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 Concerning Union and extra dues?
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| Author | Topic: Concerning Union and extra dues? |
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Tony Farr Member From: Madison, Tennessee, USA |
posted 06 December 2002 06:34 AM
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I have been told that our union will be adding and extra $30 or so to union dues to pay for the remodeling that was done to union hall. How many of you guys think this is right? I don't remember voting on anything like this. Is the union broke? If so, how could that be with all the members there are, and the amount of dues each one pays each year. |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 06 December 2002 08:04 AM
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Workers of the world unite! Cast off the yoke of capitalist oppression! Death to the fascist insect that preys on the life of the people! |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 06 December 2002 08:57 AM
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.....The Union ALWAYS knows what's best for you and doesn't want to concern you with minor details.....  |
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Pete Burak Member From: Portland, OR USA |
posted 06 December 2002 09:51 AM
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I understand it's a "No Smoking" Union Hall now also. Did they tell ya that?!?! |
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B.Jenkins Member From: Parkersburg, WV...U.S.A |
posted 06 December 2002 10:11 AM
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And they have decided it's about time they have wall to wall floors also.. |
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Smiley Roberts Member From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075 |
posted 06 December 2002 11:47 AM
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I don't know about unions anywhere else but, the NashVILE musicians' union is TOTALLY WORTHLESS. I was a member for 32 yrs.,& got very little or nothing from them! In 32 yrs., MPTF jobs averaged out to 2 jobs every 5 yrs! You call that 'help"?? All they want is MONEY,MONEY,MONEY!! Nothing in return. All they care about is the "A Team" musicians. They don't give a damn about the club,or road pickers,& they are the majority of the membership! ------------------ |
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Mark Herrick Member From: Los Angeles, CA |
posted 06 December 2002 02:54 PM
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In the words of a classic Frank Zappa song: Hi and howdy doody You know I'm pleased to greet ya I hope the bulge |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 06 December 2002 03:10 PM
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The only time I've been stiffed by a venue, we had a Union Contract. They were no help at all. That was in 1980. I haven't renewed since. |
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Roy Ayres Member From: Starke, Florida, USA |
posted 06 December 2002 03:15 PM
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Who says the union doesn't do anything for us? Years ago in Louisville the secretary of our Local showed up at a club where I was playing and noticed our trumpet man wearing the loud "argyle" socks that were popular at that time. A couple of weeks later the Local passed a new regulation prohibiting argyle socks on the bandstand. Glory be! I had waited for years for that! I'm sure the world is now a better place. |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 06 December 2002 03:33 PM
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...Roy, everything works for the good...  www.genejones.com |
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Roy Ayres Member From: Starke, Florida, USA |
posted 06 December 2002 03:37 PM
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Gene: I simply can't believe it. That's the greatest (and quickest) response I've ever seen. Roy |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 06 December 2002 03:45 PM
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Smiley ranted: quote:What do they do for the A Team musicians? [This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 06 December 2002 at 03:46 PM.] |
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Richard Bass Member From: Hendersonville, Tn |
posted 06 December 2002 04:11 PM
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I have to agree with Smiley, the union does next to nothing for the road and club pickers other than collect dues, and hassle you in the clubs. I was a member for 31 yrs. Took my VERY SMALL pension and left the union. Richard |
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Roy Ayres Member From: Starke, Florida, USA |
posted 06 December 2002 04:20 PM
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Some of you younger steelers probably don't know about the "Petrillo" fund of years ago. Petrillo (sp?) was president of the national musicians union. He set up a fund to produce jobs for musicians. We were assessed a pecentage of our income, which went into the fund. Then, the locals would book jobs at hospitals, jails, etc. and "draft" musicians to play the gigs. They would pay us $9.00 per gig out of the fund. I suppose we wouldn't have survived financially without that wonderful assistance. I was making a good salary with Pee Wee King at the time, and it cost me a few hundred each year -- for an average yearly take of about $18.00. Most of the union's income went for "administrative expenses." |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 06 December 2002 07:28 PM
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Roy I hear you....fortunately, I made just about enough from those "state hospital" jobs to break even on my dues! www.genejones.com |
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Ken Lang Member From: Simi Valley, Ca |
posted 06 December 2002 07:46 PM
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Iwas a member of the American Federation of Moochers (local 134) for 30+ years. I finally realized my contribution was better served going to charity rather than an institute for the brain dead. |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 06 December 2002 08:13 PM
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Wobble 'um!! |
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Mike Sweeney Member From: Nashville,TN,USA |
posted 07 December 2002 02:34 PM
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Pension? Not for guys and gals in the clubs here. Every club gig [sit-down] I've had in Nashville had a union contract but, nothing went in to my pension. I asked why at the union one day and they said it was voluntary for the employer. So I asked them about non-union recording sessions and they said that was because union sessions paid into the pension and that's the main reason they wanted us to do union sessions. I said I thought the pension was voluntary. They had no answer. Mike Sweeney |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 07 December 2002 03:06 PM
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Paying the Local dues to the Union where I was a member wasn't too bad.........what I resented were those "road taxes" from all the other Locals where we just passed through on tour. Sometimes they were already camped out waiting for us when we got there...and at other times they just dunned us by mail after we got back home. Of course the worst offense was those occasions after I had already left a band and they had hired someone else who didn't have a Union card, so they just put "my union number" on the contract....guess who got billed for the road tax? |
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Richard Bass Member From: Hendersonville, Tn |
posted 07 December 2002 04:22 PM
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Voluntary by the employer. Ha! what a joke. 98% of the work I did for over 30 yrs no one voluntered to pay extra money into my pension fund. Some sessions, TV shows, and the Opry were the only contributers to the fund. To all you young players, start a retirement fund, IRA,KEOGH,etc,the union will not take care of you. Believe me, if we are lucky, we all will get old. Start planning now. I wish I had. Richard |
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chas smith Member From: Encino, CA, USA |
posted 07 December 2002 06:28 PM
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In addition to my union dues each year, I pay 3% of everything I earn that goes through the union. I would complain except that without the union, it's unlikely I would have been paid at all. I took a call a few years ago that the music editor warned me was "non-union Disney". What I learned afterwards was, if Disney doesn't feel like paying or doesn't have to, they won't and what am I/you going to do. They have a phalanx of lawyers whose job it is to protect the company's money. I got paid about 4 months later because I got another call to play on a union gig. |
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CrowBear Schmitt Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France |
posted 07 December 2002 06:48 PM
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is the Union responsible for that popular Xpression so often used among Musicians: "i've paid my Dues " ??? Does a Musician who plays in Church have to pay Dues too ? |
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Smiley Roberts Member From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075 |
posted 08 December 2002 03:43 AM
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To "Earnest Bovine" "What do they do for the "A Team" musicians??" They make sure they get all of the "cream of the crop" jobs. Then,if the player demands "double scale",they "okay" it. But then,half of that,most likely,gets "kicked-back" to the "producer",to "insure" that they get on their next session! But,I'll guarantee you,you'll find more of the "executive board" doing "scab" sessions than anyone. It's nothing but favoritism & politics. If you don't "kiss-ass" in this town,you don't get anywhere!! It's not what you know,it's WHO you know!! I'm a far cry from a Emmons, Hughey,or Green,etc.,but I've heard guys on tv shows,& sessions,that couldn't even carry my guitar case,EMPTY!! They continued to get the "jobs",for obvious reasons,stated above. I would check out the MPTF jobs listing in our local paper. Some GUYS got more jobs in ONE MONTH than I would ALL YEAR. The bottom line is FAVORITISM!! Now,if you wanna call that,"ranting",I'll "rant" all day long! The NashVILE musician's union is BIG JOKE!! ------------------ |
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Bill Crook Member From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance |
posted 08 December 2002 06:54 AM
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I cannot print here what I told the Union to do..... We were playing a small benefit for a dude that had a very bad accident. The total take of the gig was less than $500.00. Our part of the gig was less than 30 minutes. Almost not even worth setting up for. At one point,as we were takin' a break so the announcer could say something,this dude comes up and ask me if we were union and had we cleared this contract with the local officials?? What I did could have landed me in jail had not the whole band backed me up !! The "Nashville" union hall dosen't care about anything but it's own self-preservation and keeping it's own pockets full at your expence. All thoughts here are strickly my own, I do NOT speak for everyone in the Nashville area. If I paid Union dues, I would not even begin to break even on my yearly expences. Even as a "Non-Pro" player, I have cost related with this "Hobby" of mine. Why should I have to pay some a$$-hole a percentage of monies earned which often dosen't even meet the the break-even point of playing the gig?? Unions,in the beginning,were very helpful in protecting the rights and etc,etc of the un-educated workers who were being taken advantage of by the the fat-cats. It worked very well for a while untill some-one decided that "Hey, I can make a really good living off of these dumb suckers". After that,it went to hell. The Union is NOT your friend !!
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 08 December 2002 12:02 PM
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Smiley, Nice rant! quote: I didn't know that the Nashville Union tells the employers which musicians to hire. That practice (the "hiring hall") is common in many other labor unions, but I've never heard of a musicians' or actors' local doing that. They certainly don't do it here in Los Angeles.
quote:Kickbacks can occur when the union (or gov't)minimum wage is higher than the market wage. We used to hear about them here in LA once in a while, but now most of the wage scales are more realistic. You would never see kickbacks where a player is getting over scale. Producers have smarter ways to steal the record company budget.
quote:If you want to work scab dates, your best bet is to work them with union officers. |
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Mike Sweeney Member From: Nashville,TN,USA |
posted 08 December 2002 01:04 PM
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Mr. Bovine, Most of us have worked off card sessions with board members. So if I get called before the board for playing those dates I will NOT go down alone. And when you let them know that the whole matter is a big mistake. Mike Sweeney |
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John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA |
posted 09 December 2002 08:37 AM
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I'd have to agree with Smiley that the Union tends not to do much for the road/club players. The Union here in Denver really only caters to the Symphony and theatre gigs. I would have to disagree on some other points. I have been a signatory employer with the Nashville union for many years. There has been zero pressure or influence on who to hire. I have used many double scale players over the years, and my checks go are made direct to them, and I sure ain't getting nothing back. I highly, highly doubt any player is kicking back to the producers. A Team players, whether in Tennessee, LA or wherever, get hired cause they deliver the goods, have the right attitude and an open mind to what's needed. Does that make them the best players in the world? Maybe yes, maybe no. But all the schmoozing, kickbacks, and whatever don't matter when the red light goes on. I spend a lot of time with with A players outside the studio. Do I get invited to have dinner at their homes cause they're schmoozing for work? Heck no--half the time they are too booked to work for me anyway. It's just friendship, which gets mistaken for politics all the time. People like to work with people they are comfortable with. Oh yeah, this was about the union... |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 09 December 2002 08:53 AM
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quote:Maybe the Union goon squad spared you because you hired the right players. [This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 09 December 2002 at 09:34 AM.] |
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Roy Ayres Member From: Starke, Florida, USA |
posted 09 December 2002 10:13 AM
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Speak for yourself, John. My experiences have been just the opposite. While I was in college I was asked to play a noon radio show, which fit in well with my class schedule. I played the gig for a week, and we were to go by the sponsor's store to pick up our checks on the weekend. When I picked up my check it was for exactly one half of the amount it should have been based on scale for radio shows. I asked if they "held back" due to a cut-off date on their payroll. I was told that the sponsor had contacted the local and they had agreed to let him pay half scale. None of the musicians were told of this "special arrangement." I told them that was not the deal I had made so I wouldn't be back on Monday. When I didn't show up on Monday for the show, he reported it to the local and I was fined for breaking the contract. I feel that I don't need some third party such as a union to protect me. If I'm not good enough to cut the part, don't hire me just because I have been forced to pay dues to an organization that purports to be there to protect my interests. Just let them hire someone who DOES need the so-called protection and I'll go somewhere else where I can be paid based on my performance. |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 09 December 2002 10:29 AM
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quote:You can probabaly get a small claims judgnment for the amount on the contract. |
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Jimmie Misenheimer Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A. |
posted 09 December 2002 04:58 PM
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Many years ago, I had to join Local #3 in Indianapolis to work at the "Little Nashville Opry". I sorta figured where this would be going at our "interductary meeting", when some cat giving a speech no less than 3 times made referance to the fact that ALL union musicians were GOOD musicians, and NO non-union musician could POSSABLY be a GOOD musician!! By the by - - I had already a couple of 'em before I went up to join... Blue, 32, and a Shriner
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Roy Ayres Member From: Starke, Florida, USA |
posted 09 December 2002 06:33 PM
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Gene: I break out laughing each time I look at those Argyle sox you are wearing in that picture above. What you needed to go with those was a Paisley guitar. BTW, is that a double-necked Supro? |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 09 December 2002 07:18 PM
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Roy, I think it was a Supro,it had that white with black swirls plastic toilet seat covering...I traded the single neck that came with the amp you see behind me, for it. (Sears or Wards..I don't remember which). That two neck 6-stringer with a DeArmand foot pedal was state of the art. I later bought a stand for it and played standing (like Leon). By the way, to stay on Topic...this is the guitar I used when I "auditioned" for my Union card. (Remember when you had to audition BEFORE they would take your $175.00 check?) Gene [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 10 December 2002 at 04:44 AM.] |
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retcop88 unregistered |
posted 10 December 2002 05:56 AM
How about being in a Police Union? Where you can't strike if treated unfair,where automatic raises are up to political appointed non union officials who do like their asses kissed? Now there are some good sides to local 257. Look at the great cars they drive in and homes they live in.Look at the cars as they park them right up to the door when they worked the Opry.And look at the great pension they have with medical benefits.And look how they fought hard to let Musicians use bigger tip Jars in Downtown Nashville so they could make more money and afford their Parking and yearly dues.I certainly enjoyed seeing who played the Class A venues in town (no tip jars there)When there were class A venues in Nashburg.And look how union members (Steel Players )are released ,Fired, to compact a band and save money in some clubs. Wonder if any unemployment can be collected or if the Union quickly sends a work jobs list to help with employment. But I guess they need a new hall in nashburg to keep up wit unsuspectin new arrivals daily on their way to stardom and the tip jar. But look at the brightside folks,where would we be today(in Nashville) without the Unions? Imagine having to work on an assembly line in Detroit for 25.00 an hour instead of 40.and actually put all the parts on right.(one that isn't closed that is)Why how would one get by? Merry Xmas everyone. Jim Hall [This message was edited by retcop88 on 10 December 2002 at 06:19 AM.] |
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