious to know if that's anywhere near reality. ------------------ |
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Michael Holland Member From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA |
posted 10 August 2001 02:31 PM
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Search for 'American Federation of Musicians' for the local in your area. They can provide demo and master session rates. ------------------ [This message was edited by Michael Holland on 10 August 2001 at 02:35 PM.] |
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mtulbert Member From: Plano, Texas 75023 |
posted 10 August 2001 03:21 PM
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David, You are not anywhere near reality. Typically there is a wage of x number of dollars for a three hour session (In Nashville anyhow). Back in the 70's it was about 275 for the session and one person on the gig was deemed the leader and he got paid double. I am sure that number is higher now with inflation and all but no where near 5K per picker per track. I have a buddy in Nashville and I will email him and get the exact number for you. Regards, Mark T. |
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Larry Miller Member From: Gladeville,TN.USA |
posted 10 August 2001 03:29 PM
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 Never mind[This message was edited by Larry Miller on 10 August 2001 at 03:30 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 10 August 2001 03:58 PM
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I usually charge $75 here in Santa Rosa. |
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Craig A Davidson Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA |
posted 10 August 2001 04:08 PM
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Around here it's 40 an hour. But the experience is priceless. ------------------ |
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Bob Schorell Member From: Vero Beach, Florida, USA |
posted 10 August 2001 04:11 PM
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Thanks for the replys guys. Keep them coming, meanwhile I'm gonna try for the 5k and see what happens. |
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Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA |
posted 10 August 2001 04:27 PM
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Bob, I'd suggest you charge by the song and NOT by the hour. Here's why. IF you nail the song on the first take, you're done in 5 minutes. What's that worth?? There would be no incentive to do it fast and well the first time! I've done some sessions by the hour, years ago, and I always felt terrible on those occasions when you keep blowing something and have to redo the take over and over again, and all the while your bill is actually INCREASING! Boy that can make ya feel like $hit. So what I do now is charge a certain amount for the FIRST tune on the session and then a lesser amount (about 70%-75% of the price for the first tune) for each subsequent tune on the same session (acknowledging that they pay more just to get me to pack, travel, unpack, set up, tear down, etc. but I only need to charge for it once, on the first song). But if they call me back another day, then we start over again at the top. Make sense? I should add that these are local, non-union demo sessions I'm talking about. ------------------ [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 10 August 2001 at 04:29 PM.] |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 10 August 2001 04:28 PM
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Five grand huh? Guess I'll have to move, Does the leader still get double? What about cartage? Extra pay for playing extra instruments? Do you get cancellation pay? Boy, I could live on ten sessions a year. Whats the cost of living there? Yea, I'll leave Gnashville! Bobbe----(I love this stuff!) |
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Bob Schorell Member From: Vero Beach, Florida, USA |
posted 10 August 2001 06:51 PM
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Bobbe, just had to respond to your reply. Had me laughing for five minutes. Do you do comedy as a sideline? |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 10 August 2001 10:24 PM
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I think the standard for non-union is $100 a song. |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 11 August 2001 05:50 AM
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After I'd heard the number, and thought about it for a while, it did seem kinda high to me. (And, it was referring to studio musicians in Nahsville -- probably on a union scale, though I'm not positive). Sounds like I probably misunderstood, then. Maybe it was $500 a track? Maybe $5,000 per CD? ------------------ |
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Larry Miller Member From: Gladeville,TN.USA |
posted 11 August 2001 06:45 AM
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In the very early 90's, it cost 6 Grand, 4 songs, this included "A" team musicians, Bass, Acoustic Guitar, Electric Lead Guitar, Piano, Steel Guitar, Fiddle, Drums, and Background Vocals. How that broke down as far as Producer fee, studio time, and all, per musician, cartage etc., I don't know. I know that Reggie Young along with other Grizzled and First call vets got paid double back then. ------------------ [This message was edited by Larry Miller on 11 August 2001 at 06:45 AM.] [This message was edited by Larry Miller on 11 August 2001 at 06:52 AM.] |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 11 August 2001 06:52 AM
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I wonder if there is any legal provision anywhere for retroactive compensation to make up for those I did for less than $5000? (or for those I did for less than $100) |
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John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA |
posted 11 August 2001 11:15 AM
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As a signatory employer, I pay about $305 per three hour session to a player for master scale ($595 for a double scale player or leader) and about another $40 paid to the players pension/health fund (though in Nashville there is no health plan, so the health portion is added to the players check. So a five piece band, single scale master session costs the employer about $2070 ish for a three hour date (plus cartage, studio, engineer, piano tune etc...) Adds up pretty quick. Demos and limited pressings run about 60% of that... |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 11 August 2001 05:10 PM
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quote: Only if I get my 25% commission. ------------------ |
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Vern Kendrick Member From: Earth |
posted 11 August 2001 07:45 PM
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My price just went up |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 11 August 2001 08:41 PM
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You guys are killin'me! Vern, up from what?, $5000? How ever there was one week in 1973 when I made Over $5000.00 in one week in sessions,Thanks to a foul up at Capitol Records, I'll give details tomorrow if anyone cares to hear about it. Bobbe |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 11 August 2001 09:25 PM
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Maybe I should run for union leader? How's this for a new slogan: "We demand $5,000 per track because some uniformed fool said that's what we get." ? Hmmmm, not quite what I was looking for -- needs work. ------------------ |
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John Steele Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada |
posted 11 August 2001 10:32 PM
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David, This past summer I helped a friend of mine produce a low-key CD for his quintet. Granted, this was an Extremely budget-oriented project. He hired the musicians through a live bar gig, the engineer (talented amateur), and had the graphics/production thing done.. for 1000 cds. The price tag for all of it, inclusive, cd's delivered to the door: $5300. (That included piano rental for the piano player, who is a bit of a fusspot  )I realize this is the low-end extreme, but I thought it bore mentioning. Perhaps he got what he paid for though. Opinions vary on that. FWIW - John |
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Pat Burns Member From: Branchville, N.J. USA |
posted 12 August 2001 07:55 AM
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...the only "petroleum engineers" I've seen wearing a uniform were at the Hess station ...------------------------------------------- The Unofficial Photographer Of The Neighbors [This message was edited by Pat Burns on 12 August 2001 at 09:42 AM.] |
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Dan Tyack Member From: Seattle, WA USA |
posted 12 August 2001 10:28 AM
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A typical master session around here pays around $2-300 per song, where you typically do a 1-2 songs in a 3 hour session. I have an unusual approach to getting paid for recording. There is almost no recording of what I would call country music around here. So on most sessions I am selling the instrument and my playing as much as anything. I try to get on as many tracks as possible, not just the track or two that they want to give a country flavor to. So I tell the producer/artist to give me what they felt my playing was worth, divided by how much they have to pay. I am pretty fast in an overdubbing situation, so I can usually do 4-5 songs in a 3-4 hour session. For this I usually get at least $200, up to $500. Often I will do spec work for an especially interesting (and underfunded) project. This works for me, and usually I get paid more then I would have asked for. Now for people I have worked for in the past and are a pain in the rear, I ask for more than I think they will pay ------------------ |
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Larry Bell Member From: Englewood, Florida |
posted 12 August 2001 10:53 AM
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So, John, how was the piano????? ------------------ |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 12 August 2001 01:11 PM
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quote:I believe in Great Britain that's called a 'prat tax'. I've used it extensively, not so much in recording, but in my 'day job'. [This message was edited by chas smith on 13 August 2001 at 01:16 AM.] |
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Johan Jansen Member From: Europe |
posted 12 August 2001 01:46 PM
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Here in Holland, I work for a dayprice. They rent me for a morning, afternoon or evening, Also, more charge for A-sessions than for Demo-sessions. A sessions work with the unionprices. Johan |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 12 August 2001 05:32 PM
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quote: You had me scratching my head on THAT one for a while. Apparently, I know how to spell, I just don't know which word to type. Either that, or I was uninformed about how to spell uninform. >>> The Unofficial Photographer Of The Neighbors If you do too much of THAT, you might get to see some people wearing a diffent kind of uniform -- like black/white stripes. ------------------ |
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Bill Llewellyn Member From: San Jose, CA |
posted 12 August 2001 07:17 PM
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What do you suppose a Nashville A-teamer makes per session? |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 12 August 2001 09:36 PM
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When I lived in Hollywood, I had some neighbors that lived in the apartment building across from me who would do very intimate acts in their living room with the drapes open. But they were so hairy, they looked like Wookies. It was pretty scary so I had to close my blinds. |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 12 August 2001 10:38 PM
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quote: For the record, the number I *thought* I heard (of 4,000 to 6,000 actually -- I just said 5,000 for simplicity) was definitely referring to musicians recording for CD's that would be released on major record labels for known artists. I still think that number being "per musician, per track" sounds high, though. Then again, I don't have any basis for comparison (other than what others have said here). At a rate like that, you could record one track a week, and take 12 weeks vacation a year, and still make $200,000 a year. ------------------ |
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John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA |
posted 13 August 2001 10:32 AM
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"What do you suppose a Nashville A-teamer makes per session?" For major label work, these guys are double scale, or $595.00 per three hour session (plus the contribution to their health/pension fund and cartage) |
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David Pennybaker Member From: Conroe, TX USA |
posted 13 August 2001 10:52 AM
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quote: How much do the *extras* end up costing? How many songs do they usually end up getting done in a 3-hr session? Or, to put it another way, how many sessions does it normally take to complete an album? I realize there's probably a large range on that. And the leader gets double that? ------------------ |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 13 August 2001 02:21 PM
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Wow! Some of you guys must be really fabulous players! As most of you have guessed...this is a very closely guarded secret, and the range runs the gamut from what I charge (never more than $250/session, even when I've done 6 songs!) to who knows how much. But I'm sure $5,000 is high...unless you're hiring Eric Clapton. Only the top players around here could charge $200/song. And they wouldn't do many sessions...with that rate. I don't believe in "pricing myself out of the market", so maybe this is why I get the session work that I do. How do you know when you're charging too much? Like any other business... it's when someone else does it better and cheaper. |
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Roger Miller Member From: Waterloo, Ia. |
posted 13 August 2001 08:05 PM
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Hey Bobbe, Ever do a session for chickens instead of cash? I got my wife some new teeth one time for doing Mexican Trilogy. |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 14 August 2001 01:01 PM
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The real money is if there is a 'back end' |
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John Steele Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada |
posted 14 August 2001 01:37 PM
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Larry, LOL ! It was great... a nice little yamaha U-12 upright. With a couple of AKG mics and the invaluable placement advice from Forumites, it sounded great. I'm still trying to figure out why he hired me for the job. When he asked me about my repertoire, I told him I only know 2 tunes; Bill Bailey, and Lush Life. -John |
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John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA |
posted 14 August 2001 01:44 PM
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One of the back-ends is the Special Payments Fund. All labels who are signatory to the union (ie all the majors) pay a percentage of their sales for records that sell more than 20,000 units into the SPF. At the end of the year, the total number of sessions on the books are divided into this fund, and there is a dollar amount determined per session. You get a check for the number of sessions played that year multiplied by the dollar amount per session. This adds up to a fair chunk for a studio player that does a lot of dates. Another back-end is residuals on jingle dates, which can be some fairly tall coin on a national spot that airs for a good while... David--the "extras" are the health/welfare contribution at about $40 a session/per player, plus cartage, which is generally in the $100-$200 per player for a round-trip cart (of course this money goes to the cartage company, not the player). If everyone is double scale, there is no double for the leader. One other interesting point is that there has to be a leader for every session (not counting the double-scale I mentioned). Soo, if you are doing an overdub by yourself, you are the leader, so it is double-scale for a one person overdub. Oh yeah, time and a half after 1:00PM on Saturday, and double on Sunday and holidays... Did I mention lots of paperwork for the employer... Hope this helps. [This message was edited by John Macy on 14 August 2001 at 01:54 PM.] [This message was edited by John Macy on 14 August 2001 at 01:56 PM.] |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 15 August 2001 12:38 PM
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The cartage doesn't always go to the cartage company, If I cart my own rack and set up, it goes to me and actually, the cartage is one way, the return is gratis. |
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John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA |
posted 15 August 2001 03:09 PM
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That's right, though I believe if you cart yourself, the fee is preset by the union. In my case, everyone I use on sessions is with a cartage company, with the exception of fiddle players and guys like Jerry Douglas. I'll try and go back and look at a contract and see what it was. |
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Michael Holland Member From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA |
posted 25 August 2001 04:08 PM
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I do demos in my home studio. I produce, arrange, engineer, program drums, play electric, acoustic and bass guitar, pedal and lap steel and dobro, mix, master, make copies and serve coffee. I make about minimum wage. |
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