If you have AB down, and lower the 9th string from D to C# you get a unison note with your 10th string. So why is it needed?

It does allow nice resolutions from a suspended chord to the major, but there must be more.

These two lowers don't do much together, but they are so far apart on the strings that they don't interfere with each other and can be used separately. So by adding the C# lower to the 2nd string lowering lever you got an extra missing note very easily mechanically.

Also, it is interesting that for the early mechanics a lever to lower a string worked most easily moving right. A spring held the lever to the left against a stop, and pushing the lever right simply released the changer finger so that string tension let the string lower. So the "D" lever was put on RKR. And the "F" lever, which simply pulled the finger to raise the E strings was put on LKL, where it worked well with the A pedal.

And those were the typical 2 levers on many early 3x2 pedal steels. It was all so simple that it even worked like this on cheap "coat hanger" models, like the old Sho-Bud Maverick I started on. With modern pedal steels we no longer have these limitations, and if you don't find anything to do with the C# lower, get creative and do something else with that lever, or put the C# lower on another pedal or lever. Also, you can now switch levers around anywhere, so the D and F levers can be on any knee going any direction.

P.S. I'm just guessing about all that history stuff, maybe some of the gurus who were in the know back when can confirm or correct it. But the important thing is that there are some remnants of the standard copedent left over from earlier mechanical limitations, and these can easily be changed now.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 28 September 2003 at 10:43 AM.]

This example is in Bb, all on the 13th fret.

• Pick strings 4 and 5 with AB down,
  
• Release A, play string 6,
  
• pick string 8
  
• then pick string 9
  
• lower string 9 while reapplying the A pedal.
  

1. As an ending chord, engage RKR making C#'s on string 2 and 9; PLUS add just the B pedal.

2. Begin strumming with the 9th string and walk up each string letting them all sustain, EVEN including the first string.

You have a full A6th chord with a suspended 9th. Great ending chord. The position (spelling) of the 9th tone (5th string B note) really embelishes the ending of certain songs.

3. Pick string 5, 6 and 9 with the knee lever engaged. It gives you a great C6 sound that is used often in western swing music.

Try it, you may just lack it.

Several options..when resolving a chord with the AB Pedals..obviously use the 9th string lower to go down to the resolve note, rather than up to the resolve note with the 10th string A pedal..
Try this ..Peds A+B...resolve with the 9th string lower, release pedal A , play the 10th string then press pedal A..this gives you 3 notes on the resolve, 1 above, 1 under and the natural resolve note.

very similar to Joey's file above, but taken off the 10th string rather than 6..

1..9th string no lever
2-9th string with the lever
3-10th string no pedal
4-10th string with pedal A

just another choice..of many..

tp

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 September 2003 at 02:23 PM.]

Just try playing 9,6,5 &4 with B & C pedals depressed, let the pedals off as you lower the 9th string - then slide down two frets, then three, as you let off the 9th lower and re-engage B & C.

That's just a starting point, but listen to that lovely timbre and the voicings you can get - it opens up the tuning a lot, in my view. I wouldn't be without it, and respectfully suggest that anyone thinks hard before taking it off their guitar.

I use it in 'Hill Street Blues' (among other things), by the way.

RR

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 28 September 2003 at 07:08 PM.]

C Major pentatonic scale positions
(also Am pentatonic scale)
F#---1------3-------8-------------
Eb---1LL----3LL-----8LL-----------
G#---1------3B------8-------------
E ---1L-----3-------8-------------
B ---1------3-------8-------------
G#---1------3B------8-------------
F#---1------3-------8-------------
E ---1L-----3-------8-------------
D ---1L-----3L------8L------------
B ---1------3-------8-------------
    
 Chords
    Cmaj7   C7    C6    C7  Am7
F#--------------------------------
Eb--------------------------------
G#--------------------------------
E --------------------------------
B ---10A----11----10----8----8----
G#---10B----11----10B---8----8----
F#---10-----------10--------------
E ----------11R---------8----8----
D ---10-----11L---10----8----8L---
B --------------------------------
 
 
    A7  C#dim  F9  F9 Cm6(F9) Gadd9
F#--------------------------------
Eb--------------------------------
G#--------------------------------
E --------------------------------
B ---8----8----8---7a---10----10--
G#---8----8----8L--7----10B---10B-
F#--------------------------------
E ---8R---8R---8---7R---10R---10--
D ---8L---8----8L--7----10----10L-
B --------------------------------

A lot of how much one can get out of the D-C# lower depends on which raise/lower can be used together with it. Always see a knee lever in conjunction w what knee-levers are on the opposite knee.

The D-C# on 9th string is a "must have" IMO

Bengt Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 29 September 2003 at 08:33 AM.]

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

quote:

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"Well there's some real nice ideas here...."

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Thanks folks!

quote:

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(...) The chords (in the song: "There's So Many Ways To Say Goodbye" with Ray Pennington) are turnaround chords as in The Nightlife. My pedals A & B are (A = B to C#) and (B = G# to A).
I don't recall the first chord position, but it was probably fret 8 or root position.
The second chord (Eb 13th) is at fret 11 with the pedal A down and playing strings 5, 6, and 9.
The third (Ab Maj 7), is at fret 6 with A & B down and strings 5,6, and 9. I played the chord first and added a melody line with the 1st and 4th strings.
The fourth chord (G7 aug) is at fret 3, using strings 4, 5,6, and 9 with a A half pedal.
For the final chord (C), stay at fret 3 and let the same strings sustain as you release the half pedal and engage the knee lever that lowers the D or 9th string, 1/2 tone. The chord resolves from the G7 augmented to a C add 9 chord and may be my pick of the litter for absolute brilliance.

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Anybody disagree?

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '76 Emmons D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 03 October 2003 at 04:56 PM.]

    LKL2                   RKR
F#
D#   D                      C#
G#
E
B
G#
F#
E
B    D                      C#
G#   B
E
B

Say you are holding a V chord playing 5, 6 and 8. As the strings sustain, pick string 9 as you engage RKR, immediately followed by LKL2. This took you from a V chord; to a passing 6th chord; to the V7 chord. I use this movement a lot. I call it "raising" into the 7th. It is just the opposite from the following:

            LKR                       RKR2
F#
D#
G#
E            Eb                        (E)
B
G#
F#
E            Eb                         D
B
G#
E
B

As above while letting strings 5, 6 and 8 sustain, engage LKR; followed immediately with RKR2. It takes you from a V chord; to a passing minor chord; to the V7 chord. Only, unlike the above, you are "lowering" into the 7th.

I find that having both movments allows me to get what music does naturally all the time.

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

quote:

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"wonder why I didn't get all this when I asked this question last week?"

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You're a VIP too.

Given his occupation, I get nervous whenever my buddy John talks about digging things up.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 02 June 2004 at 09:17 AM.]

Like Mr. Bovine I think of the D lower as a way to get a low C# without raising the 5th string. I use it for C6 on E9 stuff. Check out how Tommy White uses the change, he gets some very modern sounds.

Wow, lots of cool ideas here.

Oh yeah, nice meeting you at the Grand Rapids show.

cheers,
Drew

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Drew's Website

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 02 June 2004 at 08:52 AM.]

Joey, I'll be lookin fer it in 2005.

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.