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Author
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Topic: Where do you lower the E's???
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Jeff Coffell
Member From: Killeen Texas
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posted 14 April 2002 12:28 AM
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I'm finding that many people do this in a different place than me. I thought mine was the original Emmons set up but evidentaly I'm wrong. I lower E'S RKL.Thanks Jeff |
Jody Sanders
Member From: Magnolia,Texas
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posted 14 April 2002 12:36 AM
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Lower E's with LKR. Raise E's with LKL. Jody. |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 14 April 2002 01:20 AM
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I lowered my "E"'s on LKR for years..then changed to RKL......so don't make a difference where it is....just as long as I know where it is. You can learn to make any adjustment as long as you give it time and make it work for what you want to do and how you want to play.
Ricky |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 14 April 2002 02:06 AM
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i've got E to Eb on RKL + E to F on RKR.
ma'Bud was set up like that when i got it.
i 'm used to it and it frees my left leg for the foot pedals.
i do have F# to G# on LKL tho'.
Steel dig pushin' em around....  |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 14 April 2002 03:54 AM
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Raise LKL, Lower RKL, I kinda like the physical feel of the RKL to LKL change from the Eb to the F. Works for me.
tp |
Buddy Emmons
Member From: Hermitage, TN USA
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posted 14 April 2002 06:38 AM
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Knee levers that cancel each other out should be on the same knee and it doesn't matter which knee. I raise and lower the third string a half tone with the RKR and RKL and the same for the fourth string with the left knee on the C6th tuning. It's not the law but a common sense approach that allows the maximum combinations with your knee levers. |
Reggie Duncan
Member From: Mississippi
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posted 14 April 2002 06:47 AM
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Playing the Day setup, I lower my E's with LKL and raise them with LKR. |
Darvin Willhoite
Member From: Leander, Tx. USA
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posted 14 April 2002 07:05 AM
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I lower my E's with my RKR, thats the way it was on my first guitar, so I stuck with it. I raise the E's with my LKR because that position was available when I added that change. I played for 10 or 15 years without raising the E's to F. I wish I'd had that change when I started, it opened up a whole new set of possibilities.------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording
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C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 14 April 2002 07:39 AM
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In a survey I took on this forum 2 years ago, most players lower the E's on LKR. And raise them on LKL. Also, in a telephone survey I took (calling most of the manufacturers), this is the standard setup that is shipped on all new PSG's. In addition, this is the setup that you will find that most manufacturers use on their "show" guitars at the steel shows.While I do agree with those that feel having the raise and lower on separate knees, is better for transition from one to the other, I feel it is still better to maximize the combinations as BE said. Here is an example: Lowering of the 6th string from G# to F# (and/or splitting with the B pedal) can be used with all of the following combinations: 1. A pedal 2. A pedal and split with B pedal. 3. B pedal split. 4. Raising the E's with A and B pedal split (9th chord). 5. Lowering the E's with A and B pedal split (7th chord). 6. B pedal split and lowering the E's (augmented chord). 7. lowering the B's (7th chord---a different inversion than above). 8. Lowering the B's with A pedal split. 9. B pedal split and C pedal. (a long since needed 13th chord on strings 4, 5 and 6). Because of these very useful combinations, it is necessary that the raising and lowering of the E's be on the same knee. Further, because of knee movement direction, I feel it is better to have the raise and lower (of the E's), on the left knee. Reason: some of the above cannot be done easily (or at all), IF it is done on the right knee. But whatever floats..........  God bless you all, carl |
Frank Venters
Member From: Peru,In,USA
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posted 14 April 2002 08:54 AM
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When I got my 71 Emmons, it only had two knee levers, RKR lowered the E's, and LKR lowered the second string Eb to D. Then with help I had the E to F pull on RKL, changed the 2nd string to D and lower it to C# with the LKR.My 3rd pedal only has F# pull.I'm happy with it, don't plan on any more changes and get everything I need with what I have."Taatu Barada Nikto, Gort." |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 14 April 2002 09:46 AM
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Mine is on RKL. I disagree with Buddy on this one, because I use that F to Eb change a lot (my F lever is on LKL). I always found it awkward when both changes were on the left knee.
I hate disagreeing with the Big E, though. ------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
Graham
Member From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
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posted 14 April 2002 10:46 AM
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On my '70 left handed Fulawka, lower was on LKR and raise on RKL. When I had my new Fulawka built, I had both changes put on my right knee. Also changed my '70 over to the same configuration. This change seemed to make more sense to me as my foot was already over both the A & B pedals, which these levers are used in conjunction with, a lot of the time.------------------
Rebel™
ICQ 614585
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
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Danny Bates
Member From: Fresno,CA. USA
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posted 14 April 2002 11:17 AM
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Lower E's with RKR. Raise E's with RKL.Maybe I'm bass ackwards? |
Ron Hiler
Member From: Sandford Mi USA
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posted 14 April 2002 11:48 AM
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Lower RKR Raise LKL, course, if I knew the guitar as good as BE, I probably wouldn't need either one |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 14 April 2002 11:50 AM
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I'm with you Danny. That was the stock setup for MSA's so I didn't change it when I got one back in the 70's. In the past I've thought about changing them to the left knee to be "like Buddy" but since I have staggered left knee levers, I have more combinational possibilities of raising or lowering the E's with the any of the left levers. The only downside I can think of is that those levers work a little stiffer as they have C6 changes as well. ------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@charter.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-13 8&8=- |
Steven Welborn
Member From: Ojai,CA USA
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posted 14 April 2002 05:02 PM
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LKLraise LKRlower. I raise and lower the C's on the back neck the same way. |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 14 April 2002 07:06 PM
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Geeze, I'm in opposition with the BIG E !!
Well my first go around was raise and lower on the left knee, then when I bought an MSA last year after gads of years away, it had the lower on the right knee, I just played it like that and thats where I'm at today with my Carter. Sorry Buddy, maybe I'll go back 'cause now I'm feelin' sad..But I do like the physical feel of the 4 note change from Eb, to F# ( up one fret in combo with the Bb Lever for the triad)with the E's on opposite knee's. By the way, I got that 4 note move from your Rose Colored Glasses !
tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 April 2002 at 04:29 AM.] |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 14 April 2002 07:08 PM
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I never did understand splitting up the raise and lowering of the E's from one leg to the other. I raise and lower the 3rd for the C6 on the right leg and raise and lower the 4th for C6 on the left leg. Seems to be more combinations this way. |
Johnny Cox
Member From: The great state of Texas
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posted 14 April 2002 08:54 PM
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Well here is my two cents worth. R-R lowers E's, L-R raises. There are some very cool things to do by going from the lower to the raise. If they are on the same leg this cannot be done in a fluid motion.
(Sorry Buddy)------------------
Johnny Cox
Zumsteel Tripleneck
E13th/E9th/Bb6th
(this week)
[This message was edited by Johnny Cox on 14 April 2002 at 08:56 PM.] [This message was edited by Johnny Cox on 14 April 2002 at 08:59 PM.]
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KENNY KRUPNICK
Member From: Grove City,Ohio
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posted 14 April 2002 09:53 PM
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Lower "E",s on LKR. Raise on LKL.This is on my Zum,and Sierra. My MSA, lower the "E"s on RKL. |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 14 April 2002 10:13 PM
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The only reason that I can see offhand for putting them on separate legs. Is you are using them to get a split E going up or Down, so you have to have the Eb and the F engaged to get the smooth 3 note change.Say hit the Eb , hold it, hit the F, then let go of the Eb. But I wouldn't set them on separate legs just for that reason when I can get more combinations as Buddy has said.
For me I feel it is perfectly natural to go LL E to F and LR E to Eb.
But then again on a S12 Universal E9/B6 you almost have to put the E to Eb on the RLK....al [This message was edited by Al Marcus on 14 April 2002 at 10:14 PM.] |
Hap Young
Member From: Yuma, AZ, USA
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posted 14 April 2002 10:22 PM
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I raise my E's on my RKL and lower them on my RKR. |
Rusty Hurse
Member From: Hendesonville, Tn
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posted 15 April 2002 05:14 AM
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Now you boys better settle down here like b0b and Tony and Dumplin .You all know it is not nice to disagree with GRANDDADDY! |
Jerry Hayes
Member From: Virginia Beach, Va.
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posted 15 April 2002 05:42 AM
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I got my first "Modern" pedal steel (Sho-Bud) in 1976 after playing Fender cable guitars. The 'bud had the E's lowered on the RKL lever and raised them on LKL. I think this was the standard setup by ShoBud at the time. I played it a couple of weeks and then changed the E lowers to the LKR. A short time later I went to a Universal and changed the E lowers to RKR and the raises to RKL which I thought was more usable for that set up. I don't play the Universal anymore but I still like 'em in those positions and won't change again ever! I agree with Buddy on this one......------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning. |
Buddy Emmons
Member From: Hermitage, TN USA
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posted 15 April 2002 06:08 AM
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Calm down Rusty. According to Carl, the numbers are on our side. (Sorry Johnny) |
Bob Farlow
Member From: Marietta,GA,
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posted 15 April 2002 07:34 AM
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Mine are: RKL raise 4 & 8, RKR lower 4 & 8.
It works for me. |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 15 April 2002 10:05 AM
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Well it almost looks like I can´t make up my mind between two options. On my ShoBud I´ve got the E lower on RKL and the raise on LKL, which I think is the "classic" ShoBud setup, and I like it fine. On my Dekley, after much experimenting, I put the lower on RKR and raise on RKL, like Jim Smith and Jerry Hayes (and Buddy Cage, too). I like that one as well because it leaves my left leg completely free for the pedals. I´d like to know if anybody has ever put it on a ShoBud.
The position I do NOT like for the lower is LKR, even if many disagree. I had it on my first Emmons and it felt just awkward to use in combination with the pedals - TO ME. If it works for others, THAT´S FINE.
Regards, Joe H. |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 15 April 2002 11:38 AM
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Yipes Rusty !! Dissagree with the Granddaddy !! Did I do that ??Actually splitting the "E" knee's is like a Sienfield'ism , it's exactly the same, just different ! If Buddy ever comes to my house to inspect my guitar I'm gonna put the E's back on one knee and tell him I was just kidding ! What a life..
TP |
Jeff Coffell
Member From: Killeen Texas
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posted 15 April 2002 12:01 PM
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Well you never know until you ask. I knew there were many ways possable but didn't realize there were so many different posistions being used. I guess it's all in what you get used to.Jeff Thanks to all. |
Buddy Emmons
Member From: Hermitage, TN USA
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posted 15 April 2002 12:08 PM
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LOL You'll be richly blessed for that, Tony.  |
Robert Todd
Member From: Atlanta, Georgia USA
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posted 15 April 2002 02:44 PM
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I raise on lkl lower on rkr. When I had the raise and the lower on the same knee, I couldn't get a smooth whole tone drop I'd always hear the stop at the half tone. I use this in the AF position just as I would use pedal A in the AB position amoung other ways as well.[This message was edited by Robert Todd on 18 April 2002 at 12:26 PM.] |
Jeff Coffell
Member From: Killeen Texas
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posted 17 April 2002 09:21 PM
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I got my new Zum yeterday and it was set for lowering on LKR. TRIED IT FOR A WHILE, PROBABLY DIDN'T GIVE IT ENOUGH TIME. I changed it today back to RKL. Just didn't seem as smooth the other way. I had to try it though. Thanks guys for all your input. Jeff |
rhcarden
Member From: Lampe,Mo / USA
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posted 23 April 2002 10:38 PM
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I lower LKL, raise to F's LV1, and raise to F# RKR (4th only). Since I have a p/p, the lowers do not cancel the raises making it possible to press both the LKL and LV1 and still have F's. release the LV1 and drop from F's to D#'s without stoping at the E's. I have the 6th string lower G# to F# on P1 and use it a lot with LKL. Works for me. I'm sure Buddy and Johnny will change their set ups tonight! ------------------
Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7
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Mike Perlowin
Member From: Los Angeles CA
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posted 26 April 2002 09:05 AM
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Like everything else, there's a trade off. Haivng the E raises and lowers on the same knee does maximise your possibilities as Buddy said. Having them on different knees makes the transition between the raise and lower smoother. It's a question of what's more important to you.I have my raise in my LKL and my lower on my LKR, and I've found that I can go from one to the other pretty smoothly if I raise my leg and hit the levers as close to the undercarraige and vertical as possible. But realistically, I rarely do that. basically what it does is recreate A pedal licks, so when I want to play those licks I move the bar and change postions. |
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