Discontinuing this guitar has to rank as Fender's biggest goof, IMHO.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 17 April 2002 at 05:17 PM.]

here's a link to Gene's Site article page about it... with no indication how many... http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/profile2.html

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 17 April 2002 at 11:02 AM.]

I played a lot of standards on the C6 at the store and it sounded great to me. The people around me thought so too.

It had a much improved changer than my Original Gibson Electra-Harp of which about 7 were made before WWII, but similar in that Screw on a tuning bar made the chords.

I almost bought one but I had a Push Pull Emmons at the time and liked it pretty well.

I didn't think they were going to just drop it like they did. Dumb Move....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 17 April 2002 at 03:07 PM.]

What makes you say that.

I received (here we go again) the first ever
salesman sample, WHY you ask??? because I was
the only salesman who played steel guitar.

Why do I have to repeat this?? Its killing me
and you all say I tell long stories.....Its
because you ask "long questions" .

The PS 210 was sent to me, as a sample for my
evaluation. My comments to the "suits" was of
a positive YES,,,,ITS GREAT.....I called Gene
at the office (Fullerton Calif) and told him
how much I liked his guitar,,,I have copies
of my letter to the "suits" with a complete
evaluation of the PS 210.

They asked each salesman on the sales force..
How many do you think you can sell??
How many dealers will stock this guitar??
Do you feel more emphasis should be directed
towards the Fender Rhodes Piano keyboard line?? CBS was "big daddy" back then.

No one but me voted YES for the PS 210. CBS
is to blame. I was really bugged by that stupid decision.

BUT,,,,,,,they proved that the RHODES (took
off the (Fender part of the name) "long story" and the Rhodes Pianos sold like Ice Cream on a "hot summers" day.

I would advise each of you to discontinue watching a CBS TV channel or an affiliate of
CBS....they did me wrong,,,they did YOU wrong
"how dare they to ignore my advice".

Gene is a fine guy,,,ask him about the only
one who supported his effort,,,,tell him
Broadway Jody sent ya. Is this too long
or do you want more.????

Operators are standing by,,,,your call is important to us,,,,your call may be monitored
for quality assurance. Thank You.

What do you expect from a bunch of guys who
wear those (3) button suits and wing tip shoes at CBS,,,Brains??? NO they didnt have any. It was the clothes that mattered.

They even had their hair cut every two weeks.
They were really weird.

I was the only normal one...ask Gene..

This is a "True Story" Only the names have been changed to protect the "GUILTY".

Walter Cronkite agreed with me. And thats the
way it was. Goodnite. edited as Walter just called me to do his TV show "60" Minutes" they have to lenghten the show to "180" minutes because I will be on the show.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 18 April 2002 at 04:14 PM.]

On the Steel Guitarists of Hampton Roads website www.evertize.com/sutphin I wrote a little piece about the PS 210 and also have a picture of the one which is in Billy Cooper's store........Later, Jerry

------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

And that was not including his own..
Campbells Soup.. He didnt know a steel guitar from a "trombone". But a nice man overall...He was a product of the Piano business where they didnt use knee levers.

How are you doing???do you miss CBS??? dont have to answer that in public... PS When Campbell left CBS..he offered me a position with his Campbell's Soup company.
I accepted and was the "exclusive" rep for the entire East Coast....however,,,I had only one line of his products.

The Bean Soup,,,man it was a real "GAS".

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 18 April 2002 at 04:59 PM.]

I had an Gibson Electra-harp with a similar changer and I used to change a pedal pull or change IN BETWEEN SONGS ON THE BANDSTAND try that wtih any other steel.That's also without turning it upside down!

Gene- I am sure that you had the knowledge and expertise to take the cables off of 4 pedals and hook them to knee levers. Then you would have about what Williams has today 4 or 5 knee levers and 4 or 5 pedals, plenty enough as you have two necks to work with.

I am glad to see you breaking tradition as you did with the PS-210. ,with your own GFI ULTRA. You have a lot of good ideas there.

They could have made the Rhodes Piano, (which was very popular) and the PS-210 both.

To completely drop all pedal guitars, after they had a big part of the market, was silly and dumb to say the least....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 18 April 2002 at 04:33 PM.]

Bob was head engineer at CBS NYC for a number of years until his retirement a few years back.Bob was a competent engineer.

Bob worked with people such as Walter Cronkite on a daily basis as well as many other local and network shows,. I was suprised to see you were also a member of CBS affliate's "Creative Playthings".

I guess we were all one "Happy??" family.

I will tell you a story which more or less supports your comments.

Just after CBS aqquired Fender,,,there was a
number of "new policy's " put into effect.
Rather than addressing the issues at hand regarding products etc sales etc,,they had to
start with something more important to them.

"Dress Code" for all FENDER Salesman.

A Blanket letter was sent to each Fender sales rep (15) nationwide. The letter was as follows.

ATTENTION ALL FENDER CBS SALES REPRENTATIVES.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY.

There will be a dress code put into effect for all members of the CBS sales staff. There
will be NO EXCEPTIONS.

We are requesting that all Fender CBS salesman send their suit size to "no names here" "this guy may be watching" our office and list your suit size,,,,,trousers included
"geez" I had hoped so,,,what no pants???.

The letter went on to say....All Salesman are to be dressed according to CBS dress code.
The regalia,,,or was it "Ragalia"? is to be
Navy Blue 'Single Breasted Coat to fit,what was this?? a coat not to fit?? it follows with,,,you will be expected to wear contrasting "tan" "beige" trousers as well as
a white shirt and "marroon tie".

Please send your sizes to "no mame" and he will order your apparel.

Be sure to include your correct size as far a
jacket size,,,sleeve lenghth etc etc. It is most important as well to submit your trouser
waist size as well as the length you require. "I guess they meant "No short Shorts".

The trousers will be cuffed and shoes are optional as long as they are black in color.
A White Shirt is a MUST repeat....A White Shirt is a MUST.

Failure to comply with the information herein
will or can lead to dismissal of those who do not co-operate and adhere to CBS policy.

All of our sales force dressed neat and appropriate...Luke Morris (god rest his soul) he was the epitome of class,,he always
worn those "southern gentleman clothes" lightweight well fitted clothes,,his white hair complimented his overall appearance.

Ole Luke covered the southern part of the United States,,,Alabama No & So Carolina etc.
He was well respected and well liked by those who knew him.

Another was a good friend and the very first
ever sales rep for Leo Fender years ago. He was from TEXAS. He covered the Southwest and
he too dressed appropriate,,he was well attired in expensive and well fitting western cut suits including "Luchese" boots which you could see your face in,,,,he was well groomed. He stood 6 ft 7 inches tall and had that "western drawl" he looked like
"High Noon" in the flesh weighing in at about 245 lbs and well built. He didnt take any S..t from anyone.

As for myself,,I always wore a good fitting conservative suit and or sports coat and I too dressed accordingly.

Ditto most all of the Fender salesman dressed
well.

I sent my sizes of the coat,,trousers etc etc to this individual who was to have these
CBS issue outfits sent to Chicago to the Namm
Show.

I was careful to make certain the size of what I sent was correct....Jacket size 39 regular....trousers size 32 waist....length 33 inches,,,,shirt 15" neck 33 sleeve length.

This was a "major project" and no doubt a special person was hired to do this important
job. This was the "Big Time".

The feed back from a few of the old guard of Fender salesmen were not complimentary to say the least,,,I never heard the "F" word used as much as I did regarding this new policy.

It outlined NO COWBOY BOOTS will be acceptable.

IMPORTANT ANYONE WHO DOES NOT ADHERE TO THIS
POLICY may submit himself to IMMEDIATE DISMISSAL. THIS IS A MUST.

When I arrived at the Hotel Pick Congress in Chicago,,,my new outfit was waiting for me.
I put the jacket on,,,it was down to my knees
and was a 44 LONG..the trousers were able to be wrapped around my waist 3 times and I would still have room to spare.

The "Crotch" was down below my knees,,,,there
was room enough for a Twin Reverb to fit inside the crotch with room for a P bass.

It was no suprise to me however,,,somehow I was expecting the worst,,I dont know why..Oh yes,,,,the tie did fit. The shirt looked like
a twin sized bed sheet.
I looked like a poor imitation of Soupy Sales
Woody Allen and Pinky Lee all rolled up into one.

I didnt care,,,they asked for it,,,,they got it. I walked into the Convention Center with my new CBS "look"....I walked over to the individual who was in charge of this abortion and said,,,Well....How Do I Look???
His reply was ,,,Sir....thats me,,,I sense a bit of sarcasim in your tone of voice.

I said Oh Yeah??? you should be in my pants.
I said I ordered one pair of pants for one person "ME" I didnt order pants for a "Three Some". My jacket looked like an overcoat,,you could not see my hands as the sleeves covered them....I didnt need gloves.

As I infuriated him,,,he turned red and replied (Sir) thats me,,,do you know what CBS Is? and what it stands for,,,I thought for a moment and said to myself in the presence of 9 Fender salesman who looked almost as bad as I did,,,I replied "yes sir" I know what CBS stands for..................

C....onstant B....ull S......T.

He walked away in digust,,I dont think he liked the way my pants fit....I said to him
Hey Sam....you made the pants too loooooong.

CBS purchased The New York Yankees as Winnie
stated,,,they paid $11 million dollars for The Yankees.....they paid $15.5 Million dollars for Fender,,,I think I was the reason they laid out the extra money...they needed me more than they needed Mickey Mantle.

Often wondered if they told Mickey how to hold his bat and wear his pants.

Let this be a lesson to you...KNOW WHO YOUR TAILOR IS. and to my friend Bob Maickle...do you need a pair of pants for three?? you can fit yourself and John DeMaille VP and Jeff Di Maio in thse pants and play (three part harmony with (3) long scale 24'1/2 necks....
but NO PEDALS PLEASE.....they may cause you a problem. Knee levers are acceptable.

To My Friend Winnie

Winnie Sounds Good Like Steel Guitar Should.

Later....these pants are available for "group
"outings" reserve early.... This offer expires when I do.So order Now...E bay rejected my outfit,,I didnt know how much reserve to place on this oufit.

I will address the Haircut code in my Fender
Book. That will be a "cut above the pants.
PS Gene Fields,,,be happy you worked in manufacturing.
------------------
Copyright(c) 2002 by
Jody Carver "All Rights
Reserved"

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 10 June 2002 at 09:26 PM.]

WINSTON! WHERE'S THAT CAN OPENER I SENT YOU FOR?

Memo: Fill out a requisition for the other half of this suit.

UNREAL....One picture is worth a THOUSAND
WORDS......,,,, Beans anyone.??..."Steelin the Beans"...

No "Saxaphones Allowed" can you find "Monica"
in this picture????. Cabinet Drop not allowed.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 20 April 2002 at 10:27 AM.]

Sorry to say, I think the SUITS made the best decision, when you consider SUITS are only looking after "The Bottom Line".

I suspect a fine Steel like the 210 would have lost money for the company.

Too bad business has to run like this.

We're lucky to have fine Steels made these days by people who care.

Those Fender SUITS are probably long gone from the music business, now with Enron, or K-Mart.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 21 April 2002 at 03:25 PM.]

Joey,,,,retail price of the PS 210 was $1,500.00 for the guitar and $80.00 addt'l for the case. Total retail $1,580.00

There were many options on the 210,,,,example
standard model was 8 pedals 1 knee lever.
You would have to specify L Knee L or R knee
R. The more knee levers you would add would then limit your floor pedals.

There were 15 various combinations of knee lever and pedals available. The least floor pedals were 5 and that would include 4 knee
levers. That was the way the guitar was designed.

Of no importance to your question,,,,each model or combination of floor pedals and or knee levers had a different ordering code of numbers,,,,example a 210 with 8 floor pedals and 1 knee lever was designated as a 14-1425.

This drove me crazy,,I was to order a guitar with 8 pedals and 1 knee lever,,,,It HAD to be a 14-1425,,,and so on up to 14-1439...do you get the picture???

Gotta run,,any more questions?? I will try to address them. PS NO K Mart and Walmart do not have the quality of suits that CBS issued. If you wanted a suit you would have to order it by number,,,example 1 brown suit size 40 regular would be,,129 99 87 00909,,,and thats with out pants

One thing I hated abut those pants,,,,were the zipper,,the crotch was soooooo loooooong
the knot of my tie got caught in the zipper as well as my "adams apple",,,If you had to whizz it was a Loooong way down,,,many times
I almost didnt make it...but there was room for a "can" inside the pants if necessary.

Howard need some 505 Levis or Wrangler Cowboy cut underwear?? let me know,,,I can send you a few pair,,,,just specify the item number of the jeans you would want.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 21 April 2002 at 05:56 PM.]

------------------

and fer chissakes, Howard, put some pants on!

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 21 April 2002 at 05:39 PM.]

CBS at this point made the right decision,,they had their primary interest in the Fender Rhodes product line and all interests as well as commitment finacially was directed at the Rhodes Keyboard line. I myself would have liked to have seen Gene's guitar produced,,,as for his question as to what was the street price??? how could anyone
tell,,,the water had not reached its level,there were only app 15 made,,,how can you put a selling to the customer price? at such a premature time. It was worth the retail price,,,,but you know NYC,,,,,did you ever see anything sell for retail,,,,thats why Howard has no pants,,,he wants them "wholesale" have I got a deal for you..step in here "mister" understand what Im talkin about mister??

BTW as soon as CBS aqquired Fender the name
Fender Rhodes was changed to "Rhodes" and the Fender name was omitted,,,the reason??? its another long story...

You should really wear some pants when you sit behind your Fender PS 210 because you may get seriously injured by one of its inner knee levers.

Hi SGF:

My Fender PS 210 is sitting in my living room as a "table" to put newspapers and magazines on.

I had the guitar up at Sierra Steel Guitar in Portland, Oregon for almost a year (they were going to do some repairs and add three knee levers) but as it turned out, nothing was done to it.

Now I'm pondering whether I should just get rid of it or continue attempting to get things done on it?

The guitar needs the following:

1. A case;

2. The fretboards need to be reglued to the guitar;

3. One of the legs is loose in the body and it needs a helicoil (is this spelled correctly?) installed to reestablish the bond with the threads on the leg;

4. The guitar's only knee lever is broken on it shaft and has to be replaced (the knee lever mechanism is OK however);

5. The place where the strings attach on the keyless tuner suffer from metal fatigue whereby the little tips that act as guides for the string snap off very easily;

6. The metal cover that was attached to the pedal board is off and has to be reattached in some fashion;

7. The legs need to be shorten about 1-1/2 inches because the instrument must have been designed for a very tall person and it's about that much taller than my Fender 1000; and

8. Many of the chrome parts (pedals and pedal rods) are rusted and need to be rechromed.

I was hoping that this instrument would replace my trusty Fender 1000 but I'm not sure now. (If my wife, Kathy, has her way, the instrument will be history.)

I enjoyed reading this post about the Fender PS 210 and I'm glad to see Gene Fields posting to the SGF. Before I bought this instrument I spoke to him on the telephone and his strong suggestion was for me NOT to purchase this instrument and get a GFI pedal steel guitar instead. Maybe that was good advise I should have heeded?

------------------
Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1956),
Fender PS 210 (1971) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 (1960)
Al's Photos at http://www.alsphotographs.com

[This message was edited by Al Gershen on 21 April 2002 at 07:56 PM.]

CBS paid particular attention to the Rhodes
project and had R&D further their re-doing much of the Piano 73 suitcase model as well as the 73 "stage piano" as it was reffered to. The suitcase model had the amp enclosed as the Stage Piano had no amp.

There were numerous problems with the Rhodes
piano and beleive me it drove Harold crazy.
The sound you refer to is well know as a bogus sound,,Harold and I spent hours and hours with dealers and artists to get feedback on the likes and dislikes of the Rhodes piano's.

It was Chick Corea and Herby Hancock and Joe Zawunal that were supporters of the Rhodes piano,,,it was players of that calibre who helped the Rhodes become one of the best sellers in the Fender(CBS) lineup.

You have no idea how hard Harold worked on his project and he never ever stopped trying to improve on what you refer to as a clunky
sound.

He was well aware of its shortcomings. Columbia records produced an LP featuring the
Rhodes Piano back in 65 right after the CBS takeover.

They wanted a "Ken Griffen" type sound,,,but
rather than the Organ that Griffen was known for,,,,they used the Rhodes, Griffen had a steel guitar as part of his instrumentation
for years and years.

Since I was the Fender "do it all guy" I was
called in by Goddard Leiberson to bring the Rhodes into Columbia records and set the session up. I was asked to play steel on the
date which consisted of , Ludwig Flato on Rhodes,Ray Brown on bass and Bucky Pizzerelli on guitar as well as Mottola on lead and rythhm guitar. I played the ironing board. I had to iron out a few things. Howard
you should have been there I would have ironed your underwear out for you. You would have a pair of underwear you could have been proud of not just those "Jockey" boxers you have on.

I wont go into detail as it is a very complicated story and one that I will address
in my book. I have the original tapes of the session made at that time and there were numerous problems with the Piano. The LP was
"canned" by request of Harold Rhodes,,it was from that point on that CBS made a 100% effort to make things as right as they could for the Rhodes Piano.

What went on that night at Columbia recording studio is an important part of my
book,,and a story that many will not beleive.
Some of it is hillarious as I look back now,but was a heartbreaker as well as breaking other things as well,,,,you dig?
I have sent Howard a copy of this un-issued tape with myself playing on the session and Iam certain he has heard what I refer to.

I spoke with Harold the night before he passed on a few years back. He had little or no family left. His much "younger than himself" wife Dolores passed away back in 1978,,,she was a wonderful person and her death was "untimely" and should have been prevented except for the ignorance of a physician she had kept her faith in. Dolores was 42 years young. .

She was a local gal from NJ and a great person. This devastated Harold. His work was his life,,other than occasional "tennis" as an outlet,,his life was the Rhodes Piano.

He had children but they were distanced from Harold for many years. He passed on alone in
a rest home in Fullerton California.

To see a wonderful dedicated man leave as he did broke my heart and others who have known
him. He had everyhing a person could ask for
but his personal life after his wife's passing made him a shell of a man other than his love for his Piano project.

I think most all of you will enjoy my expieriences and stories of Harold and myself
during the Pre CBS days as well as the ressurection of the Rhodes Piano after the CBS takover.

He did it the hard way my friend and no one was more critical of the Rhodes Piano than
Harold Rhodes himself was.

To read your comments rang a bell,,,as I do know what you make reference to as far as that "sound" no one,,but no one was more aware of it than Harold.

I will address all the work,,,,fun,,,,and hardships that Harold undured during those years at Fender and CBS.

He was a supporter of mine and was completly
upset after my resignation from Fender. I have many memories of him and letters from way back when he first started with Fender back in 1954 with his Piano Bass.

He was ridiculed by many early on,,,,but he recieved his due after the CBS takeover.
But not to the extent of self satisfaction as he went to his grave an unhappy man,,,as he was still not pleased with his Rhodes Piano.

Harold went on to Roland after his CBS contract ran out, but his happy and unhappy days were his days with Fender.He was one hell of a human being, we spent a lot of time
with Henry Goldrich owner of Mannys Music on W 48th St,,and Harold was a frequent visitor
to the Carnegie Delicatessen along with myself and Henry...we even took Chic Corea with us a few times.

Oh the heck with it,,,I cant tell those stories here,,,,you will know who did it at the end before you read it,.

Was it the butler??? Well,,,when I can I will attempt to entertain those of you who will enjoy the personal things I had had the
privledge of being part of during my life as
a Fender "do everything guy"

Those were days that I cannot express in words in any shape or form,,but I will try to, in some small way give you all an idea of what it was like being a Fender "do everthing
guy in the "Big Apple".

I promised you a tape,,,I didnt forget,,I will somehow get one to you and you will hear
what I made refernce to regarding the Rhodes
Piano.

Harold was a "prince" of a guy,, Most all of those great people are gone now,,but they will live on in this "do everthing" guys life forever. I will get a tape to you, I have been on the DL for a bit here with a small health problem,,,,,but for you,,my friend I will do it,,,,one favor though,,,say hello to all those chicks (no not Corea) but the chicks in Williamsburg.Ask
them if they still remember me.

Be well,,,,I have your mailing address.......
Get a pair of pants for Howard Please. Edited for spelling and I still see more errors,,,I need a secretary,,, dont make fun of me,,,,you may be old someday yourself.

So will Howard,,,,,,wonder what his legs will
look like then... PS I kept in touch with Harold over the years on a weekly basis by telephone,,,,he is missed. I have never heard an unkind word spoken about Harold Rhodes.
Copyright (c) by Jody Carver 2002
All Rights Reserved

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 11 January 2003 at 11:24 AM.]

Any and all modifications were done in the field,,,some had to be returned to Fullerton
California. I have no idea where your piano was purchased,,some dealers had a piano in inventory without a modification,,,every dealer was sent a mailing regarding this so called mod,,or re-call,,.

I have no idea as to why your particular piano had a bad sound,,,by 1973,,most all modifications had been made.

If your piano was bought new,,it should have been modified, if it were used and bought from a dealer..it would have been modified at no cost to the buyer.

All 73 suitcase piano's had a new system of tone bar design,,,whereas the hammer was adjustable to increase or lessen the "percussive" effect allowing a much more
desired tone.The amp design of the 73 suitcase was re-designed as well.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 22 April 2002 at 08:22 AM.]

Send me an e-mail.
All those CBS clowns (suits)pretty dumb for sure. But there were good ones like forrest, George and Bill Carson.

oh--and I've got a Tony Mottola story for you, Jody, when I find the time.

"And Al Gershen---have you considered contacting Gene Fields about bringing your guitar up to snuff? Who would be more appropriate?

I did contact Gene Fields before I decided to purchase the guitar and he did not seem interested in doing any work on this guitar. He suggested that I not buy the instrument and instead purachase one of his newer GSI pedal guitars.

I guess I have nostalgia in my blood and I opted for the PS 210.

------------------
Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1956),
Fender PS 210 (1971) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 (1960)
Al's Photos at http://www.alsphotographs.com

------------------
Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul