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Author
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Topic: Zane Beck's Tuning
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Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 08 September 2002 04:54 PM
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b0b,
I know that there has been a little discussion on Zane Beck's tuning. When
I browsed the archives I found about 3
commentaries which briefly mentioned his
setup. Have I missed something? This
unique tuning and setup deserves some
in-depth commentary and analysis on the
Forum. I have a copy of Zane's Cho-Ped-ent
and will be happy to post it, if that has
not already been done. The genius of his setup is in it's simplicity & versatility.
Please reply.
Thanks!
W.C. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 08 September 2002 06:14 PM
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Please do, Wayne. I'd like to see it.------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 08 September 2002 07:08 PM
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b0b,
Before I post it, I think I need a lesson in "Forum Computer 101". I'm going to send you an E-Mail, explaining the difficulty I
am having, instead of thrashing around in
Forum space.
W.C. |
bob drawbaugh
Member From: scottsboro, al. usa
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posted 08 September 2002 07:30 PM
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Wayne, check here. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/000800.html [This message was edited by bob drawbaugh on 08 September 2002 at 07:31 PM.] |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 08:06 AM
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O.K., by request, here is Zane Beck's tuning.
LKL LKV LKR p1 p2 p3 p4 RKL RKR
1 G# A A
2 F# G
3 E Eb F F#
4 C# D D D#
5 B C# C
6 G# A A
7 F# F F
8 D Eb E
9 B C# Bb
10 G# G A
11 E Eb F#
12 B C# Bb There it is! now let's analyze it guys!
[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 09 September 2002 at 09:51 AM.] |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 08:21 AM
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Wow!! See, b0b, you should have answered my E-Mail. In order to decipher this mess, you would have to order my secret code book, which is currently unavailable, even to me.
I'll try again later!!! Arghh!! |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 08:40 AM
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Thanks to Bob Drawbaugh, you won't have to decipher my feeble attempt at posting a tuning! Thanks Bob! I owe you!  Big grin!
W.C. |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 09 September 2002 09:51 AM
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I fixed it for you here Wayne.
LKL LKV LKR p1 p2 p3 p4 RKL RKR
1 G# A A
2 F# G
3 E Eb F F#
4 C# D D D#
5 B C# C
6 G# A A
7 F# F F
8 D Eb E
9 B C# Bb
10 G# G A
11 E Eb F#
12 B C# Bb
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 09:54 AM
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I've edited the title of the topic. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 12:31 PM
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You know, this is a very powerful tuning, but anyone using it would be pretty much on their own. It bears very little resemblance to the "standard" tunings. Translating E9 or C6 instructional material would be virtually impossible.
That's never stopped me from trying new tunings, but I wouldn't recommend it for the beginning steel player.
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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
Karlis Abolins
Member From: Burien, WA, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 01:21 PM
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The top part of this tuning looks like the standard E9th with a C# that you can pedal to d/d#. If you moved the C# and F# to the top, most people could find their way around. The bottom looks like the start of a E13. You can't get the 13 without raising the 5th to a 6th at the same time but otherwise it looks like a 13 tuning to me. There are a lot of chords on that tuning. Pretty slick!Karlis |
Johnny Cox
Member From: The great state of Texas
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posted 09 September 2002 01:27 PM
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This tuning has many simularities to the E13th I use. Of coarse I only use 10 strings. Johnny |
bob drawbaugh
Member From: scottsboro, al. usa
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posted 09 September 2002 07:09 PM
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Ok here is what I know, which isn't much.
RKL.. will give you a 12 string E9th
LKL.. will give you a 12 B6th tunning, let
of the LKL and you have what would
be the 6th pedal on a U12 or C6th.
LKR..would be the F lever on the E9th.
Pedal 1..would be like the 5th pedal on
the U12 or C6th.
Pedal 2 and 3..standard E9th A abd B pedals.
Pedal 4..used like the B and C pedal on the
E9th but used for a Dim. cord on the
6th side.
RKR.. Used to get a #9th cord on top.Well thats not much I know but Zane sure got a lot out of it. [This message was edited by bob drawbaugh on 09 September 2002 at 07:10 PM.] |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 09 September 2002 07:36 PM
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As b0b said, it is a very powerful tuning with very few pedals.But now with all the pedals and knee levers we have now, We can open up that tuning more. I use a version of it. I call it E6 or E13. BE posted a tuning that he has experimented with on 12 strings. And it is pretty darned good. Along the same lines as Zane's. Zane was way ahead of his time in a way.You can call it an E6, E9, E13 , even D6,it all depends on pedals used...al  [This message was edited by Al Marcus on 09 September 2002 at 07:39 PM.] |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 08:00 PM
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Although I have never put the full setup on a S-12, I have experimented enough to outline a few elementary, but significant, qualities of this unique tuning.
First of all, it is a Universal tuning without actually being a Universal. Explanation: With a typical Universal, like a Bb6th/Eb9th, or a E9th/B6th; the player typically finds himself thinking in terms of two separate tunings. With Zane's, you only have one to think about, and yet it combines the best qualities of the following tunings:
E-9th, C-6th, E-diatonic, and of course E-13!
I have heard that, at some point in time, Zane tuned the whole thing to "D", but with the same pattern of intervals. I tried this, and wow!!! What a deep, rich, sound; reminiscent of A-6th and C-6th, with lows and highs.
Notice how the baic tuning is laid out much like the C-6th tuning w/ pedal #6 depressed. A nice 9th chord with the root note (the middle E string) omitted. A very common chord, used quite often in both blues and jazz. Then pick strings 5,6,7,& 8, with pedal 3 depressed and there is that beautiful major 7th that is found on E-9th by picking strings 5,6,7, & 9 , with the two main pedals depressed. And, because the E is omitted, you can even strum or rake it as with a C-6th tuning. Then flip over, in your mind, to E-9th again. The middle E string is still there via RKL. So are the E to F, and E to Eb levers; which are usually considered the mainstay of E-9th. The three main E-9th pedals are there, also. You will note that, in comparison to E-9th, he used the Jimmy Day pedal and lever arrangement. Speaking of E-9th, years ago, Buddy E. used to tune his 2nd string to C# and raise into the D and D#.
Well, you guessed it! There it is on string #4 with LKV and RKL. This is just basic stuff to open your minds to the possibilities. Just the tip of the iceberg.
I wish some of our advanced theorists would take this and really explore the possibilities! I'll shut up, for now.
W.C. |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 08:07 PM
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Correction to paragraph 2 of my last comment. Pedals 2&3, or 3&4 must be depressed to get that Maj7th. Sorry!
My hands didn't keep up with my brain.
That affects my playing too!
W.C. |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 09 September 2002 11:26 PM
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A special thanks to b0b, Bob, Ricky, & Jim,
who all pitched in to help me correct my blunders. I really mean it! You guys are super! I hope to get some more input on this subject (Zane's Tuning), though.
Johnny, have you ever posted your E-13 setup?
And, would you be willing to do it if you haven't done it already? There are different versions of E-13, just as there are different configurations of E-9th. I, for one value your ideas.
W.C. |
bob drawbaugh
Member From: scottsboro, al. usa
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posted 10 September 2002 05:22 PM
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Al,you know I don't think Zane whould have anything different on his guitar today. He could do it all with what he had. So I don't think he would have changed anything. But, we will never know. |
B.Jenkins
Member From: Parkersburg, WV...U.S.A
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posted 10 September 2002 06:10 PM
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Zane's setup is amazeing, I watched him and Mr. Thorp trade licks one night ,and between the 12 string of Mr.Beck and the 14 string of Mr.Thorp, it was like battle of the fastest fingers alive.
Just before Zane died, He built a 12 string with his setup for a fellow here in town, and when it came with the video it was still out of reach for this fellow, and it's been in the case for about 10 years or so, and he was talking about selling it,
If anyone is interested let me know and I'll give you the fellows phone number, it's a 12 string, all black with a small pad.
B.Jenkins |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 10 September 2002 07:40 PM
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Bob-Yep, I can wholeheartedly agree with that.Wayne-well put, " a Universl tuning without actually being a Universal" Just one tuning to play it all on...al |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 10 September 2002 09:18 PM
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In case anyone hasen't guessed, Wayne Cox is a player of extraodinary talent, he was one of Nashville's greatest,busiest,best all around steel guitar players for several years before he wisely decided to enjoy beautiful Louisanna. He has recorded a great album with Johnny Cox, (several years ago) and I hope he'll do more in the future. A true monster in our business. Shame he's such a rotten guy! ( just kidding) A nicer person is hard to find. Just though I'd add this in case someone out there doesn't know him or is familar with his playing. He's great by any standard and if he wanted, he could be anywhere playing with anybody, anytime. (that'll be $200.00 Wayne).
Bobbe |
Bob Tuttle
Member From: San Angelo, Tx, USA
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posted 10 September 2002 09:53 PM
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I wonder how this would work as a 10 string tuning? Everything exactly as it is only eliminate the 10th and 12th strings. You wouldn't have quite the range as the 12 string tuning, but it should still have a lot of possibilities. What do you think? |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 11 September 2002 09:57 AM
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Re: Seymore,
As for Bobbe Seymore...hmmmm, well, I just hope Brandybrat can keep him under control! I'm sitting here, listening to this great karaoke CD of Ray Price tunes. The steel player is great, too! Personally, I think the whole thing is "priceless". Bobbe, you should really listen to the steel player on this CD, you might learn something! It's obvious that whoever produced this thing,put a lot of thought and effort into it. Oh well, maybe someday you'll be able to do one like it Bobbe.Steel your friend, W.C. |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 11 September 2002 10:19 AM
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Re: Bob Tuttle,
Bob I typed up a long dissertation on this and hit the "Submit" button. Promptly, I got a message saying "You have entered the wrong password, use the 'Back' button to re-enter it". I did and it erased everything I wrote!
Maybe b0b could rig us a "save" button.
Anyway, here is some of what I wrote.
Personally, I know that I could live without the 12th string, but I'm not so sure about #10. Reason is, w/ p4 it becomes very useful as the root of the IV chord. I'm very aware that many players try to avoid the low thirds, but I just haven't found another practical way to get that A note. I've even tried raising the low E to A. It kind of works, but sure wears out the string in a hurry. Lowering the B to A kind of works but it tends to interfere with p3, which is a fundamental part of the E-9th sound. I'm open for suggestions, especially since this same problem plagues me with extended or expanded E-9th tunings.
W.C. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 11 September 2002 11:21 AM
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You got that right Wayne, he's the greatest steel player-producer I ever heard, as a matter of fact, I like the "Price-Less" CD so well that I bought over 10.000 of them! BobbeSeymour III
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Kim West
Member From: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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posted 16 September 2002 01:02 PM
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wayne, and everyone else: THANKS A LOT!! this is incredibly useful information, and if i can figure out how to SAVE this stuff in my computer, i will. you guys are great. |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 16 September 2002 02:49 PM
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Are there any Zane Beck records a guy can purchase? I bought a new D-11 ZB in 1967, but so far as I know, I've never heard him play.
JIM |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 16 September 2002 06:55 PM
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I saw Zane Beck play in person in 1968 in Napa, California at Tom Bradshaws west coast pedal steel show. He and Chuck Wright, Noel Boggs, Vance Terry and Reece Anderson, another one I admired. I talked to him and he gave me a copy of his tuning. I might have it around here somewhere.
He played great and I really admired what he has accomplished. I had a couple of his LP's,
I moved so much for a while that a lot of the old LP's I had are missing....al |
bob drawbaugh
Member From: scottsboro, al. usa
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posted 17 September 2002 06:47 AM
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JIM, if you will check with Scotty's music I'm shure he has some. His best one in my book is, Zane Beck A Tribute. This is his best example of what can be done on a 12 string with only 4 pedals and 5 knee levers. |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 17 September 2002 07:42 PM
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I remember a couyple of guys that were sort of following in Zane's footsteps if thats possible,,,kind of proteges, Zane King and Blake Fougarusse. Anyone know what ever happened to them??? |
Ted Solesky
Member From: Mineral Wells, Texas, USA
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posted 17 September 2002 09:11 PM
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When I visited Zane at his home (1983), he told me that he had his daughter go to the piano and play all the big chords that she knew. He said that he was able to duplicate them all with his tunning. At that time he was hoping that I would experiment with his tunning. I was too shy about making a change. He had to be a genius to invent that ideal tunning. He played "Born to Lose" for me and the approach that he played knocked me out. |
bob drawbaugh
Member From: scottsboro, al. usa
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posted 18 September 2002 01:28 PM
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Sonny, Zane King is a producer in Nashville,
I don't know about Blake. |
Bob Simmons
Member From: Trafford, Alabama, USA
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posted 18 September 2002 05:41 PM
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aL,THANKS FOR REMEMBERING THE nAPA SHOW OF 1968,MANY OF US BELEIVE THIS WAS THE FIRST EVER STEEL GUITAR CONVENTION! a PLAYER YOU MISSED WAS vANCE tERRY, wRIGHT BUILT HIM A 19! PEDAL GUITAR- HE'S A MONSTER PLAYER, WONDER WHAT HAPPENED WITH HIM? aS FOR zANE, i WAS HERE IN bIRMINGHAM,aL WHEN zANE AND "spook" RECORDED THEIR ALBUM, HAVE A COPY. bOB sIMMONS (205)647-2331 |
Kim West
Member From: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 08:18 AM
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(...and this one.) |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 08 April 2004 07:09 PM
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Bob-I do remember Vance Terry at Tom's first west coast pedal steel show. Napa, Calif.
Chuck Wright was there with his Wright custom, Vance had , if I can remember 20 pedals staggered up and down on that Wright. He was very Jazzy in his playing. I liked Zane's 4 pedal tuning and I also was very interested in Reece's new Bb6maj7th. Reece's was ,if I remember 5 pedals and 5 knee levers, so they both caught my eye as two "Lean and Mean" tunings.....al ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ |
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