Here's the key chart: http://www.homestead.com/dennysguitars/092901_5.html

this is either the work of a genius or a madman - maybe both. I've never seen advanced theory applied to lap steel before. The presentation is a bit daunting, but there is some excellent info here. I used some of these concepts already but didn't conceptualize them in the way the author presents. I've always kind of avoided the modal approach in the past as I can't seem to think that fast when the chords are flying by but this site makes me want to re-visit my approach.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 18 January 2003 at 05:35 AM.]

Isn't the human brain amazing? Greats like Jerry Byrd and others (including many of us here on the forum) all have that complex stuff packed away in their brains. And they never had to read any of this literature!

It's sorta like the difference between making a peanut butter & jelly sandwich yourself and writing out all the programming necessary to teach a robot how to do it... or something.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 18 January 2003 at 03:52 PM.]

I thought I knew theory, but this site makes me feel like a newbie!

I wonder if the author can play.
Maybe he's just a mathamatition.

I like this chart.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 18 January 2003 at 04:25 PM.]

Thanks much for posting the link, Andy.

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 21 January 2003 at 07:43 AM.]

It's really a lot like learning to play your first pentatonic scales on the standard guitar where you have moveable box positions with notes that fit the chord progression. you then simply slide the box forms up and down the fret board based on the 1st or 6 string root of the key without worrying much about names of notes.

This system is the same thing using major scales. The real trick to making this work on lap steel is conceptual - knowing where to start the scales and move the template based on the chords in the key you're playing - that and adding inflections, passing tones, neighbor tones, etc. so it sounds like music instead of scales.

I applied Denny's chart to Blue Bossa in BIAB and in 5 minutes I was playing jazz and much more fluidly then I'd ever done before on lap steel. At least for me, a door has been unlocked.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 21 January 2003 at 08:16 AM.]

One of the modes that I hear some steelers use alot for dominant chords (Buddy Emmons uses this frequently to baffle his followers) is the Locrian mode of the melodic minor scale, which is used for altered chords.
For example, the C melodic minor scale is (in jazz, not classical) the same ascending as descending, and contains these notes:
C D Eb F G A B C

If you ran the Locrian mode, (B to B) it fits beautifully over B altered.
B C D Eb F G A B C

Another simple way to remember it is "To play the Locrian mode for altered chords, use the melodic minor a half step up from the root". e.g. G altered = Ab melodic minor. It's very cool.

quote:

---

I posted some of this info on the forum a while ago and nearly got laughed off.

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For Byron

Summertime in C minor
     C-7
D 1--------3---3-----------
C 2--3---3-------3---------
A 3----3-----3-----3-------
G 4------------------3-----
E 5------------------------
C 6---------------------3--
Bb major scale
(I know this isn't the first pattern you
might choose for it, but it illustrates the point.)
 
1----------3---------
2------------3--5--6-
3------2--3----------
4----3---------------
5--3-----------------
6--------------------
So, using the same notes, but instead going
from C to C (Dorian mode) for C minor 7th:
1----------3-------------
2------------3--5--6--8--
3----2--3----------------
4--3---------------------
5------------------------
6------------------------
That scale contains every note in the
 melody of Summertime. 
Of course, you might sooner use the scale pattern here;
1-----------5--------
2-------------5-6-8--
3---------5----------
4----5-6-------------
5--5-----------------
6--------------------
Or starting on the 6th string on the 8th fret, wherever you like. 
            .................
With regard to the altered chord/scale 
reference I made before; 
I stole this lick from Buddy Emmons' ride
 on "When you and I were young Maggie" on
 the Bell Cove video... It uses the altered
 scale (locrian mode of the melodic minor)
 to make the I chord (E) into an altered
 chord before moving to the IV chord (A)... 
pickup   E                E alt          A
1-------|----------|---11~10-----------|--
2-------|----------|-------------------|--
3-------|-16-------|-------------------|--
4----16-|-16----16-|---------11~10-----|--
5-16----|----16----|-9-------------10--|-9
6-------|-16-------|-------------------|--
..3...4...1.2.3...4..1.2...3.....4.......1.
Look at the point E turns into E Alt.
The melodic minor scale a half-step up from 
E is F mel. minor, so:
   F melodic minor scale
1-------------10------------
2----------------10-11--13--
3----------10---------------
4----10-11------------------
5-10------------------------
6---------------------------

I know it seems like a head twister, but it's true. Alot of the modes are less
useful, but some are very cool, like the
altered mode above.
-John
With apologies to George Gershwin

[This message was edited by John Steele on 21 January 2003 at 06:50 PM.]

Denny Turner is a right on teacher and a very cool guy. One thing to understand about modes is that they are inversions of their parent major scale. The reason we use modes instead of just a major scale where all of the same notes are found that you would need, is due to the fact that the first, third, fifth and seventh note of any mode spells a specific chord and thus helps to outline the harmony of the moment. This is why jazz guys speak of the "chord/scale". A mode is just a chord with all of it's upper extensions laid out like a scale.

One of the things about Denny's approach I find helpful is the fact that C6 is really the Dom. 7/Mixolydian position and it is also the same notes of a Major 7th chord a perfect fourth above the root of the C6 or C7 chord, which would be F major 7. This is what Denny means when he talks about the G6 chord being a substitute for the C major 7 or major 9 chord, used alot in Hawaiian music. The extensions found two frets up or down relative to the quality of the chord you are using is completely correct. Denny sent me some charts last Xmas not found on his site and it all makes perfect sense. Being able to play jazz makes you a better western swing player for sure.

Denny uses the 1, 4, 5 chord progression to demonstrate some of the practical ways of using his approach. Lets say we are in the key of E, fourth fret on a C6 tuning. The E6 chord is also E7 or E9 when you go down two frets to grab the extensions of the Dom. chord. When the progression changes to the fourth chord (A), you can stay on the one chord (E6) because it's notes spell a non root A major 7 or 9 chord. A non root chord means in this case, the A note is missing. This is O.K. because the rest of the band will fill in the A note sound. When the chord progression changes to the fifth chord (B), all you have to do is go up two frets to F#6, which is the same notes as B major 7 or 9. Denny says this is much like the E, A and B chords one finds down at the nut on a guitar.

The fun starts to happen when you use slants to go up and down the neck to connect to A6 (9th fret) and B6 (11th fret) using the extensions two frets down on these chords to grab Dom 7th sounds. When the progression goes back to the one chord (E), you can stay on the B6 chord (11th fret) to get an E major 7 or 9 chord. It's the perfect 4th substitution again. On this type of E major 7 or 9 chord (11th fret) you can go up or down two frets and find great double string harmonies. What's cool about this approach is that you are working with about a 5 fret reach between everything. The dim. and aolean scale (natural minor) are right there as well at the top of the reach.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 22 January 2003 at 08:24 AM.]

quote:

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The 7th mode of melodic minor is called the "super locrian" or "altered scale". I use it on e.g. "E7+9 or E7b9". You get an instant out side sound.

---

The trick is when you see or hear that V chord coming, play melodic minor a half step up from the V chord.

A major scale has what is called an avoid note, the 4th. Like John pointed out, it messes with the major 3d of the major scale. You can still play it, just dont hang on it. Of course it depends what chord is being played, the two chord is Dorian and it has no avoid note. You have to watch out for a major triads 3rd and 4th with each other and not hang on the 4th so it makes the chord sound suspended. Jim, I thought it sounded nice as well. Thanks...

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 23 January 2003 at 09:10 PM.]

"...I found a few minor errors and fixed them ... now pointed out on the mode / scale
chart. No biggie, it's just that an error can make someone sprain their
brain trying to reconcile it. I also adjusted a few typos and things on
several charts and lesson texts to help with the "daunting" clarity.

I am adding "page last updated" notices so folks can go see if there is
anything new on the pages. Of course they will have to click their
*refresh* buttons if their history function saves pages with no auto-update."

quote:

---

To play the Locrian mode for altered chords, use the melodic minor a half step up from the root

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------------------
Aloha,
Denny T~ www.dennysguitars.homestead.com/home1.html

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 07 May 2003 at 05:55 AM.]

I have been wanting to re-examine my use of modes, and add the ones I have forgotten the specifics of over the last 25 years since my Berklee days. Merci!
I had completely forgotten Locrian... even if I did still use it... It is in an arab flavord mandolin solo on one of my salsa / bebop tunes.

My late modal teacher John Neves used to play bass for Dizzy G when he came to Boston without a band, so he was pretty thorough. But it was a long time ago. Nice to have a refresher course especialy when learning a new instrument, in this case PSG. But I will also apply this to mandolin.

But even now it still gives brain cramps!

John S. the link to BE's Farm Boy was cool too. Buddy seems to have had some really good theory gurus around him over the years.

I just stuck a Bb7alt in m6 of the Out Of Nowhere changes and tried the BE lick with your trombone test changes... interesting.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 May 2003 at 03:34 AM.]