|
Author
|
Topic: Source for rod stock????
|
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
|
posted 28 September 2003 12:29 PM
profile
Need some rod stock to add some pulls to an MSA Classic. Got plenty of bellcranks and inserts.Where do you guys buy rod stock at a good price. I was thinking of maybe checking some welding shops or welding supply houses. Hardware/hobby shop prices are pretty steep. Is this 1/8" stainless steel??? What would a good price be on this Thanks. |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
|
posted 28 September 2003 12:48 PM
profile
Various sizes have been used on different guitars.Emmons P/P--1/8" Emmons LeGrande--7/64" Sho Buds--1/8" (I think) Sierras--3/32" (I think) Excel SuperB models 2.5MM (between 3/32" and 7/64") I have been trying to purchase some 7/64" SS steel rod and have totally struck out. I have called firms all over the US and NO body will sell them to me without my committing to 100's of dollars in a minimum order. I could get the 7/64" rods from Emmons, but they are not stainless steel. And I believe that much of the change in tuning problems on my LeGrande is due to those rods' specific metallic composition. I could be wrong of course, but I will believe this until I have found that size in 7/64" and give it a test run. Good luck, carl |
George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
|
posted 28 September 2003 01:02 PM
profile
Yep, Bill, welding supply stores should have what you need. Just ask for bare metal stainless rods in the diameter you need. They are 36" long. They are sold by the lb., but it doesn't take many to make a pound, so you won't have to buy too many. |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
|
posted 28 September 2003 02:05 PM
profile
According to McMaster Carr catalog, the 3" long 1/8" rods are either 10 or 12 rods per pound... |
Doug Seymour
Member From: Jamestown NY USA
|
posted 28 September 2003 02:06 PM
profile
I always could get rods for any steel I ever had at the local welding supply shop. Aluminum for my older Zum, stainless for my Excel and there have been others, too. I always could make my own rods as I found I needed them for whatever silly ideas I came up with! |
Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
|
posted 28 September 2003 05:39 PM
profile
Bill,
Welding supply,take a sample(old rod) with you. The threading die for the small...4-40 thread is quite expensive.You may do better to cut the rods you need and get a machine shop to thread one end for you ,also you may want to cut them a little long,just in case...1/2" or 1".Bill ------------------
Bill Ford[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 28 September 2003 at 05:40 PM.] |
Ernest Cawby
Member From: Lake City, Florida, USA
|
posted 01 October 2003 10:01 PM
profile
Hobby shops have spring steel rods.They are very strongernie |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
|
posted 01 October 2003 10:07 PM
profile
I have a large supply of 1/8" stainless rod
that I sell as many or as few as you want for $1.50 each + mailing cost or $2.00 each
full length with one end drilled for push pull guitar.
Jerry |
John Fabian
Member From: Mesquite, Texas USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 02:34 AM
profile
MSA rods were 1/8" and the threading die used for MSA's should be 5-40 not 4-40.We use welding rod for older MSA's and it works fine. Try your local automotive parts store for the die. John Fabian[This message was edited by John Fabian on 02 October 2003 at 02:36 AM.] |
Michael Brebes
Member From: Northridge CA
|
posted 02 October 2003 07:10 AM
profile
When you're cutting the threads, make sure to use some light oil or WD40 on the die and rod. It makes cutting much easier and won't wear out the die so fast. The stainless steel rod is pretty hard. I bought my 1/8" rod from a metal supply shop. Was able to find the die at a tool supply. If you have problems finding the die you might try McMaster Carr. |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 08:03 AM
profile
John's right about MSA threads being 5-40, however it is very difficult to put that thread on an 1/8" rod by hand. If you plan to do a whole guitar's worth, I'd get a machine shop to do it for you. If you're only doing a few rods, thread them with 6-32 instead, it's much easier to thread by hand. The nylon tuning nuts will thread themselves when screwed on, and the difference in the amount of travel per turn is hardly noticable. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 11:50 AM
profile
[quote}thread them with 6-32 instead, it's much easier to thread by hand. [/quote]Why? |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 12:05 PM
profile
A 6-32 thread has a bigger diameter and thus doesn't require cutting as much metal from the 1/8" rod, yet still creates enough thread for the tuning nuts. |
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 01:27 PM
profile
Went to buy a tag for my car today and there was a Holox welding supply place next door. Went in and bought a couple of pounds of stainless 309 rod. Looks like the thread size on the MSA is 6/32. Got a couple of those in my tap/die box. Done deal! |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 03:45 PM
profile
The late Ron Lashley told me that it was best to use a 5-40 thread on an 1/8" rod because it was too hard to cuta 4-40 on this size rod. He further said this is one of the reasons he used a 7/64" on the LeGrandes' rods so he could use a 4-40 thread. The other reason was to get more holes on the bellcranks. I sure wish I could find some 7/64" SS rods. If ANY one knows where I might purchase them at a reasonable cost, please let me know. Welding shops look at me with a jaundiced eye when I tell them what I am looking for. carl |
GaryL
Member From: Medina, OH USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 05:03 PM
profile
I have a LeGrande from the late '80's. Later models use thinner pull rods. As I don't have a micrometer handy, does anyone know the diameter used in the older LeGrandes? |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
|
posted 02 October 2003 07:02 PM
profile
I imagine it is a 3/32". Not positive, but that seems to be recallin in my memory cells. What's left of them  carl |
Michael Brebes
Member From: Northridge CA
|
posted 03 October 2003 07:16 AM
profile
The main reasons for NOT using 6-32 thread are, first, you don't have as many threads per inch so tuning precision isn't as good, and second (if I remember correctly), the die doesn't cut full-depth threads into the metal so you don't have sharp edges on the rod threads which doesn't cut well into the nylon nut. If you clamp the rods in a vise, or atleast vise-grips, and use something for cutting oil, you should be able to cut the 5-40 threads without great difficulty. |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
|
posted 03 October 2003 07:22 AM
profile
mega dittos Michael,Well said, carl |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
|
posted 03 October 2003 07:36 AM
profile
Not to be argumentative, but if you can cut 5-40 threads on 1/8" stainless by hand, you're a better man than me.  Maybe it was the grade of stainless steel Dekley used for our rods, but we always had a machine shop thread ours. We didn't have a lathe, and every time I tried to thread one by hand, on a machinist's vise with cutting oil and a die holder, I ended up with mush.  We ended up keeping a stock of long threaded rods so I could cut the unthreaded ends off for custom lengths. For 6-32 threads, you're talking 1/32" per turn vs. 1/40", hardly noticeable. Since the rod cuts it's own threads into the nylon, whatever thread is there will be snug in the nylon. I've never had any trouble with 6-32 threads slipping. I have had 5-40 threads get loose over time though. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
|
posted 11 October 2003 03:12 PM
profile
Carl...how much of that 7/64" stainless rod do you need? I may have a few pieces lying around the shop! |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
|
posted 11 October 2003 09:25 PM
profile
quote:
Not to be argumentative, but if you can cut 5-40 threads on 1/8" stainless by hand, you're a better man than me.
Jim, grind or cut a taper or a long point (3/16" - 5/16") on the end of the rod as a starter. Also check the diameter of the rod with a caliper to make sure that it's .125 (#5) even though the die will cut a larger diameter. Check the alloy of the rod, 303 stainless will cut a lot easier than 304 or the higher alloys, including welding rod which could be 308, 316 or higher. Be sure that you are using high speed steel taps and not carbon steel taps and a good cutting fluid.
quote:
The late Ron Lashley told me that it was best to use a 5-40 thread on an 1/8" rod because it was too hard to cuta 4-40 on this size rod. He further said this is one of the reasons he used a 7/64" on the LeGrandes' rods so he could use a 4-40 thread. The other reason was to get more holes on the bellcranks. I sure wish I could find some 7/64" SS rods.
5-40 is for screw size .125" ; 4-40 is screw size .112"; 6-32 is for screw size .138". 7/64" is .1093". If you really have to have 7/64", or perhaps rod size #33 (.112") or #34 (.110) or #35 (.108), you could get drill rod stock, which is easy to machine since it hasn't been hardened yet (and don't need to be for this app), and then after cutting the threads, take them down to the local plater and have them flashed with copper (to keep them from rusting), or your favorite color. McMaster-Carr has these sizes and they're a little more than a buck a piece for a 36" length.
|
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
|
posted 11 October 2003 09:29 PM
profile
quote:
Not to be argumentative, but if you can cut 5-40 threads on 1/8" stainless by hand, you're a better man than me.
Jim, grind or cut a taper or a long point (3/16" - 5/16") on the end of the rod as a starter. Also check the diameter of the rod with a caliper to make sure that it's .125 (#5) even though the die will cut a larger diameter. Check the alloy of the rod, 303 stainless will cut a lot easier than 304 or the higher alloys, including welding rod which could be 308, 316 or higher. Be sure that you are using high speed steel taps and not carbon steel taps and a good cutting fluid.
quote:
The late Ron Lashley told me that it was best to use a 5-40 thread on an 1/8" rod because it was too hard to cuta 4-40 on this size rod. He further said this is one of the reasons he used a 7/64" on the LeGrandes' rods so he could use a 4-40 thread. The other reason was to get more holes on the bellcranks. I sure wish I could find some 7/64" SS rods.
5-40 is screw size .125" ; 4-40 is screw size .112"; 6-32 is for screw size .138". 7/64" is .1093". If you really have to have 7/64", or perhaps rod size (rod size numbers and screw size numbers are not the same) #33 (.112") or #34 (.110) or #35 (.108), you could get drill rod stock, which is easy to machine since it hasn't been hardened yet (and doesn't need to be for this app), and then after cutting the threads, take them down to the local plater and have them flashed with copper (to keep them from rusting), or your favorite color. McMaster-Carr has these sizes and they're a little more than a buck a piece for a 36" length.
|
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
|
posted 11 October 2003 09:30 PM
profile
quote:
Not to be argumentative, but if you can cut 5-40 threads on 1/8" stainless by hand, you're a better man than me.
Jim, grind or cut a taper or a long point (3/16" - 5/16") on the end of the rod as a starter (you can grind off the excess after you've cut the threads). Also check the diameter of the rod with a caliper to make sure that it's .125 (#5) even though the die will cut a larger diameter. Check the alloy of the rod, 303 stainless will cut a lot easier than 304 or the higher alloys, including welding rod which could be 308, 316 or higher. Be sure that you are using high speed steel taps and not carbon steel taps and a good cutting fluid.
quote:
The late Ron Lashley told me that it was best to use a 5-40 thread on an 1/8" rod because it was too hard to cuta 4-40 on this size rod. He further said this is one of the reasons he used a 7/64" on the LeGrandes' rods so he could use a 4-40 thread. The other reason was to get more holes on the bellcranks. I sure wish I could find some 7/64" SS rods.
5-40 is screw size .125" ; 4-40 is screw size .112"; 6-32 is for screw size .138". 7/64" is .1093". If you really have to have 7/64", or perhaps rod size (rod size numbers and screw size numbers are not the same) #33 (.112") or #34 (.110) or #35 (.108), you could get drill rod stock, which is easy to machine since it hasn't been hardened yet (and doesn't need to be for this app), and then after cutting the threads, take them down to the local plater and have them flashed with copper (to keep them from rusting), or your favorite color. McMaster-Carr has these sizes and they're a little more than a buck a piece for a 36" length.
|
The Steel Guitar Forum
