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Author
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Topic: My New Zumsteel
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Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 14 October 2003 07:46 AM
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I've got to brag a little on Bruce Zumsteg. As some of you know, I fell in love with an old push-pull that Bobby Bowman re-built for me. I've played a Zum for 24 years, and consider Bruce to be one of my best friends, and the builder of the finest guitar on the market. So when he said he had some new ideas for a guitar he wanted me to try, with no obligations, I was eager to see what he had come up with. I set up my '67 Emmons in his shop, and played it for 3 days along with the new guitar he built. We've all heard the phrase, "It sounds just like a push-pull", yea right! Well, this time it's for real. He's done it! This guitar has every characteristic of tone, that my ears can hear, that is in that old push-pull, including those "growling overtones." If anything, I can hear more of them, and it has better sustain. Then of course, it plays like a Zum, and stays in tune. We decided on 17.5k True Tones from Jerry Wallace after a fair amount of experimenting. If it sounds like I'm excited about this guitar, you're right. As far as Bruce's "no obligation" comment, I was only too happy to buy this guitar. |
Roger Crawford
Member From: Locust Grove, GA USA
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posted 14 October 2003 09:26 AM
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Randy...hope you're coming to Saluda with this little darlin'! |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 14 October 2003 10:29 AM
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So what did he do different? I mean what did he change to get the PP sound and sustain? Will this now be avalable to the general public? Regards bb |
Jim Whitaker
Member From: Hamilton, Ohio, USA
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posted 14 October 2003 12:10 PM
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I heard this steel in Dayton Ohio last Sunday. Just let me say that Randy is a monster player. He sat between Russ Hicks & Jerry Brightman & there wasn't a backseat to be had. His tone was excellent & then some.
I overheard him talking of some things that bruce is doing to enhance the tone on his steels but couldn't make out exactly what it was. He is not kidding about this steel because the tone was to die for.
Randy if you read this I just want to say you are one of my favorite players (The first time I heard you was at Chubbys) & I think you play a hell of a steel for a drywaller.Ps. I was the guy in the front row that Russ said looked like someone you two knew. ------------------
JIM
"Carter SD10" "74" LTD & NASHVILLE 400, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz [This message was edited by Jim Whitaker on 15 October 2003 at 11:37 AM.]
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Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 14 October 2003 12:12 PM
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Hi Roger. I won't be able to make the next Saluda show. I'm going to New York the week before and will be vacationing in the north east. I do plan on making the next show in Feb.Bobby, yes this will be available sometime after the first of the year. This guitar is a proto-type. As far as to what all is different about it? There are several small things, but I believe the changer is the key. You have to tune it like a push-pull. Pedals down, tune it at the keyhead, let off the pedals and tune the open tuning at the endplate. Still, it has triple raise and triple lower with tunable splits. |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 14 October 2003 12:33 PM
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Still, it has triple raise and triple lower with tunable splits.   If this wasn't Randy Beavers talking I would write this off as Bull.But Randy knows tone.Thanks Randy.This sounds real interesting.-----bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 14 October 2003 at 12:43 PM.] |
Reggie Duncan
Member From: Mississippi
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posted 14 October 2003 12:52 PM
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I'm interested. |
Bob Watson
Member From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
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posted 14 October 2003 05:08 PM
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I also got to hear Randy play this guitar at the Chubby Howard jam in Dayton Ohio last week and the tone was excellent. He played it through a Webb amp for his part of the show and then through a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212 later on in the evening. It sounded great both times! |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 14 October 2003 06:00 PM
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I'd definitely like to see pictures of the changer of your new Zum, it sounds very interesting!  |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 14 October 2003 08:21 PM
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Hi Randy, does this mean that ole' Push/Pull
might be for sale? If so, did I speak first?
Jerry |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 14 October 2003 09:29 PM
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Jerry,
No way I'm selling the push-pull! I feel like I've got the best of the old, and the best of the new. |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 14 October 2003 10:01 PM
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OK Randy, actually I am really glad to hear that you like your push pull well enough that you are going to keep it. I just had to know. 
Your friend, for sure!
Jerry |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 15 October 2003 06:20 AM
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No problem Jerry. I knew you were messin' with me. If I were to consider selling it, but I won't, Bobby Bowman put in dibbs for it before I even heard it. Judy said last night if something were to happen to me, half the Forum would be trying to marry her just to get my guitars. Jim S.
As to pictures of the changer? You'll need to talk to Bruce. |
Jay Ganz
Member From: Out Behind The Barn
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posted 15 October 2003 07:11 AM
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You're doing the PSGA show next month, right?
Which steel are you gonna use? |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 15 October 2003 08:59 AM
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Okay folks, the cat is out of the bag. I promised Randy that I wouldn't sat anything until he wanted it known. For anyone with ears this is going to be a revolutionary breakthrough. I believe that Bruce Zumsteg has done it. Bruce has apparently found a way to add back the growling overtones of a push/pull into his Zum guitars. Its there. I heard it loud and clear at the NTSGA jam. Randy described it perfectly. Bravo Bruce!!
This isn't such great news for people who want to buy. We're probably going to have to wait at least a year now for a Zum guitar. It sounds fantastic. Bruce put some more people on!!!! We're a comin!!!! |
Roger Shackelton
Member From: Everett, Wa.
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posted 15 October 2003 10:24 AM
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Will this new ZUM guitar be the "ZUMMONS" model? Roger |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 15 October 2003 10:50 AM
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Jay,
I'll be bringing the Zum.Roger,
Since this guitar is kind of a "hybrid", Bruce went to a synonym website and entered the word hybrid to see what it came up with. All that came up was "mongrel." So that's what I'm calling it. By the way, does anyone know another word for synonym? |
Roger Osbourn
Member From: Siloam Springs, Arkansas, USA
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posted 15 October 2003 10:54 AM
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Hey Randy;E-mail me some pictures of Judy just in case.I got my Rocky Caple,Sawed Off Shotgun,45 rpm record matted and framed,hanging in my music room.Thanks for your help in getting it autographed.It will always be a priceless treasure to me.Oh and I hope we both live to be a hundred.------------------
Roger Osbourn (President NEOSGA)2003 MSA Millennium, (2) Peavey Nashville 1000s, Hilton pedal, Steelers Choice seat.
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Tony Rankin
Member From: Miamisburg, OH USA
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posted 15 October 2003 01:29 PM
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If any builder can replicate the revered push-pull tone, it without a doubt will be Bruce Zumsteg. Bruce is a true craftsman and all of the guitars he builds are representative of the best currently available in terms of design, playability and quality, not to mention that they also sound great. I too, have personally heard Randy's new guitar (at Chubby Howard's show)and it does in fact sound fantastic. Of course, it did not hurt that Randy was the one playing it.
Randy, when you were visiting with Bruce, did you by chance get a peek at the sunburst lacquer SD-10 he is building for me? I am really looking forward to seeing it and I should be getting it in a week or so.
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Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 15 October 2003 01:43 PM
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Tony:
Yes I did see your guitar. It is absolutely gorgeous. If I remember right, Bruce showed me your guitar before I saw mine. Its probably the best looking sunburst I've ever seen.[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 15 October 2003 at 03:40 PM.] |
Eddie Malray
Member From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA
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posted 15 October 2003 01:58 PM
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I read countless post where someone has a new guitar that has "That PP Sound" but plays easier and stays in tune better. But, they won,t sell their old Emmons PP. Why is that?-----------Eddie |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 15 October 2003 02:16 PM
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Eddie, I feel very fortunate that I don't have to. 
[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 15 October 2003 at 07:55 PM.]
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Tony Rankin
Member From: Miamisburg, OH USA
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posted 15 October 2003 02:53 PM
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Randy,Thanks for the reply. I spoke with Bruce on the telephone Monday and he told me it would take my breath away. Since Bruce is not prone to stretching the truth, I am considering having paramedics standing by. Thanks again and keep us posted on your new "mongrel". Tony |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 15 October 2003 05:20 PM
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Eddie,old push-pull Emmons guitars have something magic about them.It is like driving a 68 Corvete ,you can buy a brand new one but it will never had the feeling and magic of the old one.Only original push pull has that magic and history behind it.We can buy the newest modern pedal steels that "they" say sound like the old push pull but what is the point?Why not get an original Emmons p/p and have the real thing insted of copy that sounds "almost" as original.All that tuning nightmare and stiff pedals are the part of the charm of the old Emmons p/p and all that together gives the sound to guitar.Everybody keeps their old push pulls because they are "THE" real thing and they will always be.The new guitars are ,no doubt,faster and easier to play but they don`t have the carisma of the old Emmons push pull guitars.And why trying to copy Emmons tone?I love it don`t get me wrong,but I think that every guitar should have it`s destinctive and original tone itself and not trying to copy other guitars,wich is btw. hopeless ,they can come as close as they want but no other guitar will ever had better "Emmons" tone than Emmons itself.------------------
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Eddie Malray
Member From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA
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posted 15 October 2003 06:56 PM
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RANDY AND DAMIR: I was just making a little joke. I've had a PP for over 23 years. I.ve tried others along the way but would never part with the PP. Randy, you don"t know me but I know who you are and have heard you play. You could make a "Little Buddy" sound good. Thats a beautiful Zum and I wish you many happy days with it.---------Eddie |
Jerry Fleming
Member From: Moneta, Virginia, USA
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posted 15 October 2003 06:58 PM
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I guess I will chime with my 2 cents worth. I had the pleasure of hearing Randy play his 67 Emmons not long ago in Wilson and I will have to say he got the best tone out of it I ever heard. Well, this past weekend I got to see and hear Randy play his new Zum. I was blown away! For the record I just got my first Push Pull Emmons and I love it! Everything that people say about Emmons push pull guitars is true. ( except the Black Formica theory) LOL They just have a great sound. That said, I think Bruce has found the magic and is on to something great! In my opinion Randy's new Zum has a killer sound every bit as sweet as the Emmons. I know the die hard Emmons guys will say "yea but it is not an Emmons" Who cares! it is a great sounding guitar that I would be proud to own! Randy always sounds good on anything he plays. The very first time I heard Randy play he was playing a Sierra at Jeff Newmans June jam during sound check and warming up. He made a lasting impression on me. Not only is he a great player he is a very nice guy. Randy I know you are proud of your new Zum guitar and rightly so. I think it sounded awesome Sat. and you can make it sing! All The Best to you and Judy, Jerry |
Bruce Hamilton
Member From: Vancouver BC Canada
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posted 16 October 2003 06:19 AM
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Randy just so I got this straight - are there individual nylon tuners for each pull at the endplate or are there halftone tuners under the guitar? Ever since you began this thread I have been trying to visualize how this would work. Its sure got me baffled.
Thanks |
chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 16 October 2003 10:44 AM
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.....now who will be the first to make a new steel that sounds like a ZB? |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 16 October 2003 11:02 AM
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Bruce,
It had me scratching my head also. Even with a working model in my hand it took a little bit to figure it out. There are no half tone tuners under the guitar. Everything except the dominant raise tunes with nylon tuners at the endplate. The raise that pulls the farthest, you tune at the keyhead with the pedal down, and then tune the open tuning at the endplate with an allen screw. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 16 October 2003 11:04 AM
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quote:
.....now who will be the first to make a new steel that sounds like a ZB?
Or a pedalsteel that the tonal presence of an old Stringmaster or Ricky bakelite ! Bob [This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 16 October 2003 at 11:06 AM.] |
Frank Estes
Member From: Huntsville, AL
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posted 16 October 2003 12:01 PM
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Maybe Bruce could name his new system the "Bruce Contact Technology!" ------------------
Frank Estes - 1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D
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Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 16 October 2003 12:15 PM
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Damir, as a friendly discussion I would like to address some of your points and questions."Why not get an original Emmons p/p and have the real thing insted of copy that sounds 'almost' as original." First is product and consumer support. I just went through the process of obtaining parts for an original p-p. Not an easy task. You have to have alot of the parts made, that can get expensive. The p-p hasn't been built for 20 years. I collected parts from North Carolina to Texas and several states in between. Second, Set-up changes. Everyone will agree that an all-pull guitar is easier to make changes on. Third, don't judge this guitar as being "almost" until you have played it. "All that tuning nightmare and stiff pedals are the part of the charm of the old Emmons p/p and all that together gives the sound to guitar." You may need to get your guitar checked out. My '67 plays as easy as an all-pull guitar, and it stays in tune. "Everybody keeps their old push pulls because they are "THE" real thing and they will always be." Exactly, they are a part of our history, a classic. Still, a soundpost by which most are measured. "And why trying to copy Emmons tone?I love it don`t get me wrong,but I think that every guitar should have it`s destinctive and original tone itself and not trying to copy other guitars,wich is btw. hopeless ,they can come as close as they want but no other guitar will ever had better 'Emmons' tone than Emmons itself." What is "Emmons" tone? Define it. Is it what Buddy got on the "Black" album? If that is so, Hal Rugg, John Hughey, Weldon Myrick, Sonny Garrish, Jimmy Crawford, and Doug Jernigan didn't get it while playing a push-pull. They all sounded unique. A great guitar lets you sound like who you are. It doesn't keep your sound in a "stereotyped box." To me, what made the push-pull unique was the eveness in string volume from the 1st to the 10th string, how the tone and sustain didn't change when you played above the 12th fret. A general summation would be the way the guitar responded to whatever you did. What it makes you feel like when you play it. All these characteristics are what are desirable in any guitar, and is what everyone is trying to achieve. What Bruce has done may be the most revolutionary improvement in steel guitars since MSA came out with the nylon tuners on their changer. I don't think it should be diminished. And I know there is a market for it. Is it for everyone? No. Not everyone will want to tune like this, backwards to them. There are overtones that some people may not find desirable, and will have a hard time with while tuning. I started this thread because the "toothpaste is out of the tube", so to speak, and it's real hard to get it back in. I've played this guitar on three steel shows, and it's been noticed. I feel the Forum is for the exchange of information, and this is something new I believe people would like to know about.[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 16 October 2003 at 03:38 PM.] |
Jim Cohen
Member From: Philadelphia, PA
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posted 16 October 2003 12:21 PM
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Hi Randy,
I'm eager to meet your new guitar.
See you at PSGA,
Jim |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 16 October 2003 12:23 PM
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quote:
A great guitar lets you sound like who you are.
Excellant observation Randy! If a guitar doesn't produce the sound you want to hear, no amount of convincing by anyone is going to make you happy with its sound.  [This message was edited by Jim Smith on 16 October 2003 at 12:24 PM.] |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 16 October 2003 05:49 PM
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Well,I didn`t wont to sound negative or nothing like that,Randy,I`m sure your Zum is a great instrument,I`m just kind of geting tired of people trying to compare every guitar to Emmons push pull.Why?Leave it alone and get the guitar you like.Every guitar should sound different,every guitar should have its own "THAT" tone so different people with different taste for "THAT" tone can buy what makes them happy.I love old Emmons, I just hate its mechanics (btw.every p/p I bought was set up and restored to perfection,but p/p has a stiffer pedal action and everyone who has one knows that,nothing like Sho~Bud or Mullen) and also, I played few Zum guitars and didn`t like them.Other people love them and thats cool,but I really don`t care what other people like if I`m spending my money to buy it.I also don`t wont to preach about "THAT" Emmons tone,I`m tired of that too,people should play whatever they like and let other people play what they like,at least that is the way I think.I personaly love push pull,but I think that would be desisster if every guitar would sound the same.And at the end,push pull has it`s own sound no matter if Buddy plays it or not.Buddy would sound like Buddy on any guitar he plays.He is the best living steel player on the world after all.Him and Lloyd and imagine what,Lloyd doesn`t even play an Emmons.btw,I didn`t have a chanse to play the "NEW" Zum,if I do one day, I may love it and buy it myself,why not.I don`t wont to live in the box.
Define the Emmons tone? Plug any push pull (ANY) in the good steel amp and you`ll hear it.You don`t even have to play it,just strum accross the strings.
and the most interesting thing is that I don`t even have an Emmons,I`m playing a Sho~Bud... ------------------
[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 October 2003 at 05:57 PM.] [This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 October 2003 at 05:59 PM.] |
Jerry Fleming
Member From: Moneta, Virginia, USA
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posted 16 October 2003 06:11 PM
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IMHO We need to step back and give credit where credit is due. Bruce has made a major break through with this new guitar. I think it is very exciting! I really checked out the mechanics of the changer and tuning. I could not get over the acoustic coupling and overtones. I am not an expert by any means but I was very impressed with the mechanics and sound. I recorded Randy's set Sat. night and I can tell you his tone was impeccable. His chord voicing really shows just how well balanced this guitar is. It is a keeper! Randy you sounded great my friend! Enjoy your new guitar and I hope you enjoy the CD as much as I have. Jerry |
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
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posted 16 October 2003 06:43 PM
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What a wonderful example of how hard headed and persnickity steel players are. Zum gets close to the Holy Grail of Steel sounds and some players can't/won't believe it.
You guys ought to be jumping up and down that a builder is actually putting in some R@D on the steel and trying to improve the instrument. It's done in the underarm guitar world all the time and welcomed by players. |
Randy Beavers
Member From: Lebanon,TN 37090
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posted 17 October 2003 05:33 AM
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Something of significance I forgot to mention. Cabinet drop. The 4th string, E, on the E9th neck has 1.6 cents of drop with A & B pedals pushed. The 6th string has 1.3 cents of drop with A pedal pushed. These measurements were taken with my Peterson V-Sam strobe tuner. |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 17 October 2003 07:19 AM
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Bill, I agree. Bruce Zumsteg was smart enough to find a way to add the growling overtones back into his guitars. Its what I feel most guitars that are being made today are missing. They are too sterile sounding. Guys, if you have ears that can recognize these overtones you will here them immediately in Zums new design. |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 17 October 2003 06:23 PM
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is there a web site for the Zum guitars?I would like to know more about the new technology used on them.------------------
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