|
Author
|
Topic: Pickin w/out picks?
|
Matt Steindl
Member From: New Orleans, LA, USA
|
posted 22 March 2002 05:26 PM
profile
I expect to get flamed on this one, but I gotta know if any of you guys out there play w/out picks?I started my venture into the wonderfull world of stringed instruments(piano excepted) by taking classical guitar lessons as a child. I had the whole thumb, index, middle, ring finger thing drilled into my head(and hands) and I figured it out pretty quickly. This has always been an asset for me, as I quickly adapted to steel string acousic, then electric, then banjo(w/out picks). I recently got my 1st PSG, and now I am supposed to put little metal things on my fingers to play? What an alien concept!! I play w/ all 4 fingers w/ no picks, and I am pretty satisfied w/ my tone and right hand technique. As I posted in early Jan. I am trying to stay away from formal lessons and if I delelop bad habits, so be it, they will be part of my style(I got flamed for that one too!). I dont aspire to sound like any of the Nashville greats, so is it a sin for me to not use picks? Are there any other pickless heretics out there? Flame away my good freinds!!!!!!!! ------------------
Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
|
posted 22 March 2002 05:40 PM
profile
Actually Matt, in my experience it's pretty common for beginners to want to play steel without the metal picks, as picks feel totally awkward and cumbersome when you're not accustomed to them. However, once used to them, you can play much more precisely with the picks. I think it's kinda like wearing shoes, if you never wore them they'd feel awful but once you're used to them... anyway you'd be better to get used to the picks, but it is your choice. |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
|
posted 22 March 2002 05:42 PM
profile
P.S. I also play with just my fingers on acoustic 6-string, I still use the picks on steel. |
Michael Dene
Member From: Gippsland,Vic, Australia
|
posted 22 March 2002 06:58 PM
profile
Matt,
ok....Ill give 'em another target!!!
I've been picking nylon and steel guitar as well as banjo for over 50 years,
and apart from a 3 year period in the early 60's when I fell for the fingerpick propaganda and used picks (primarily 'cause I was playing bluegrass banjo),I have otherwise played without them, including continuing the banjo. I am lucky, I guess, to have strong fingernails which give me a good clean attack on the strings.
For that 3 year period I was using picks on some instruments and not on others, and had no trouble adjusting from one to the other. However I prefer to play without 'em.
Now I'm only a new hand at this PSG game (and what fun I'm having!), but I've elected to go without picks and so far I haven't found any problems with the right hand. Lotsa problems and learning to be done with bars, pedals, levers and concepts that are all new to me, but the right hand, with 50+ years of classical / flamenco / ragtime / blues / etc, is coping just fine!!
Mind you I'm not saying it's better. I'm just saying it works for me. Like my daddy said...if it feels good..do it. Although he wasn't talking about music.
now I'll duck for cover..
Michael
|
Buck Dilly
Member From: Branchville, NJ, USA
|
posted 22 March 2002 09:49 PM
profile
I've used fingers in the studio. The tone is truly wonderful. But I rely on picks for volumn and accuracy. ------------------
Steels and Guitars. Emmons PP, Nationals, Dan-O's, ES 340, Tube Amps only! "Blue Sparks From Hell" and "Kings in Disguise".
|
Peter
Member From: Cape Town, South Africa
|
posted 22 March 2002 10:03 PM
profile
It all depends on what you want to hear. I suggest trying to play a certain phrase with your fingers only, then the same with a flatpick, just to judge the effect. |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
posted 22 March 2002 11:24 PM
profile
i played on my steel like i do on guitbox, no picks.
But as i moved onward i found that a thumb pick is vital.
i'm still tryin' to get used to them finger picks tho'...
i tend to agree w: Jim P. i found picks awkward at first.
Well thanx to dis'Fo'rum i know that i can barefoot it or put on my suede shoes.
Steel my choice...  [This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 22 March 2002 at 11:26 PM.]
|
Bob Hayes
Member From: Church Hill,Tenn,USA
|
posted 23 March 2002 06:06 AM
profile
Different Strokes, for different folks....or whatever works. There is now law that requires steel pickers to use picks. Maybe the tone ,or attack, or whatever maybe better for one than the other..Who's to judge.(I can't believe that I'm saying this as a card carrying conservative). I've seen some 6 or 8 string "Hawien(?)" steel player playing with a regular guitar pick.
Just MHO!!
Grouchyvet |
Michael Holland
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
|
posted 23 March 2002 10:28 AM
profile
Most beginners feel the same way, Matt. I know I did. But fortunately there were those around me to say "You'll get used to them just as you'll get used to the pedals and levers and the technique". They were right. quote:
I dont aspire to sound like any of the Nashville greats....
Have you considered the bassoon? |
Matt Steindl
Member From: New Orleans, LA, USA
|
posted 23 March 2002 03:01 PM
profile
Nah, I am actually a clarinet, trombone, tuba player!!!Nothing wrong w/ the "Nashville Greats", but I would rather defy convention if possible!! ------------------
Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
|
posted 24 March 2002 12:50 AM
profile
If the picks are put on right; you are in fact still picking with your finger tips; but just happens to be a metal piece between your finger and string.
Many times players don't feel comfortable with metal picks on, simply because they are putting them on their fingers in a way to try and pick with the metal extensions and not with their fingertips. I'm a believer in the extensions of the metal finger picks are that length and curved slightly; because it is to mimic the very end part of your finger tip. So if they are on correctly....you are still playing with your finger tip; but now there is a piece of metal there for volume and texture that gives the pedal steel it's similarity to the original sound and reason that drew you to the instrument in the first place.
Sure one can be different from our predicessors that made the instrument and gave it it's history in sound.....but I wouldn't do it as I feel I would not be carrying along the tremendous tradition that my mentors and folks I idleize put down before me.
Ricky |
Jerry Hayes
Member From: Virginia Beach, Va.
|
posted 24 March 2002 07:12 AM
profile
Hey Matt,
Use whatever you like! You're the person you've got to please. There have been some steel players who've played without picks and got along just fine. Have you ever heard of one of the older players named Dick Stubbs? Dick played pickless and had a good career. There's a guy who plays in Steel Gathering in England who doesn't use fingerpicks and does quite well I've heard. A few weeks ago on the Grand Ol Opry there was a Texas band who's steelman played pickless, and last but not least in the Eagles one of the guitar players (Don Felder) played some pedal steel parts and used no picks. With all that said, I personally use them as I started out on Banjo, dobro, and some bluegrass instruments using thumb and fingerpicks and then went into electric guitar which I had a very enjoyable career in the LA area for 23 year playing with picks. I sometimes liked the tone of bare fingers better but I thought a person could play faster with the fingerpicks until I heard Brent Mason and Mark Knopfler. I sometimes take them off on steel when I attempt to play a Travis style fingerpicking thing as it's easier to block the lead notes like that.------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning. |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
|
posted 24 March 2002 07:21 AM
profile
As usual Ricky was right on about the picks. It may be easier for some to play without picks butI haven't heard anyone play without picks that I thought had really good tone. Playing without picks is fine for an acoustic insrument like the flat-top or nylon string guitar but I think it changes dramatically when you're talking about the steel guitar pedals or no pedals. I know a guy that's a great thumb style electic 6 string player. He uses those glue on plastic fingernails. There's something very thin and airy sounding about his tone to me. I think the plastic picks gives it a plastic tone. Everything about the steel guitars tone is involved with metal..the changer, keys, roller nut, fingers, (BCT in some cases) and the strings. To me using anything but metal picks would take away from the tone. |
Ron Shepard
Member From: Easthampton, MA, USA
|
posted 24 March 2002 07:39 AM
profile
I have often experimented playing without picks, I just can't get used to it. While we are on the subject of picks, has anyone ever
used plastic picks on their fingers? We use them on our thumbs, so I wonder how they would be on the fingers. |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
|
posted 24 March 2002 05:49 PM
profile
Matt - Do whatever you want to do man! Some guys use an open right hand, some make a fist. Not everone "bars" alike. There are a few ways of doing things, and as someone once said, "The best way of doing something is the way that you can get the best job done". You will notice that I did not say "the easiest way" of doing something, and I did say getting the BEST job done. You have only to satisfiy yourself. Jimmie |
Ron Randall
Member From: Dallas, Texas, USA
|
posted 24 March 2002 07:23 PM
profile
Plastic on the finger picks?
Listen to Bob Brozman play slide blues, Hawaiian, bluegrass, old guitar jazz.As I understand his technique, the plastic finger picks are for volume on the acoustic Nationals. Elderly Instruments sells them. ------------------
Fender Stringmaster T-8
PV N400
Dobro squareneck
Dobro roundneck
Lots of Taylors
|
Matt Steindl
Member From: New Orleans, LA, USA
|
posted 25 March 2002 08:46 AM
profile
Thanks guys! Here is the compromise between my stuborn nature and many of your pleadings to not defy convention/PSG histrory. I am going to try using a thumb pick, and if I can do it w/out F-ing up my technique, I will consider putting them on my other fingers.Thanks again for the advice!! We are so lucky to have this forum!!!!!! ------------------
Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul |
Michael Brebes
Member From: Northridge CA
|
posted 25 March 2002 08:47 AM
profile
One thing that makes a difference is whether you are using "classical guitar" nails or just fingers. I also come from a classical guitar background and play most of the time without picks. If you are using nails, then I would say that your tone would be similar to using plastic picks. The metal finger picks give a bit more bite. I have found that the only fingerpicks I can really get used to are the ones made by ProPik that have the fingerpad cutout in them. It leaves the pad of your finger open but has the metal that rests right under your nail. They are definitely the most comfortable and the closest to a "classical guitar" feel. I also use a Herco thumbpick, which is shaped like a regular guitar pick with a wrap over the top for your thumb. Very similar feel to a regular guitar pick. To me, most thumbpicks are too stiff and have to be cut down because they extend down too far. I would say that pedal steel players, in general, are not aware of the speed and precision available with properly trimmed and shaped "classical guitar" nails. The one major drawback with them is that if you break a nail, your playing is out the windown until it grows back. |
Heiko Aehle
Member From: Bretleben GERMANY
|
posted 25 March 2002 09:47 AM
profile
In Germany Frank Baum is playing his steel since many years without picks. He got for some weeks the award "Best instrumental country musician" for Germany from the ICMGA.
So you can see, you have a bright way to go.
;-) |
BobG
Member From: Holmdel, NJ
|
posted 25 March 2002 10:44 AM
profile
I've always played without picks. I simply can't seem to get used to them. I can't remember the reason why I began to learn that way but I believe it's because I'm lefty and couldn't find a lefthanded thumb pick.
My advise based on my own experience is for you to learn how to use picks. The two main reasons are 1) Sustain..(much more with picks) 2) If you break a nail your "screwed". If your forced to pick with the meat of your fingers because the nail is too short I promise you will be "drawing blood" by the fourth set and believe me it hurts like hell.
Do yourself a favor and take Michael and Rickys' advise. I wish I had it when I was starting out.
! [This message was edited by BobG on 25 March 2002 at 10:59 AM.] |
Mike Shefrin
Member From: New York
|
posted 07 July 2006 11:57 PM
profile
I use picks and also play without them. Both ways are good and different. No different than being able to play a six string guitar using different right hand techniques like in classical or flamenco guitar where you use the nails and fingertips or say when you play a guitar using a flat pick or fingerpicks. Wes Montgomery played using only his thumb and played and sounded great. There are no rules as far as I'm concerned as long as you are able to produce good sounding music. |
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 03:33 AM
profile
Alaska pics. |
A. J. Schobert
Member From: Cincinnati OHIO WHO DEY???
|
posted 08 July 2006 04:46 AM
profile
Matt normally I would tell one to where the picks, and seek a teacher out, they can help you to show you how to bend the picks in helping you play. Then again you said you don't care if you develop bad habbits? I personnaly really try to mind my playing as I slowly get better, but if you don't care then I would say your on the right track. |
Tracy Sheehan
Member From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 05:06 AM
profile
I use picks if the rhythm section is tight.If not i only use a thumb pick.But i don't even use a thumb pick when i am playing fiddle. 
|
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 05:59 AM
profile
" dont aspire to sound like any of the Nashville greats....
Have you considered the bassoon?"
Comments like that and the ones that say "you can't have good tone" etc etc are from folks living in a box, where the instrument is meant for one thing and one style only. You expected flames and go them - but if people actually took time to read your post and thought about the fact that you're not trying to sound like another clone they wouldn't make such narrow-minded comments. You've clearly stated you want to do something different - so those things should be ignored as irrelevant and off topic. Do what YOU want to do. If you feel comfortable without picks, like the tone, and can play what YOU want to play don't let anyone tell you differently. Like you said, you don't want to sound like the Nashville greats and would rather blaze your own trail. So do it your way - and I say good for you!!!. FWIW I normally use picks, from years of dobro - but I also play without quite often, especially on slower things. I like the softer attack and totally different, almost "compressed" tone. And it keeps the instrument from sounding like a zillion other guys playing country steel with little variation in attack or sound.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 08 July 2006 at 06:02 AM.] |
Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
Member From: Southaven, MS, USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 07:58 AM
profile
Matt: I play with 4 bare fingers + a thumbpick---over 35 years. Try my album sample at www.steelguitarbyhughjeffreys.com ---j--- |
Winston Street
Member From: Laurel, Mississippi, USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 08:52 AM
profile
Matt,
it's all in whats right for you. I can play with or without finger picks but I prefer no picks. Bobbe Seymour plays a lot without finger picks and I can't tell much difference in his tone if at all. It sure doesn't limit his playing ability. I know I can tell very little difference in my tone. I use super glue on the ends of my finger nails to stop the splingering and breaking. If I remember a article by Buddy Emmons correctly, he played without finger picks also but started using them because of breaking a fingernail before a show or session.
Also you have four fingers that you can create big, fat chords with. I have a friend that plays with four finger picks. I just could never do that. He uses plastic finger picks and sharpens them to the width of a matchstick. Has great tone.. There are some methods or configurations that seem better than others but no one method is right for everyone.
Happy pickin'
Winston |
Mike Shefrin
Member From: New York
|
posted 08 July 2006 08:57 AM
profile
I see Fred Truitt brought up the topic of playing without fingerpicks sometime ago way down at the bottom of the all topics page for pedal steel. Interesting reading all the comments from other players on this subject.[This message was edited by Mike Shefrin on 10 July 2006 at 02:29 PM.] |
Steve Richter
Member From: Menasha, WI USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 05:53 PM
profile
I've been experimenting playing steel like I play guitar .. w/guitar pick and 3 bare fingers. It's a little awkward at the moment because I'm so used to the metal finger picks, but it's getting kind of interesting. My main motive is to be able to switch from guitar to steel on the fly. I don't think I'll completely give up the picks but it's a cool variation. |
Rick Jolley
Member From: Heartland, USA
|
posted 08 July 2006 09:02 PM
profile
Well, I'm just a beginner on PSG (2 years) but I've been working this pick problem for about 50 years, so I'll share. When I started playing guitar, I wanted to play like Chet, so I tried to use a thumb pick. I used finger picks for a while. I also wanted to play like Barney Kessel. Eventually, after about 15 years, I decided that it was respectable to play that style with a flat pick and my fingers. (a la Albert Lee, Ray Flacke, etc.) And a video from Brent Mason informed me that he puts fake fingernails on a couple or three fingers!! (I do that -- it works GREAT!!) But PSG? You play classical guitar with your fingers. You play PSG with a thumb pick and two, maybe three, steel picks. That's kinda the way most people do it. You don't hafta -- but, lots of people have tried lots of ways, and that's the way most people do it. So, in spite of the pain -- and there was LOTS of pain -- I kept at the finger pics. Advice: "If it hurts, bend them!!" (good advice) "Leave them on for hours, while you do something else" (good advice) "Just keep working at it." Well I did. Some things do help. Persistence. "New Skin" (a paint on product.) Hair spray -- to hold them on!! Finally, this year, they feel OK. Natural. And now, I'm about to seriously start learning to play the dobro. And of course, that takes finger pics too!! How handy that I don't have to struggle with finger picks any more!! Anyway -- you can do whatever you want. Ricky Nelson says
"You can't please every one...
You got to please yourself!" But... an awful lot of people think that you play PSG... and Dobro... using finger picks. Maybe you're swimming up stream? Rickey Zahn |
David Wren
Member From: Placerville, California, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 08:45 AM
profile
Been using all plastic picks (thumb + 3 fingers) for the last 40 years, and I wouldn't think of changin' back to metal. There's just a "softness" in the attack that I find preferable. To me, it was logic.... why use a plastic thumb pick, and metal fingers? There's also a little "bounce" you get when picking the strings, that I don't feel with metal picks.You will find my approach to be vastly in the minority.... so experiment, and settle on what YOU like. ------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com |
Bobby Bowman
Member From: Cypress, Texas, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 12:03 PM
profile
Buddy Emmons plays a lot without picks, especially finger picks. I do notice that he may use his finger nail, or a portion of it, from time to time.
I'm flippin' off my finger picks more and more these days (well,,,,nights, haha)
I did a tune on my CD, Pure and Simple, without any picks at all. It was a tune called "Honey B".
I'm of those who say, 'do what you like'. There are no set rules.
I do suggest however, that you try to get somewhat accustomed to picks if for no other reason than for your own benefit and varied tecnique.
BB------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com |
Ron Sodos
Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 01:31 PM
profile
Of course do what you want to do. Personally I don't think you can get the tone without picks. Also, my picks fit so well I hardly know they are on until break time when I take them off. |
BobG
Member From: Holmdel, NJ
|
posted 11 July 2006 02:53 PM
profile
If you plan on playing out regularly I strongly suggest learning how to use picks. I've been playing without picks for years and recently decided to learn how to play with them. The bottom line is fingernails are simply to fragile. If you break a nail you have no choice but to cut the nail back and that means your playing with the meat of the finger until the nail grows back.
I cant tell you how many times I broke a nail the day of a gig. It definately affected my playing and as a bonus my fingers were painfully raw by the third set..
Do yourself a favor.. avoid the hassle and learn how to use picks right from the start. This instrument is hard enough without dealing unnecessary distractons. ------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll, POD XT |
Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
Member From: Southaven, MS, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 03:10 PM
profile
For the past 2 years, I've been working on a new technique which will be a revolution; in my opinion it's better than my 5-finger technique.-----j----- |
Mike Wheeler
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 03:30 PM
profile
Really?!?! Grow another finger, Doc?? lol(just kiddin')[This message was edited by Mike Wheeler on 11 July 2006 at 03:31 PM.] |
Randy Gilliam
Member From: San Antonio, Texas, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 06:00 PM
profile
When I first started everyone probably wished I did not use picks either. Wait till you Learn Too Play a little Better then You will be Ready for the Picks. It Is like your first Bike with training Wheels.Good luck you dont seem too picky too me. Randy. |
John Walden
Member From: Camarillo, California, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 07:12 PM
profile
Hello Matt, I've only been playing about four years, and I couldn't get used to the metal fingerpicks. But because most do, I kept trying. I bought some Pro-Picks. They have a double band, butterfly style. And they are very comfortable. I still play alot without fingerpicks. Just a thumb pick and acrilic nails. I go to the beauty shop and have one hand of nails done. It's kind of wierd, but there are alot of good looking women there, and the gal that does my nails does a real good job of doing what I want. Then I shape them, and I'm good to go. They have to be short enough to allow for the metal picks. It feels more natural to me to use my nails. Good luck ! J. W. |
Michael Holland
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
|
posted 11 July 2006 08:09 PM
profile
Ah, it's great looking back, isn't it? That post is over four years old, Jim. In that time I've realized that I'm the only player that still uses fingerpicks. I am thinking of taking up the bassoon myself, but I'll still use fingerpicks on it.  |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
|
posted 12 July 2006 04:39 AM
profile
My preference would be for picks.
1. Greater dynamic range (The main reason)
2. Pick blocking
3.Most of the legends use picks
I think that the trend towards no picks is motivated by impatience, more so than a search for that elusive "Tone".
Baz |
The Steel Guitar Forum
