But, with all that said, Buddy Emmons still has that change (both A's to B) on his guitar and has as long as I can remember. There's GOTTA be a reason. I'm sure others will come up with some, but I offer this one alternative that I've found useful.

BUT they do engage it now and then. And when they do, like BE or Herby Wallace, et al, it gives a sound not possible with any other change.

One top player said in his seminar once, "it is the most useless pedal EVER put on a PSG!"

Maybe so, but the standard D-10 PSG is still shipped with it. I like the change a lot. I use it more than others probably. The reason for this is, I can't stand knowing there is a change I am not using. As a result I have found some changes that sound good to me.

So, if you have this change on your guitar, why don't you try using it more; and who knows what you might find?

May God richly bless you all,

I use pedal 4 much more than I use pedal 8, for example.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Could you describe some of the things you do with the pedal, or maybe some of the concepts of when and how you use it.

First, there are several Bobby White/Hank Thompson style cliche's that use that pedal, either by itself or with pedal 5. By itself, it's a M7 lick; with pedal 5, it's a chord moving from a 9th to a 13th chord by moving the 5th tone (s. 4) up a whole step.

The whole-step raise also allows a half-step juxtaposition with s. 3, great for melodic passages where a half-step is needed, like between scalar steps 3 and 4, 5 and #5, 6 and 7b, or M7 and root. It's the only pedal/lever that allows us a contiguous half-step on different strings.

One example of how I use it melodically: I want to play a diatonic speed lick from the 6th up to the octave 6th tone and back down, like in Orange Blossom Special. It's analgous to using the mis-named chromatic (actually diatonic) strings on E9.

Key of Bb
1____________________________3__________
2________________________________3______
3________________________3______________
4_______________3---3##_________________
5______3b---3___________________________
6___3___________________________________

1______3_________________________________
2___3____________________________________
3__________3_____________________________
4______________3##---3___________________
5________________________3---3b__________
6_________________________________3______

Also, it gives us a unison with s.3 lowered with a lever. When used pentatonically with s.6 as root, in a blues scale, it raises the scalar 4th tone to the 5th.

I use the pedal kinetically when just free improvising as well.

One more thing. This pedal does not replace the 1/2 tone lower on s.3, since that note there affords us a different set of melodic opportunities though it gives us the same note as p.4; neither does it replace the whole tone raise on s.4 with p.7, which has its own uses as well.

I'm sure I can think of other more specific things later, but this is what comes off the top of my head right now.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 23 January 2003 at 11:22 AM.]

Your wisdom is exceeding only by your being a gentleman. No way could I say more. You said it all friend, luv ya!

God bless you,

2____________________________________________
3___13______13_______11______9______11_____13
4______13##____11##______9##___11##____13##__
5____________________________________________

This lick must be played alternating fingers and blazing fast to sound correct. But moving the position up or down a fourth can give you the theme to "Bumblebee."

Carl... Thanks mucho, amigo. Any day that I can be complimented by gentlemen like you and Keith Hilton (on another thread) is a great day for me. Come to Texas for the Jamboree, "Big C"

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Here is my take on that. Lowering of the A to Ab is used with just about everything. So it is best I think to have it on LKL as BE has it. It can even split with Pedal 7 for a C9th chord very well.

If you check BE's C6 copedent, it pretty much says it all about placement of the knee levers. I can think of ONE more knee lever that is needed, and I would put in on LKV and raise the 6th string a half a tone.

Buddy does not have this, but to me it completes the standard C6 tuning to my way of thinking. IE:

LKL lowers 4 a half a tone.

LKV raises 6 a half a tone.

LKR raises 4 a half a tone.

RKL lowers 3 a half a tone.

RKR raises 3 and 7 a half a tone.

NOTE: If there is room, I would add a 2nd LKL and lower the 5th string a whole tone. This is a fantastic change and fits in great with jazz; when used probably with the correct grips.

Coupled with the standard pedals 5 thru 8, this C6 copedent would lack little IMO, especially if the first string was a D instead of the standard G note.

This of course is based on the fact that MOST PSG players use C6 for western swing and/or jamming.

God bless you all,

I , for one thing among others, like to get that George Shearing effect, like he gets with locked hands on piano......al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 23 January 2003 at 10:22 PM.]

As Mike Cass told me, RIGHT to RAISE, LEFT to LOWER -- 3rd string on rt knee -- 4th on left

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 24 January 2003 at 06:29 AM.]

key of E
6____________________________________________
7____________________________2_____2_________
8_____2____2_____2##___2##___________________
9____________________________________________
10____2##__2##___2##___2##___2##___2##_______

6____________________________________________
7____________________________________________
8_____2##__2##____2____2_____2##___2##_______
9____________________________________________
10____2##__2##___2##___2##___2##___2##_______

or this...

6____________________________________________
7_______________________2____________________
8_________2_____2##____________2##_______2___
9____________________________________________
10____2##____2##____2##___2##______2##_______

... played ad nauseum.

There are many variations of this rhythm pattern in blues and R&B music.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 24 January 2003 at 11:48 AM.]

Problem: If you put the s.7 lower on the same pedal as the s.4 raise, you lose the root tone when using the pedal for a M7 chord. You can put the s.7 lower on a knee lever, if you have a knee lever to burn. I have 5 on C6 and need all of them for other thingies.

Could be one of those trade-offs I keep hearing about.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

(BTW: I've seen him play YASB without the E to F change. He pulled the 6th string up a half tone behind the bar. He never ceases to amaze me...)

Mine is E (6) to F right now, but I'm not using it much, chording mostly. Might be time to go back to the A's to B. I haven't had that change since '77. It'd probably be fun.

quote:

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Problem: If you put the s.7 lower on the same pedal as the s.4 raise, you lose the root tone when using the pedal for a M7 chord.

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