One of the first licks that was used after Buddy did this was as follows:

He is going from a V7 chord to a 1 chord. Example:

key of A

1. Bar at the 7th fret.

2. Pick strings 5 and 6 with A and B down.

3. Slide down two frets and let off the A pedal.

4. Then as the strings sustain, let off the B pedal.

This lick which just about every steel player I know of uses all the time, bothered me for a long time.

"what do you mean bothered you?"

Ok, being trained by a Julliard "Ole mama lion", she drilled and grilled into my head many things about musical theory. And one of the things she taught was; if you can only play two notes in a 7th chord, the notes must be the 3rd and 7th tones of that chord.

So, what bothered me was, "WHY that lick sounded so dang good?". Since it clearly violated a music rule I had learned years earlier. I would listen and analyze for years trying to figure out how come a 2 note chord using the 1st and 7th tones of a V7 chord sounded sooooooooo seventheee to my ears.

My first thought was that some other member in the band was adding the 3rd tone and my ears were still "in tune" with my musical theory. But then I noticed it sounded JUST as good to me if I played it alone without any accompanyment.

I am still not sure why it sounds like a great V7 chord even though it does not have the third note in there, UNLESS it is the sustain from the two notes that are picked at the 5th fret which are still retintively in my ear; that is causing my ears to perceive that lick to sound sooo much like a full seventh chord.

Comments greatfully accepted.

To my ear it works because the dissonance ot the tri tone interval resoving inward is replaced with the dissonance of the major 2nd interval resolving outward. In the first case you have the leading tone moving upward 1/2 step to the tonic and in the other case you the suspended tone dropping 1/2 step to the 3rd of the tonic chord.

It was his belief (and others)that the listener should never actually hear the changes...but, rather should be unaware that a "change" was made. When "Slowly" came out, suddenly he was squeezing those changes and complaining about all that he had missed. By then, all of us 'T-8' guys were catching up with him, fast.

We learn as we go.

bUd

[This message was edited by Bud Harger on 22 September 2003 at 05:13 PM.]

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Gibson Auotharp (?)

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Jeff's Jazz

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 22 September 2003 at 06:41 PM.]

Yes, that's it. I edited my post. Thanks for the input.

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if you can only play two notes in a 7th chord, the notes must be the 3rd and 7th tones of that chord.
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Doesn't that lick have all the needed pitches?

E-G# (1st & 3rd of E7) tells your ear it's E

D-F# (7th and 9th of E7) tells your ear it's not just E7, it's E9

D-E (7th & 1st of E7) this major second used this way sounds very seventh-y all by itself

C#-A (3rd and 1st fo A) resolves to A

With those notes and that voice leading, that lick has everything that even the stuffiest classical harmony textbook would say it needs (and more: the F#) to just scream out we are leaving a seventh chord and heading to the I.

It's so strong that if you played it in the wrong place and then frowned at the bass player, people would believe HE made a mistake!

[This message was edited by Bill Monk on 24 September 2003 at 12:06 PM.]

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Mike,

Is it your understanding that Jimmy is the player who originally split the pedals?

Since I won't debate it, I will only say that IF what you say is true, it shatters everything I have been told and "knew" to be true for almost 40 yrs.

It was my understanding that Buddy came up with it, and was telling JD about it on the phone and then Jimmy not realizing how Buddy had split the pedals, split them opposite to what Buddy did.

In essence, I never knew that JD had anyting to do with the creation of it; else I would have given him equal credit for it. I stand corrected if my understanding is incorrect.

Thanks again,

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

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It doesn't really matter who split it first

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I certainly wouldn't presume to know how Buddy feels about this, but as a general point about human nature, most people that invent or accomplish something like to have credit for it. It's part of the person's legacy and is not something that most people are willing to give up. Again, this is human nature.

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doesn't it take more than 2 notes to positively define a particular chord?

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The fact is, to "positively" define a chord takes ALL the notes of a chord. If anything is missing, the chord would be ambiguous from a strictly theoretical viewpoint (for example, even leaving out the 5th tone, which is often pointed out as being an unnecessary note, is potentially ambiguous from a theoretical viewpoint because how does one know that the 5th shouldn't be flatted or augmented if no 5th is played at all!?) HOWEVER, the theoretical defintion of a chord is relatively unimportant. What always matters is the context. This includes what the other instruments are playing, how you choose to voice your notes, the key of the song, the chords preceding and following the given chord, the style of the song, expectations of the audience, how inside or outside one chooses to play, and so on. All these things to some lesser or greater extent affect the choices a player makes when playing a combination of notes. There is no absolute rule that says you must play anything, including the 3rd and 7th, or anything else for that matter. What matters is understanding the role of the 3rd, 7th, or 5th, in as many contexts as possibile, so that it can be applied in some reasonable, musical, effective way if one chooses to do so, or left out for the same reasons.

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It doesn't really matter who split it first

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Now that I recall, it's usually the drummer that splits first.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Now the stories I heard are that Buddy and Jimmy both the split the pedals without the other knowing about it at about the same time without the other knowing about it at first. This was the reason that they both split it differently.

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I would love Buddy or someone to set me straight if this is wrong.

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The story you heard is what Jimmy Day himself told me and Bryan Adams in Knoxville 10 years ago. This is what I was going by for my point.
So as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter anymore. I'm going to let it go since Jimmy aint around to tell his side of the story anymore.

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Ok, being trained by a Julliard "Ole mama lion", she drilled and grilled into my head many things about musical theory. And one of the things she taught was; if you can only play two notes in a 7th chord, the notes must be the 3rd and 7th tones of that chord.

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A related phenomenon is the two ways that the interval can resolve. You raise one a half step and lower the other a half step. "Inward" or "outward":

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