I have a decent foundation in theory, so I don't need any help finding chords or scales. I'm just not sure what to do as far as accompanying a chord progression. My experience so far with the lap steel has been single-line melodies, hence my preference for EADGBE tuning........becuase I know that tuning well. When I try to use chords is when I sound not so good. I just can't seem to make it fit.

What I need is help with transitioning between chords, typical runs, and just ideas in general. Is there any good instructional material with sound samples or a cd included that won't start me with the very basics?

I need someone who can sit beside me, listen to the song that my band wants me to add some steel to, and say "ok this is a blah blah blah progression, here's a nice little thing you can add to it".

I've finally come around to C6 and chords. I've got nicer equipment now as well.

You need a double neck. You say you have a solid understanding of the standard guitar tuning---why toss it out?? It will be nice for your melody playing and for blues and rock stuff.

If I were you and was starting out with a new tuning and wanted to really play some nice chords as you have stated, I would have someone make me a double neck 8/6 instrument. Put the standard guitar tuning on the 6 string neck and put the Leavitt tuning on the 8 string neck. You can play more modern chords on the Leavitt tuning than you can on C6.

The C6 tuning will always herd you towards that classic C6 sound that is fine for Western swing or old Hank country, but it is such a dated sound. If that is what you are looking for then fine, but if you are looking for a more modern sound in chord progressions and -7b5,#9,diminished, augmented etc chords, then check out the Leavitt tuning before you totally commit to C6.

Maybe you need a triple neck.....:-)

I'm not in the market to buy an 8-string. I need to stop buying and start playing.

Then you basically have a double neck already in the configuration you are using.

As I said, if you are fine with the retro/dated C6 leanings then proceed with the C6.

If you find that you need some more modern jazz style chords then investigate the Leavitt.

There will come a time in your steel journey that 8 strings or even more will become your friend also.

Jazz is not one of my influences.

Do you have mp3 examples of other tunings you could send me?

Various tunings

Some more tunings

Tell us what you think afterwards.

C6 and E9 both have their places.

but I still have plenty to listen to.

But also can be the minor chord 1 if you don't play 2nd string

5+6 together is a diminised type chord

P5 is good too. like a II7
But also 2 frets down from one as a transition chord to I or IV.

Drop down to string 8 and up 3 frets for the minor of I

There are a lot of different song titles other than Hawaiian song titles on the HSGA site.

Kay Das has many pop songs at the HSGA site.

The following are just a sampling of other songs on steel guitar by a variety of steelers:

Fascinatin' Rhythm
Under Paris Skies
I Feel Pretty (West Side Story)
An Orange Grove In California
Poinciana
J'Attendrai
Arrivederci Roma
Stars Fell On Alabama
Smoke Rings
I'm Getting Sentimental Over You
Indian Love Call
Singing Bamboo
Little Coquette
I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You
Lover
Nuages
Summer Song
Jazzin' the Strings

Keep on listening. These recordings have other tunings besides C6th. It is too bad they did not give the tunings on each selection.

Good hunting.

Aloha,
Don

C 6th is a grate tuning ! if you can get
Ray to show you what your after , you won't
go wrong . I use E 6th & C 6th & play out
regularly , I find that C6th will do what you
want it to do on 90 % of the "Real " Country
sounds - plus - a grate number of song listed
above . As for instruction , I would like to
have Ray show me a thing or two , ( or three )
He knows ALL the tricks .

Hick

"I'm just not sure what to do as far as accompanying a chord progression. My experience so far with the lap steel has been single-line melodies, hence my preference for EADGBE tuning........becuase I know that tuning well. When I try to use chords is when I sound not so good. I just can't seem to make it fit."

I've read some other threads you've posted and it sounds like you have a solid music/guitar foundation, which means you've got a good ear. If you want to know WHAT to play (with both chords & single note lines), you can start by just listening to Don Helms with Hank Sr. His parts are up front, and the arrangments tend to be guitar, fiddle, steel. Nice and sparce. You can't miss what Helms is doing, and he shows you both chords and single note stuff in just about every song he plays on.

Others will point out that Helms did not play C6, but I'm just suggesting this so that you can get an idea of what KIND of parts you can play, where chords fit, how chord pads transition into and from single-note or double-stop lines.

For a less-traditional, more modern example of great steel playing, check out the stuff Greg Leisz recorded on Bill Frisell's albums (not all of it is lap steel, there's some pedal steel):
Good Dog, Happy Man
Blues Dream

Again, these are just suggestions for listening. It's hard to beat Greg Leisz, who shows very well when to pad with chords and when to add something ornamental. He gets outside of the box, sometimes, but he plays some very traditional stuff too. You can also hear him on KD Lang's first album, with Trail of Broken Hearts.

So I think what's very important right now, while you explore tunings, is that you grab some essential listening. There've been many threads about the essential Hawaiian songs, the essential Western Swing songs. Use the search feature here and get some of these recordings. Don Kona Woods got you started on some listening ideas too!

[This message was edited by Chris Walke on 30 September 2006 at 08:45 AM.]

I think you should just buy a PSG. With your knowledge of theory, harmony, and chord structure, you'll eventually get dissatisfied with the limitations of NP. This isn't a slam against NP. It's just that all those bar slants and such won't give you nearly the number of potentially sophisticated voicings and chordal glissandos you can get with pedals and knee levers when you need them.

But I realize PSG is not in everyone's budget either. Just my too sense.

[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 30 September 2006 at 09:52 AM.]

Next to JB ... you won't find a finer "executioner" of multi-string combinations on C6 (C6/A7) ... than Ray Montee.

------------------

Dustpans LTD.
The Casteels
HSGA

quote:

---

(sic) 6th tuning / sound is outdated....

---

Yea, I noticed that in Jr. Brown's music. ...And he barely get's out of Mixolydian.

I live in Beaverton and can teach you C6th.

I have other students and lots of material and tablature in C6th.
I could get you started and give you enough to work on for a year in one lesson.

Call me and leave a message if you are interested.

Chord comping is done with chord partials for the most part with your C6 tuning. Try and use a good chord generator found on the net, and map out at least 3 or 4 voicings for the same chord that sounds good to your ear. When you have a chord dictionary made, try playing a song as if your the only rhythm instrument in a band and just play the chords as if your playing the song with a band. Once you can do that, you know where there are first choice positions to superimpose scales and arpeggios. Mix your lines and chords together where you can and gliss from one point to the next as musch as possible. Next add harmonics here and there.

while playing along with tracks. I'm realizing that I'm getting there, I just don't like being a beginner again. I'm not wowed and amazed by the basics like I was when I was really was a newcomer to playing music.

Technique comes easily for me on this instrument, it feels very intuitive. I like my tone as well. I just feel like my licks are cliche, so I need to keep experimenting.

I'm pasting some of the clips that keep me inspired.

Friends of Dean Martinez:

FDOM2

This link sometimes works, and sometimes times not. It's has some nice ebow usage.
FDOM1

And Calexico, this doesn't have much steel guitar, just an intro and a solo. Sounds like pedal-steel, maybe.
Calexico

not exactly traditional. Opinions?

[This message was edited by James Mayer on 02 October 2006 at 11:03 AM.]

I'm kind of in the same shoes as you are - we seem to have similar musical tastes, with me it also was the Friends Of Dean Martinez that made me take up playing lap steel, and Calexico is one of my all-time favorite bands (and their steel player, Paul Niehaus, does indeed play pedal steel, not lap steel - and is also a quite good Telecaster-twanger).

I just joined a band that plays kind of singer-songwriter/folk-oriented alt.country - mostly original stuff, but some covers of songs by Steve Earle, Townes Van Zandt, etc.
Now, I only took up lap steel playing (in C6 tuning) about 8 or 9 months ago, and I'm far from being an expert, but here's some tricks how I get by playing with a band (that has not noticed my lack of technique yet...):

-) learn some positions for the most important chord types - major, minor, 6th, 7th; just try to play arpeggios on those positions, try to connect them by sliding into them from the previous position; sometimes you can also play simple solos in one chord position; I also like imitating keyboard chord pads by strumming these chords and slowly fading them in with a volume pedal;

-) learn the double-note scales in thirds and sixths; these are also used a lot in country music with regular (Spanish) guitars, and on lap steel they are particularly useful for connecting chords or doing call-and-response licks with the singer;

-) single note playing goes a long way with lap steel - on some of the Townes Van Zandt covers we play ("Pancho and Lefty", "Tecumseh Valley", etc.) I try to imitate the fiddle lines from the original recordings; with Calexico songs you might try following the trumpet lines;

-) learn the blues scale (minor pentatonic, with some passing notes) and the major pentatonic scale in two or three positions, it is very useful for playing around chords, or outlining them.

-) while I love the the lap steel playing on a lot of old Western Swing and Honkytonk songs, I don't strive for that kind of playing myself (and besides, I guess it needs more technical proficiency than I could muster at the moment, and also, since that type of playing is so classic, there's always the danger of sounding cliched if trying to imitate it).

Here are some more listening tips for less traditional lap steel playing:
I guess you are familiar with Ben Harper - if not, check out some of his stuff, particularly his first album, "Welcome to the Cruel World");
some of the tracks on Jenny Lewis with The Watson Twins debut, "Rabbit Fur Coat", have some tasty modern lap steel playing (by an unnamed steeler);
The Vanduras have a great album with surf/spaghetti western type instrumentals, kind of a less experimental FODM;
and of course, Greg Leisz is one of the greatest contemporary lap steel players, found on numerous recordings from jazz to alt.country, I want to point out Loudon Wainwright's latest, "Here Come the Choppers", as well as one of his very first recordings in the 1980s, one of my all-time favorite songs, "Mother Of Earth" by The Gun Club ("Miami" album), where he plays really spooky, eerie, haunting lines on the lap steel.

[This message was edited by Roman Sonnleitner on 02 October 2006 at 03:27 PM.]