The standard C6 pedal has not changed since its inception, ie, raising 4 and 8 a whole tone. But it is seldom used by most players. One can watch player after player who use the C6 neck play set after set and NEVER touch the 4th pedal. I have observered that fact for years. Jeff Newman once said, "It is the most useless pedal ever put on the PSG."

There are players who do use it however. Bill Stafford uses it all the time. I have seen Herby Wallace use it ocassionally.

I love it and use it probably more than most. I do not presently have it on my U-12. But I will have it one day on the guitar.

Used alone it gives an usual sounding Major 7th. Used with Pedal 5 changes the standard D7th into a D6th and is useful here sometimes.

One unusual movement I have not seen anyone do which I do sometimes is to use it in unison with the knee lever that lowers the 3rd sring a half a tone. Then let them resolve in different directions. Like we do 2 and 5 on the E neck.

There is a trend where some have removed this change all together and replaced it with changes solely on the E9th neck. The PF pedal lowering 5, 6 and 10 a whole tone is the most common.

Still others are putting the PF as pedal one and moving A, B, and C over one pedal each. Again doing away with the C6 pedal 4. There are a few like Paul who keep both. I find this makes the pedal very stiff for my tastes.

Although I have heard that the Franklin guitar can have 6 or 7 pulls with little increase in stiffness. (A fact I have great difficulty with, but I will accept it cuz PF said so).

Jimmy Crawford once had a real odd change on the 4th pedal on his C neck. He was pulling about 4 bass strings as I recall. And I don't recall what those changes were. It appeared to be an off the wall change. So I never fooled with it.

That is all I know of.

God bless you in your quest,

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 26 June 2002 at 04:32 AM.]

I have not begun to explore the Ab change so any help would be appreciated.

I used to have the Bb changes on pedal 4 of a Sho~Bud I used to have.

My question is: Should I move the Ab changes to a lever and the Bb changes to pedal 4? Here is my complete C6th tuning.

   4  5  6  7  8  lkl  lkv  lkr  rkl rkr
D           D#
E        F
C                       C#        B   D
A  Ab                        Bb       B
G     F#    F
E        D#    D
C              B   C# 
A  Ab          G             Bb
F     F#           E
C     D        D   A

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

OOPS!! Edited 'cuz I had RKR incorrect.

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler

[This message was edited by Richard Sinkler on 28 June 2002 at 12:14 PM.]

Probably, it is that most don't want more than 8 floor pedals and put something on that they like better or to copy PF's "P4" (tell us, the rest of you, what he does with it). Since you can use P6 with P7, then you can use P6 with P4, or with a diminished chord. Lots of uses.

Heck, use both feet. Chalker used that change a lot - and he used both feet a lot. His C to B lower was on the floor and he never changed that.

I would like some responses. I think most players go with the 8 pedal "standard" setup rather than putting on changes that should be there musically, therefore more pedals.

Folks, if you don't know what I'm talking about, visit Tom Bradshaw's website and check out catalog# BE-09 -- it's Bob's work and it's excellent.

quote:

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It escapes me why someone would call the whole tone raise of the A's on "P4" useless

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Bob, I wouldn' take the statement so literally. Obviously the pedal has some decent uses. But I think that the point was that it is a pedal that could be skipped and it wouldn't be missed a lot. Probably part of the reason is that the string 4 B note is readily available on pedal 7 and on a knee lever (on string 3) so in a sense, there is a little overkill. Mind you, I like the pedal, and I use it, but I also think I can see where that statement was coming from.

quote:

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Chalker used that change a lot - and he used both feet a lot.

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I was under the impressions that CC was not a two-footer. I watched the 1986 video and I don't think I saw him use two feet, and I was watching for it. Are you absolutely certain that he was a big two-foot advocate? It didn't seem that way on the video. Thanks .. Jeff

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 29 June 2002 at 11:48 AM.]

quote:

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The 4th pedal gives you a 3m chord in the root position (Em at the nut). If you have a high D string it's a Em7

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Course Buddy does it all the time and it is one of the most fun things and joys to watch of his awesome wizardries.

He can come off that dang volume pedal, stomp on one or more pedals, just as quickly move back on the volume pedal as though he had never left it. And all the while grinnin' like a cat on a slick tin rough, as if to say,

"EAT your heart out fellows"

Land sakes alive I do love that yungun!

May our precious Lord richly bless him and you folks always,

carl

But now we put P7 up on a Knee and use the C to B usually on a knee. So using Both Feet is not needed.

And just as quick he would jump to another pedal (or two) without so much as an instant of time elapsed. His feet could dance across those pedals like greased lightning. It was the most awesome thing I have ever seen.

By the way he was using two Fender Bassman amps. First time I had ever seen a steel player use two amps,

Lemme redeem myself here. I saw Curly play c.1965 or so and it was a Fender 2000, no knee levers. His second str. lower was on the floor (C/B)at pedal 9, I think. At P10, he lowered the first str. to D and the second to B also. Why? I wouldn't have wanted to be the one to ask him. With P10 and whatever his "P5" was, he got a 13th. It took both feet. He had a ZB set up the same way, although it might have had one knee lever...at that time KL's were just beginning.

MR. SINKLER

Aha! You've added the Maurice pedal!

MR. BELL

Lemme redeem myself. First time I saw Curly play was on a Fender 2000 c. 1965 or 66. He had the second str. lower (C/B) on P9, as I recall. On P10, he also lowered that and the first str. to D. Gave him a 13 with whatever his "P5" was, hence both feet. He also had a ZB with the same setup (unless it had a KL-just beginning at that time).

LARRY BELL

Thanks for the good words. Don't ask me to play it. I kinda could way back when, but I never tried with accompaniment.

RICH SINKLER.

Aha! You added the Maurice pedal.

JEFF LAMPERT

quote:

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-- quote
The 4th pedal gives you a 3m chord in the root position (Em at the nut). If you have a high D string it's a Em7
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Pedal 7, strings 3,4,5,6, does the same thing, no?

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 30 June 2002 at 08:17 AM.]

Gave him in effect almost the same as your usual P7, but more versatile in a way.

I would always use my right foot on those two pedals before knees.

But not Curly, as Carl Says, He could do miracles with that left foot. He also had duplicate pulls, so he could do it all with his left foot. I still say he had the most educated left foot that I have ever seen.

quote:

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Pedal 7 doesn't give you the low B, which is the 5th of the chord

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler

I'll have to look at these pedals in other contexts like you mentioned.

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler

Ernie Pollock http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm