Unless I'm wrong, there aren't many Hawaiian music combos in the Mainland. It seems like a "niche" genre. So are those of you who play in these types of settings doing better than our Rock and Country cousins? I don't need to know figures. I just want to know if you're paying off your mortgages, putting your kids through college, and buying clothes and jewelry for your wives without too much assistance from a crappy day job.

Because if you're not doing any of the above, then I'm seriously thinking of keeping my steeling efforts limited to the "practice room" and for 1-2 hours a day tops. Yes, I love the art. Yes, I love the culture and history. And for a pasty, haole Mainlander, I've been a pretty serious student of the language itself for at least a few years. But I'm also a realist.

I know at least several of you have been faced with making a choice between a career that allows you to live a decent lifestyle and one that's like a cactus: it sure is beautiful from a distance but it hurts when I hug it for too long.

So fire away, guys.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

If you don't mind my saying, 37 is really past the age when you should be launching a music career in my opinion. The life of a full time musician is hard and really the realm of those in their late teens and early 20's. At 37 you are heading into your peak earning years, or should be. In my opinion you should be focused on a more stable career at this point in your life and saving for retirement. At 37 you have time to develop a real career. The chances of making it in music and starting at your age are next to none in my opinion, although I'm sure someone will point out the exception that proves the rule.

Music is a wonderful hobbie and you can get more enjoyment out of it when it is not your main source of income as many people will attest.

Brad, i don't know how big your combo is or how long you played for, nor your specific market but, i know that's a very low rate in any market for a GB gig, which is what any party is, you got paid a club gig rate. you should have gotten MUCH more. Of course the client's budget may not allow for it but, bands working too cheaply under cuts the whole market. People have to be made to realize by not going too low that live music and especially skilled and unique live music is a rare commodity worth the cost.

One god example is a classical group that plays ceremonies often charges as much as 200$ per hour per musician, easily. They play classical and that's a dime a dozen in most areas. Hawaiian, that's rare.
Think about DJs depending on the they charge as much as $3000 per gig.

Know your value and convey that to your potential client.

As a reference point I've been in the general business live music and DJ biz for about 12 years. I now only play old nostalgia music in two bands. Hawaiian and swing, hot jazz, tango and I DJ. However, I used to run a band that would play any style and customize ever minute of music for a gig. Think $6000 and up for a 4 hour gig. If I hadn't of had to stop for a few years due to my disability (arthritis) and switching from guitar to steel, I could have been making around $100k per year. the wedding and private function biz can be very lucrative. Will it be very lucrative in your area? Who knows. it could be. One key is make your own bookings. Find a place that would hold a monthly luau. Promote the heck out of yourself. that helps to book gigs. Theme weddings are popular and luaus are one of those themes. Find a function hall or a 100 that would be interested in offering a luau package with you.

I think AJ has the right idea. If you have the courage, passion, and determination to be a professional musician, you should do it. It's not even about talent. Only a moderate amount of talent is required if you have the determination. 37 is not too old to make a living as a musician, unless you are trying to make it as a pop star sex symbol. Follow your bliss and have no regrets.

[This message was edited by Mitch Druckman on 24 August 2006 at 10:08 PM.]

You should listen to your old man more often.

Remember he said he wanted to make a lot of money. I would no more encourage him to choose music as a career if that is his motivation than I would suggest taking a second mortgage on his house to buy lottery tickets. The lottery tickets have a higher chance of being successful.

And again, we are not talking about people playing music past the age of 37. We are talking about launching a new career in music after the age of 37. It takes a hell of a lot more than passion. Establishing a name so that people will come out and see you, building an audience, developing an act, hiring musicians, getting booked: these things take a tremendous amount of time, money, energy, resources, and the willingness to starve. Hardly the realm of a middle-aged man who has a mortgage and family.

You don't start a sports career at 37. You don't start a dance career at 37. You don't start a music career at 37. But that doesn't mean you can't play with a local band, do gigs, even play regularly.

And the fact that he would even ask the question (twice as a matter of fact) rules him out in my opinion. The people that make it in that industry are the people that CAN'T do anything else. As my old acting teacher used to tell me, if you have to ask if you can make it, you can't.

When you see an 18 year old kid hitch hiking through Europe what do you think? You think about the freedom of youth, the lure of the open road etc. etc.

What do you think when you see a 58 year old guy on the side of the road with his thumb out?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 25 August 2006 at 09:00 AM.]

Gerald, wouldn't it be funny that the HSGA's mission of perpetuating the Hawaiian steel guitar came about not through an intent to educate the general public, but out of a "critical mass" of steel players' desire to pay the bills as per AJ's scenario?

[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 25 August 2006 at 11:49 AM.]

To ensure a future,
(a) keep the "jewel" bright by advancing the art of Hawaiian Steel Guitar in Hawaiian music (new compositions, new players, teachers...). Note Hawaii Music Awards has a section for new steel guitar music...

(b) think of steel guitar as a generic instrument whose playing and art forms may influence other kinds of music and also be influenced and morphed by them.

If you look at the settings of some shows like Real World, Strong Man competitions, Dog the Bounty Hunter, Lost you'll notice they're based in Hawai'i. Izrael Kamakawiwo'ole's music has been used in at least 5 movies as well as recent commercials like Rice Krispies among other products. He's even popular as a ring-tone download. A few movies of the last 5-7 years like "50 First Dates" and the other with Owen Wilson and Morgan Freeman (can't remember the others right now) are based there. Tourism is also on a fierce rise since 9/11.

So, George, because of this, I'm not nearly as pessimistic about Hawaiian music's future as I am about that of Rock and Pop. I think haoles will want to be reminded of one of the last, most accessible great places on earth when they're back in their sterile, humdrum Mainland lives. They've just been asleep to the music for too long.

More importantly nostalgia is coming back in a big way.

let's see in the last 6 years these movies have come out

Chicago
The Aviator,
king Kong
head in the Clouds
Idelwild

There's more I just don't remember them all

So while the general public is fed up with 'new' Jazz, nostalgia jazz they seem to be in to. Probably because, it's more melody, less bebop run on solos.
So with a nostalgia movement happening and hula classes popping up everywhere as well as hula-robics videos coming out, Lilo and Stitch being a successful movie and weekly/daily cartoon, Hawaiian is definitely coming to the forefront and even old Hawaiian. Ukes are becoming popular as a quick instrument to get in to. So steel is going to do this as well and it is..slowly.

Bill i agree with some of what you're saying but, your 'a lot of money' is not everyone else's lol. Sure he's not going to be a multi-millionaire but, you CAN make a respectable living. Your comparison of sports to music doesn't fly because, you can be in a wheel chair and still be a successful musician. The whole thought process you're applying here is more of becoming a rock star concept rather than a working successful musician in a respectable income bracket.

I wouldn't recommend he quit his day job overnight and I would recommend that he do it with business savvy rather than how many musicians do this. Which is with a total lack of understanding of business, legalities, etc. Thats' why they have to hire managers and agents and they lose a lot of money doing so. Until they're making enough money that they can afford these people,. they should know how to do it on their own.

It also depends on if he wants to only play Hawaiian or is he willing to say split his time with that and a cover band. Cover bands make easily (per member) $100k per year if they are spectacular.

We have that power and ability to do so. Keep a positive attitude. You never know what can happen. Trends go in cycles. It just needs to come around again.

Our private and corporate rates start at $100/man/hour, and often are more. We always take each job into consideration.

We've done wedding receptions with a Hawaiian theme where they wanted Hawaiian music played for the cocktail hour, but regular cover stuff later, which we could do. We've also done a TON of private luaus and pool parties with the Hawaiian retro theme. Our biggest audience for this material is the tikiphile group. Basically, those who really are into the whole retro '50's style tiki vibe. The numbers for those folks is on the rise, and we get a LOT of work because of them.

This stuff, combined with the instrumental guitar based surf goes over really big. Oh yeah, we're about the ONLY ones in a 200 mile radius that can do both, too, basically giving us first call on most any gigs that need what we do.

It can be done, but it's hard. Like AJ said, you have to hustle gigs. Actually, learn to play about any style, and you'll always work (especially if you play bass! )

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Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass

I challenge anyone to approach the young generation today on the subject of Hawaiian music. I'm reasonably certain all you'll get in at least 90% of the responses will be a blank stare. However most young folk will be aware of dixieland as the alternate to rock.

As a Canadian, I'm often perplexed wondering why the mainland USA music media industry does very little if anything to really promote the music of their most unique, popular and beautiful 50th state. New Orleans jazz (dixieland) can readily be heard somewhere on a regular basis on the mainland. Both of these states, (Hawai'i and New Orleans) have their own distinctive style of music, fantastic talents and great composers....even their own distinctive instruments: the banjo and the steel guitar!

I recall years ago, (about the time the Wright Brothers made their first flight) , airline "stewardesses" (naughty word !)
"hostesses" dawned muu-muu's or some colorful garmet in the "Hawaiian style" as the aircraft left the mainland bound for Hawai'i.. Passengers could also enjoy at least one channel of Hawaiian music on their headsets as the flight winged its way towards the Islands. Upon landing and as the aircraft approached the gate along the runway in HNL, most aircraft intercoms usually played Hawaiian music. This gesture added to the anticipated enjoyment and excitement mood as the passengers preparred to disembark the aircraft. Today, airlines seldom if ever play any Hawaiian music at anytime on their flights. Their in-flight head set channels consist of New Orleans jazz, hard rock, soft rock, classical music, country western, comededians, plus the nations top vocalists, etc. Never any Hawaiian music on any flight to Hawai'i !

Perhaps I am in error, however I get the strong impression more Hawaiin music is being heard in Japan and Holland than on the mainland U.S. (or here in Canada for that matter).

I may have wandered off the subject of this thread which Matt posted for which I apologize. However I feel it is all related. Making a living playing Hawaiian music is not a very lucritive profession these days. Of course, this may all depend upon where you live I suppose.

[This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 26 August 2006 at 02:44 AM.]

quote:

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listen to a haole

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How 'bout a ... Fricken Pake

Sorry, just some Myspace humor ...

In the immortal words of Larry the Cable Guy

quote:

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Lord, I apologize for that one there

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Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA

I might make some observations on the way you live life out in your neck of the woods, but I would never be so bold as to tell you how to live it.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 26 August 2006 at 06:06 AM.]

My statement is that the elders do try but most of the young people don't want to listen. My own family members could care less about the traditions of the west. They want it fast, easy and free. (Yes, I am a native)

Younger people like you are the ones that will pass on this great music. They don't want to listen to us old guys. Again, I apologize if I offended you. I respect what you do.

Now back to the topic.

Jeff, I believe you even said yourself in an earlier thread that innovation is a haole concept and that Hawaiians are more about preserving tradition. If there is any resentment that still lingers, I hope that whatever I and other musicians do here in the future with regard to perpetuating the "myth in the music" is understood to be from a business and survival standpoint, not from a culturally insensitive one.

[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 26 August 2006 at 09:49 AM.]

I didn't get to read Gary's post Jeff so i don't know what he said but, I sincerely hope that as important as cultural pride is, there is also a willingness to let other people in as well. I know the term haole can be derogatory? I believe a balance of respect for tradition as well as innovation is important to every musical style.

As for tastes, Keoki, I used to only listen to progressive rock. now I mainly play nostalgia music. people grow and if there's an opportunity, they will tune in eventually.

At Hawaiian themed gigs, folks are there to have FUN, good food, good drinks, and we contract with a hula dancer that is truly beautuful and talented. She is also the choreographer for a group in HI called Don Tiki. (Although it's hard to pay attention to the music when she is swaying in front of me)

I'm 46 and do this as a hobby. We each typically make about $225 per gig. Gig's are typically no longer than 3 hours with a 15 minute break each hour.

There are only a few bands out this way that I am familiar with, and they are my friends: King Kukulele and the Friki Tikis, APE, and The Mai Kai Gents.

But, since music's all I do, I also spend a HUGE amount of my day mailing contracts or CD's, talking to potential clients on the phone, writing tunes, rehearsing, writing charts, recording demos for the other guys, running to the bank, printer, practicing, etc., so I pretty much stay in music world most of the day.

There are days when I think I'd like to go back to the corporate gig for the extra money, more regimented routine, blah, blah..., but then I think about the flexibility, and the fact that our home life has been much less stressful, and more, I dunno... organic(?) than before. For us, it just works.

I found that playing with two other like-minded guys who can get into the Hawaiian hapa-haole stuff, as much as they can the swing, surf, blues, and whatever else we do makes it a lot easier. I was lucky that when I suggested the idea of doing the hapa-haole stuff, not only didn't they say I was crazy, but were enthusiastic about doing it. Since then, we've found it fills a LOT of holes in the gig schedule with all kinds of cool work. When we added the surf stuff, it really blossomed into a different kind of niche thing. The only part about it I don't like is having to move (and set up and tune)an electric upright bass, a Fender Jazz bass, and my D8 steel, plus the bass amp, and a P.A. system. I used to also bring a steel amp, but now just play through the guitarist's amp, and adjust the settings. Oh yeah, and do about 99% of the lead vocals (including when playing steel). It's a lot, but it's worth it.

Damn... I just realized... I think I need to be taking a bigger pay cut!

TJW

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Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass

I play in two bands and a duo, book classical musicians for functions and weddings, DJ for same, when it comes up i compose or sound deisgn for a film, commercial, multimedia/games or whatever. Then i also coach a guy in his home tudio on how to use his gear. So I don't do just one thing but, mainly because i can do a few and I'd get bored if I did only one thing.

Currently my nostalgia band will be working on putitng together a vaudeville/burlesque revue with the music.

I can obvsiously tell by your reply that your are, in essence, the physical condensation of the aloha spirit and all that it implies.

I'm curious to know how you put the wheels in motion once you made the decision.

For example, how did you choose your repertoire? How many tunes did you feel was necessary to learn for a party gig or lu'au? Was one hour of material enough to start on or did you not market yourselves until you had more?

By the way, the term haole is only derogatory if it's preceded by adjectives like "stupid", "fat", or some other obscenity.

[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 29 August 2006 at 11:36 AM.]