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Author
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Topic: 2nd Lower ? for Push-Pull
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Craig A Davidson
Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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posted 17 March 2001 07:16 AM
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I don't do this often enough. Which screw adjusts the C# and which adjusts for the D on the second string lower. I just answered this for someone a month or so ago. I am now having a brain warp and can't remember. Help!  ------------------
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Bobby Bowman
Member From: Cypress, Texas, USA
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posted 17 March 2001 07:54 AM
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Craig,
Assuming that it is set up "factory style" with the spring that pulls the raise finger all the way up against the cabinet, then the top screw (with guitar set upright) is the stop for the C# and the bottom screw is the half stop tuning adjustment.
BB------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
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Craig A Davidson
Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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posted 17 March 2001 08:16 AM
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Thanks Bobby |
Bob Knight
Member From: Bowling Green KY
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posted 17 March 2001 08:51 AM
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BB,
I got mine set up the way you showed me, and it works perfect.Thanks Bro' ------------------
Bob
'71 Emmons D10, 8&4
'75 Zum (Lacquer)D10, 8&6
1.2 Stewart World
Peavey TransTube Fex
Peavey 112Es
Korg DTR-1
 [This message was edited by Bob Knight on 17 March 2001 at 08:53 AM.]
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 17 March 2001 09:21 AM
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Can anybody post some pics of how this is done. I'd like to give this a try.Thanks
David
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Bobby Bowman
Member From: Cypress, Texas, USA
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posted 17 March 2001 12:06 PM
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David,
I don't know how to post pictures, but I'll try to write you a picture.
First off let me say, if you both raise and lower the second string, the Emmons push pull half stop method will not work. You'll probably have to have some parts made and go to a system more simular to all pull guitars. Or, you can use other strings, even on the C-6 neck, (actually prefered if that lever does not do anything else on the C-6) to use as a half stop feel and tuner.
Now, if all you do to the second string is lower it and you want a half stop at D on the way to C#, here is how you do it.
Get a lower return spring set (just like the ones that return the lowering fingers,,,the whole set). If you don't have one then you'll have to use you imagination to come up with an appropiate spring. On double neck guitars that have a D for the first string and they don't do anything to that string, I'll rob that return spring and just run the lower stop screw in to hold the lower finger against the cabinet. You can rob a return spring off of any string that does not move. You can rob one off a string that only raises, but you have to be carefull when running the lower stop screw in to not cause binding in the raise finger. Detune the second string to a lower pitch to keep from possibly breaking it when you raise it up to D# in a little while. Loosen the set screws on the push rod collars. There usually are three of them and one sleeve tube. Back the push rod out enough to remove the sleeve and that first collar. Then attach the return spring to the top hole in the raise finger (with the guitar upside down) and run the short 1/8" rod through the push rod hole for the first or third string, slip the collar over the end that is sticking through, pull just enough tension on the spring to bring the raise finger up against the cabinet and tighten the set screw in the collar. Now, with the tuning key, tune the second string to D#. Then adjust the lowering screw while pushing on the second string finger so that it comes down to C#. Release it so it comes back to the cabinet and run the push rod through the lowering actuator and makes contact with the raise finger. Slip the collar at the bell crank up next to the bell crank and tighten it. The other collar should be brought up to the bracket and with just a hair of slack (a 64'th or 32'nd) tighten it. Now, the adjustment screw that you would normally use to adjust your open pitch (after tuning a dominant raise) is what you tune the half stop with.
By adjusting the tension of the lower return spring (down next to the cabinet) you can usually get a really fine feeling half stop.
If you also lower the 9'th string on that same lever, you'll need to adjust the travel on the 9'th string to blend with the half stop. If you're doing something over on the C-6 side, you'll also need to adjust that travel.
I know that this sounds complicated, but it is not near as complicated as you would think.
Once installed, adjusted and tuned, you should have the very best feeling half stop of anyother guitar.
Halfstops, at best, are a compromise and are not perfect, but this one should get you by and be pretty much free of constant adjustment.
BB
I forgot to mention that you should remove those two adjustment screws, clean them and put a drop of blue loc-tite on them, or as some repairmen do, install a spring to keep them from turning so easily.
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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
[This message was edited by Bobby Bowman on 17 March 2001 at 12:18 PM.]
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Lee Baucum
Member From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier
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posted 18 March 2001 07:16 AM
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I believe there were some good pictures in either Winnie Winston's old book or in one of Tom Bradshaw's old magazines. I don't remember which. Lee, from South Texas[This message was edited by Lee Baucum on 18 March 2001 at 07:18 AM.] |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 March 2001 06:45 AM
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Thanks Bobby I think I get the idea. Hopefully I can give it a try later this afternoon. I'll let you know how it turns out. The way it's set up now, the half stop is on the 7th string raise (if that makes sense)Thanks again
David
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KENNY FORBESS
Member From: peckerwood point, w. tn.
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posted 19 March 2001 07:06 AM
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David if that's the Rosewood 72, #1558,
You're right about the 2nd lower being half-stopped(detented)buy the 7th, F# string.
But i had it also raising a half-tone to E.It was also detented by the 3rd string C to B
on the C6th neck, both the E9th 7th and the C6th 3rd string was actuated at the same time with the same travel so to get a good solid feel of the 2nd strind half-stop lower. I had lots of tunable halfs on that guitar at one time,don't know if it had them on it by the time you got it tho, I had a split on the 6th string at one time. ------------------
kenny
66 Emmons 8&7
Derby D-10 8&7 [This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 19 March 2001 at 07:10 AM.] [This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 19 March 2001 at 07:25 AM.]
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 March 2001 07:39 AM
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That's the one Kenny. The half stop that you put on it works really well. I thought it would be neat to try the end plate tunable half stop though. I can see where the 2nd string use to be raised on this guitar, the bell crank is still there, but the rod isn't. No big deal since I never got use to that change on any of my other guitars. |
KENNY FORBESS
Member From: peckerwood point, w. tn.
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posted 19 March 2001 08:07 AM
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David,there's some really neat unisons on the 2nd raise, pedals up or down position.Hope you enjoy that guitar half as much as I did, she sings. |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 March 2001 09:23 AM
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Kenny, I almost hate to admit it, but my Sho-Bud has hardly been out of the case since I got the Emmons. You're right, she does sing, and I don't feel like I'm having to fight the guitar once I get past the 12th fret. I think I've finally found a keeper! I may end up putting that 2nd string raise on some day.Take Care
David
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 19 March 2001 03:45 PM
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Wow, what a difference. The factory type half stop is much more positive (to me anyway) than the way it was set up before! Thanks for the help Bobby! David |
Chick Donner
Member From: North Ridgeville, OH USA
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posted 06 August 2003 08:25 AM
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Here's an ATTEMPT to post pics . . . this is a half stop where one RAISES the 2nd string as well as lower it a whole tone with a half stop. This is the Charlie Ward Belchfire One half stop. OK . .. I tried, and can't figure it out. I'll Email the pics to the original poster here, and maybe HE can figure out how to post the pictures. |
Craig A Davidson
Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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posted 06 August 2003 09:20 PM
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Folks, i don't know how this topic posted again. I did a search on it and then clicked out. How it got back on here is beyond me.------------------
1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200 |
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