Besides being more expensive to build, another problem is for the steelers who are continually making changes to their copedent. It is quite difficult to make changes to the underbelly of a p/p. You pretty much have to decide on what you want and leave it that way.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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[This message was edited by b0b on 15 December 2006 at 11:03 AM.]

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On the P-P, the bellcrank is made of seven parts and silver soldered, on the LeGrande, just two parts and stamped!
Multiply this by the typical 42 bellcranks on most simple double 10 guitars and you can see where a little of this extra expense is hiding.

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I agree, Bobby...a "little" extra expense. I also notice that the bell-cranks and shafts were made of (cheap) plain steel and nickel-plated, instead of being made of stainless steel. Had Emmons had the equipment, the bell cranks could have been spot-welded, or induction welded instead of silver-soldering; that would have been a far more economical solution in the long term. As far as the rest of the parts (collars and swivels), they could be knocked out by the thousands on a modern CNC machine today.

Okay, so the bell-cranks cost a little more (I'll be generous and say they cost $10 more each to make), so that only accounts for about $400 in extra cost. But wait a minute, that's only around 10% more when we're talking a $4,000 guitar (which is where we are today).

That really ain't no big thing!

I think the reason they dropped the P/P is that the market wanted a different (better, more versatile and easier to deal with) guitar. The market wanted a guitar that had more adjustments for timing. (We've even had people arguing here on the Forum that 14-hole bellcranks were a "necessity" for accurate timing!) Timing adjustments on a P/P were about nil, you had the compression springs, and (if you were lucky) 2 holes on the bellcranks. They wanted a guitar that you didn't have to reach underneath and fidget with barrel tuners. They wanted a guitar that would do triple raises and lowers. They wanted a simpler, lighter, quieter, and easier-to-deal-with guitar.

I won't argue that the old P/P's sounded good, they certainly did, but players wanted more than just a good sound. The truth is that most pros today don't play one, and don't want to play one. Emmons isn't making them anymore for the same reason that GM isn't making a '57 Chevy.

The demand just isn't there.

For what people are paying today for a new Caddy, they could certainly build a '57 Chevy. But they wouldn't sell very many...because people today want more than a bench seat, a heater, and an AM radio.

What was "good enough" in the old days is simply no longer marketable to the masses.

I have a hard time trying to figure out which guitar I like the best. They are two completely different guitars.

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...with all newly manufactured parts. The guitar sounds like an original PP, plays good and stays in tune. It is set up exactly like my LeGrande lll (bought last year). Both are D-10 and the PP actually cost a little less.

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Thank you Darrell for that information!

Let's speculate on what the Lashley's had for breakfast this morning, and if we answer that question, we can move on to what they will have for lunch.

[This message was edited by Chris Lucker on 16 December 2006 at 10:27 AM.]

For instance, on the E raise and lower, you have to have some slack in the E raise to accomidate the E lower. This necessitates having some slack in the E raise lever.

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I think it's safe to say that ease of setup had as much to do with the shift to the LeGrand.

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Yes, I agree. Most people these days want a guitar that doesn't require a "specialist" to keep it in tip-top shape.

As for manufacturing costs, remember that, when multiplied across dozens or hundreds of instruments, 2 or 3% extra cost can doom a line. 10 or 20% extra can really be prohibitive, especially if the line isn't selling well, as the p/p wasn't toward the end of its run.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 18 December 2006 at 03:19 PM.]

All-pull: http://www.steelguitar.com/steelmap/maptop/changer.htm

Push-pull: http://www.steelguitar.com/steelmap/maptop/ppchangr.htm