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Author
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Topic: My current E9th/Sacred Steel hybred tuning
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Dan Tyack
Member From: Seattle, WA USA
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posted 15 December 2003 02:06 PM
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I have been working with a tuning similar to one which b0b proposed which combines the Sacred Steel with a standard E9th. Here's my current incarnation, which I believe is a keeper for me. The main difference between this and b0b's is that the 7th string is the same as the standard E9th, with a knee lever lowering it to give the unison E strings on 7 and 8, rather than tuning to the unison Es. Note that this is really just a standard E9th tuning, with the elimination of the 9th string D and the addition of a low E.
LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 RKL RKR
F# ++G#
D# -D--C# +E
G# +A
E +F ++F# -D#
B -Bb ++C# ++C# --A
G# +A --F#
F# --E
E +F -D -D#
B -Bb ++C# --A
E
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www.tyack.com
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Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 15 December 2003 05:55 PM
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Very similar to the E9 component of my 12-string universal. Just missing the G# on my string 10 and B on the bottom. Most of the pedal changes are the same on my S-12 guitars.------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 15 December 2003 08:28 PM
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Actually, I made the same change about a year ago, Dan. Here's what I have on my D-10 now: LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 RKL RKR
F#
D# -C# -D
G# +A -G
E +F +F# -D#
B +C# +C#
G# +A -G
F# -E +G#
E +F -D# -D
B +C# -A
E -C# I hold in LKR to get the rhythm strum effect. Works real well.------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 15 December 2003 09:12 PM
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I like the looks of both those tunings. A question for b0b, though: how do you use that first pedal?-Travis |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 15 December 2003 09:34 PM
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My first pedal F# to G# is a typical country change. IF I'm playing a C chord at the 8th fret, for example, I'll sometimes hit the 7th string instead of the 6th and then pedal the note up to get the C chord. Most people who have the change put it on a knee lever.
But then here's the neatest trick in the tuning: From that position I can release P1 while I engage LKR, lowering the note two full steps! The same trick works in reverse, of course.
I think Paul Franklin has a lever that lowers his middle G# to E. My P1-LKR trick has a similar effect.
The second string lower on P1 is unrelated. I use it the way most people use it on a lever. If you press it with the A pedal, you get a unison C# on strings 2 and 5. Then release both pedals at once to get that old "Touch My Heart" effect. ------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
Harry Williams
Member From: Duncan, Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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posted 16 December 2003 05:09 PM
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Well I don't have any change on my U-12 that lowers the 7th string F# to an E, so I just tune it down to get that unison sound when I want to strum. And it does sound nice. ------------------
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Larry Behm
Member From: Oregon City, Oregon
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posted 16 December 2003 05:47 PM
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I went to Dan's house, looked at the tuning, changed my low B to E and NEVER looked back. It felt so natural to me as I do not use my D note all that much anyway. I put the B-D on a knee and could not be happier, after 32 years of playing I am still open for some other ideas.Thanks Dan, you the man. Larry Behm |
Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 16 December 2003 08:48 PM
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quote:
Well I don't have any change on my U-12 that lowers the 7th string F# to an E
I just raise it to G#------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 17 December 2003 01:20 AM
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Thanks for the explanation, b0b--I was wondering whether or not the two pulls were used together. About the missing 'D' in this tuning, how much would you say you miss being able to have the D and the E string at the same time? It doesn't seem like THAT big a loss, but I'm curious... Also, as far as the Extended E9 goes, I really like having the G# in the bass, but it's not quite as good for strumming as the straight E-B-E. Have you thought of a good compromise which would allow you to keep the G# (which of course means keeping the low A and possibly a low G as well) but still get that nice power chord? Perhaps a lever to raise the G# to B to make E-B-B-E-E in "full strum mode?" -Travis |
Dan Tyack
Member From: Seattle, WA USA
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posted 17 December 2003 11:18 AM
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I can get a low D and E on my copedent, though I can't remember using the two together.....One thing about raising the 1st and 2nd strings along with lowering the 7th to E on my RKR: you get a vanilla major chord all the way across the neck, which can be useful for Pete Townsend moves. I personally prefer not to have the low G# in the tuning, I think it muddies up strummed chords. If I had a 12 string tuning, I would add a low B below the E like Chuck Campbell. ------------------
www.tyack.com
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 17 December 2003 11:39 AM
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quote:
...which can be useful for Pete Townsend moves
Try as I may, I can't imagine you doing the windmill on pedal steel, Dan. 
I agree that the low G# muddies up strummed chords. I actually view it as improper voicing. I don't strum low chords on my extended E9th for that very reason.
I subscribe to the theory that the lower you go, the more space you need between notes of a chord. Stacked thirds sound pretty muddy in the lower register. The lower register establishes the foundation. It doesn't need to do anything else.------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 17 December 2003 at 11:40 AM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 17 December 2003 01:03 PM
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It's not just that the low G# muddies up the sound. In blues the 3rd is sort of harmonically equivocal, you don't want to commit to either a minor 3rd or a major 3rd when you don't need to for the melody. So you get a more powerful and versatile sound with a modal power chord leaving out the 3rd. Also, this is a movable chord that sounds good as you move it up to the flatted 3rd chord 3 frets up, and then on to the IV and V chord frets. Or you can move the modal power chord two frets down from the root to the flatted 7th chord fret. But I don't try to strum those. On my uni I comp them by picking them and just skipping the 3rd.But here's what you miss without the low G# - when you hit the AB pedals that G# becomes the low root for your IV chord, either picked without the 3rd as a power chord, or not. And of course, two frets up it's the root for the V chord. On a uni you can get some great Bo Diddley stuff going on the low strings by just stomping the AB pedals (provided you put the AB pedal changes on the low strings) - very powerful. Also, on a uni (with the G# string), if you mash the AB pedals and drop down two frets from the root fret, you get the flatted 3rd chord (G in the key of E) with the G# string becoming the G root for that chord. That chord also now has the key root E on the 7th string. So you have 3 notes of the tonic chord including the flatted 7th (BDE) as well as the flatted 3rd chord notes, and you can pick chords or pentatonic runs at that position - very convenient. Also, when you hit the E lower lever, that G# string becomes the 6th or the root of that minor chord which you can get at an appropriate fret for the tonic minor, relative minor, or IIm. I am finding so many good blues positions on the uni, that I have lost some interest in the Sacred Steel tuning , which seems very limited apart from blues. But lowering the 7th string down to a unison E on a lever is very interesting, and I might try that if I can figure out what lever to put it on. I recently tried taking the 2nd and 8th strings to a D on RKR as Dan has above on LKR. But I found too many times when I wanted to get the top D in a melody, but didn't want the 8th string root to change. So I moved the 8th string D over onto LKR (works better in B6 mode there too). This leaves me something to do on the bottom strings with RKR, and maybe the 7th string lower to E would work there. Very interesting.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 17 December 2003 at 01:09 PM.] |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 17 December 2003 04:00 PM
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quote:
But here's what you miss without the low G# - when you hit the AB pedals that G# becomes the low root for your IV chord, either picked without the 3rd as a power chord, or not. And of course, two frets up it's the root for the V chord.
That's exactly why I lower the 9th string B to A on my so-called "C" pedal. Guitarists have two low "power chord" positions. Why shouldn't steel players? |
Jerry Hayes
Member From: Virginia Beach, Va.
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posted 18 December 2003 07:56 AM
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I've had that 7th string raise to G# for many years now. I got it from looking at Tom Brumley's copedant as he's used it for a long time. If you listen to Tom's playing you can hear how he uses it. One thing you can do is the intro to the Eagle's "Peaceful Easy Feeling". It's all there. I also use it along with the E lowers on 4 & 8. You can play a very cool version of "Last Date" with just that pedal and your E lowers. Basically it does in the open position what you get by rocking on and off the A pedal with the B pedal depressed........JH------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning. [This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 18 December 2003 at 07:59 AM.]
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Harry Williams
Member From: Duncan, Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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posted 18 December 2003 10:37 AM
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Jerry:
Could you provide me with a link to T. Brumley's copedant? I'm curious to know where he puts the F# - G# raise. Thanks. ------------------
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Jerry Hayes
Member From: Virginia Beach, Va.
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posted 18 December 2003 12:22 PM
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Harry,
He has it on pedal 1 which also raises string 10 to C# without raising the 5th string. That change is good for a C6th type sound playing strings 4,5, & 10 with the 10th raised. You could also lower the 9th to C# and play 4,5, and 9. He also raises the 7th and the 1st to G# on a knee lever which I think is an extra RKR or RKL I'm not sure. Have a good 'un...JH------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning. |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 23 September 2005 04:17 AM
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I like Dan's raise on the top two strings.
Makes it all make sense.I also really like my
E
B
A
E where the B's are raised by pedal C (Day setup). | |
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