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  Why do you call it "Copedent"

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Author Topic:   Why do you call it "Copedent"
Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 30 December 2003 01:05 PM     profile     
Guess I'm just a dumb ole country hick that never got to the big city. I've always referred to the pedal & knee lever arrangement on my Steel Guitars as "My Set-Up".
I never heard of a "Copedent" until 3 or 4 years ago, and then I think it was here on this Forum. Where did you guys get this word "Copedent". I didn't even know what you were talking about until I got tired of feelin stupid and asked somebody at Bobbe Seymour's shop one day.
Maybe Jeff Newman sells a Steel Guitar dictionary for people like me. I'll check and maybe order one, then I can learn to talk fancy like the rest of you guys

Nick

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 30 December 2003 at 03:05 PM.]

Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 30 December 2003 01:13 PM     profile     
Has nothing to do with Newman
Tom Bradshaw coined the term 25 or more years ago for a single word that indicates the open tuning without pedals plus all the pedal and knee lever pulls.

ChOrd PEDal arrangemENT

pronounced co - pee - dent

I never cared for the term myself but often use it for lack of a better and/or more succinct term.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Dave Burr
Member

From: Tyler, TX

posted 30 December 2003 01:47 PM     profile     
Nick,

Larry's right... As usual. Here is a previous thread were the originator (Tom Bradshaw) of the term shares in the discussion.


Respectfully,
Dave Burr

Al Marcus
Member

From: Cedar Springs,MI USA

posted 30 December 2003 02:19 PM     profile     
I usually use "tuning setup" or just plain " My tuning"....Happy New Year...al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 30 December 2003 03:20 PM     profile     
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/005642.html
Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 30 December 2003 03:33 PM     profile     
I don't care for the word myself, think I'll just stick with saying "my set-up".
Franklin
Member

From:

posted 30 December 2003 04:40 PM     profile     
I don't care for the word....I prefer Pedal set-up.
Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 30 December 2003 05:56 PM     profile     
I can't stand the word. "Set-up" works for me.
Jerry
Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 30 December 2003 06:16 PM     profile     
Well, there you have! If it's OK with Paul Franklin & Jerry Roller then it's OK with me. Nick
Dave Van Allen
Member

From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

posted 30 December 2003 06:33 PM     profile     
quote:
pronounced co - pee - dent


Beavis:"huh,huh...he said 'pee', huh,huh"
Butthead:"Yeah...'pee' yeah yeah"
I think the pronunciation has a lot to do with the lack of appeal of the coined phrase...

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 30 December 2003 at 06:33 PM.]

Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 30 December 2003 09:17 PM     profile     
No matter how it's pronounced, I don't like it. And I vote we all quit using the term. Lets start calling it "pedal set-up" like Paul Franklin. Or maybe we could compromise and call it PEE-dal Set-Up!

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 30 December 2003 at 09:20 PM.]

Ken Williams
Member

From: Arkansas

posted 30 December 2003 09:42 PM     profile     
I guess if you are like me and don't know which pedal to mash or string to play you would be incopedent.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill

CrowBear Schmitt
Member

From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

posted 31 December 2003 02:53 AM     profile     
after all that good Ol'Tom B has done for us
let's not go breakin'his heart
heck i use Copedent, i thought i was in the niche
Happy New Year
Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 31 December 2003 06:38 AM     profile     
C-B
Tom doesn't really care for the word either, as I recall.

Who cares as long as we understand what we're talking about?

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Damir Besic
Member

From: La Vergne,TN

posted 31 December 2003 06:41 AM     profile     
there you go,here is another one "mash" I can`t help myself and not to think about the mashpotatoes when someone says "I mash my pedals" it sounds kinda mushy to me...
Richard Sinkler
Member

From: Fremont, California

posted 31 December 2003 09:38 AM     profile     
I use "tuning" or "setup". When talking to a non-steeler, they can usually understand these terms better.

Damir, I hate the term "mash" also. I DO NOT mash my pedals, I USE THEM.

Maybe we can make these words go away.

Bill Bailey
Member

From: Kingman, AZ

posted 31 December 2003 10:14 PM     profile     
Tom Bradshaw is the first man to ever contact me to trying to put a list together of steel players, this was before I ever went on the road. This may have been around 1967 or 68 I think. That was the first time I saw one of his brochieres on steel. That was the first time I ever heard about copedant and at the time it made sense to me. I don't beleive I have ever been asked about my copedant unless a new comer was asking the question. I dont mind the term. I do think Tom is as valuable an assett to the steel community as anyone ever. I called him and went to visit his home when I was on the road with Rose Maddox and was treated like family. Tom seemed interested in my time with Rose and we spoke briefly about her. His in home store was loaded with a steel players treasure chest of toys. I still have some of the records. Happy new year to all of you.
Bill Bailey
C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 01 January 2004 06:37 AM     profile     
Damir,

Try out the following:

"Maysh tha petals"

carl

Franklin
Member

From:

posted 01 January 2004 06:38 AM     profile     
Richard, I'm with you. The instrument is complicated enough to explain without creating words that only a percentage of the steel community can define. Are terms like "Boo Wah" and "copedant" needed? The musical and english terms "6#9 pedal" and "pedal setup" are easily understood by all.

Theory is definately the key to communicating and arranging musical ideas. If the instruments pedals were defined by what they actually do musically, it just might help encourage our future players in the right direction---learning how music is structured, instead of learning tab only......Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 01 January 2004 at 06:43 AM.]

Dale Bessant
Member

From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada

posted 01 January 2004 08:01 AM     profile     
I used the term once to a fellow well known steel player here in Canada years ago,the late Ron Dann, he had no idea what I was talking about,so since then I have refrained from using the term "copedant"...Happy New Year to all... the term set-up seems to say it all for me....

[This message was edited by Dale Bessant on 01 January 2004 at 08:03 AM.]

[This message was edited by Dale Bessant on 01 January 2004 at 08:04 AM.]

Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 01 January 2004 10:23 AM     profile     
quote:
The musical and english terms "6#9 pedal" and "pedal setup" are easily understood by all
That would be true if those terms WERE understood by all. Fact is, the VAST majority of steel players I've met (who play C6) know EXACTLY where to find the BooWah, but have no clue how to spell a 7#9 chord -- or even how the I to VI progression is used. Sad but true.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

frank rogers
Member

From: usa

posted 01 January 2004 10:39 AM     profile     
I'm not a big fan of the term "copedent" either. But, then again, I call pedal 8 the Jimi Hendrix pedal or the "Purple Haze" pedal.

[This message was edited by frank rogers on 01 January 2004 at 12:03 PM.]

Bill Llewellyn
Member

From: San Jose, CA

posted 01 January 2004 10:45 AM     profile     

[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 02 January 2004 at 10:46 PM.]

Richard Sinkler
Member

From: Fremont, California

posted 01 January 2004 11:56 AM     profile     
Cute Bill. If you haven't done so, check out the post by Winnie Winston about his web site being up. Check out the Kline section and you will see what I was trying to explain to you on Monday.

"Boo-Wah" is another term I avoid. And even though I have this so-called Boo-Wah pedal on a knee lever, I still refer to it as pedal 8 when talking to other players.

Colm Chomicky
Member

From: Prairie Village, Kansas, USA

posted 01 January 2004 11:58 AM     profile     
Instead of asking a bartender for a "set up", try asking him for a "copedent". See what you get.

I think Commander Cody's copedent is one drink of wine, two drinks of gin, and you're lost in the ozone agin Happy New Years, everybody.

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 01 January 2004 07:26 PM     profile     
"Copedent" has precision and class. "Setup" can refer to string height and spacing, etc. But with all due respect to Tom, we don't call them "peedals," so the first e should be short. Pronounced that way, it is a nice, serious sounding word that would be good to use around other musicians, especially music school types. But with another steeler, "setup" works fine, and "copedent" sounds a little pretentious.
Herb Steiner
Member

From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX

posted 01 January 2004 09:10 PM     profile     
I have two different editions of Tom's "Chord Construction for the Pedal Guitarist," the larger one from the 60's and the smaller one from 1971. The earlier one has "cHopedent," the other has "copedent." I've never had a problem with the spelling and for some reason always pronounced the word correctly.

I approve of the term. When I'm asked about my setup, I usually respond with "a Coke back, please."

I first heard the term "mash the pedal" on the Sho~Bud instructional album that Neil Flanz recorded. Those of you who have spoken with Neil know how deliberate and well-spoken he is, with an excellent command of the language. A few years ago he told me that when he came to Nashville, steel guitars were universally referred to as "horns," and that players didn't "push/press/engage a pedal" they "mashed" it. He said the term was probably coined by Jimmy Day. At least, that's how I remember our conversation. Perhaps Neil will join in.

Franklin
Member

From:

posted 02 January 2004 07:59 AM     profile     
David,
I agree. "Setup" by itself could mean anything. When looking at a pedal steel if someone asks "What's your pedal setup?" every musician knows what is meant. If you ask "What is your copedant?" You'll probably hear, "What?" Is there any advantage to isolating our instrument from theory or the commonly spoken terms in our language, no matter how classy the word might sound.

I am coming from this perspective only because I didn't learn by tab. I learned basic theory from an Hawaiin player which has proven itself invaluable. I wish the instrument like the guitar and piano was defined mostly by theory. I hope the instrument doesn't continue being defined by tablature, but that's another debate.....Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 02 January 2004 at 08:01 AM.]

[This message was edited by Franklin on 02 January 2004 at 08:04 AM.]

[This message was edited by Franklin on 02 January 2004 at 08:06 AM.]

Rick Collins
Member

From: Claremont , CA USA

posted 02 January 2004 10:05 AM     profile     
I concur with the apparent majority this time; "copedent" just doesn't fit here. But, I do wish we could create a single word that could accurately describe pedal and lever changes on a pedal steel guitar.

It would be great if we could create a word that gives some of the pioneers of pedals immediate credit for their contribution to the instrument.

We often reference, "Emmons" or "Day" set-up to the A & B pedals. Too, I have heard the E major to A major chord change refered to as the "Isaacs" change.

I have "gnashing of teeth" when I hear "mashing pedals".

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 02 January 2004 at 03:43 PM.]

Dave Van Allen
Member

From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

posted 02 January 2004 10:37 PM     profile     
Howzabout "configuration"... works well for other technical discussion: (from dictionary.com) note particulary entry 4

quote:
conˇfigˇuˇraˇtion    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kn-fgy-rshn)
n.

1. a. Arrangement of parts or elements.
b. The form, as of a figure, determined by the arrangement of its parts or elements. See Synonyms at form.

2. Psychology. Gestalt.
3. Chemistry. The structural arrangement of atoms in a compound or molecule.
4. Computer Science.
a. The way in which a computer system is set up: changed the configuration by resetting the parameters.
b. The set of constituent components, such as memory, a hard disk, a monitor, and an operating system, that make up a computer system.
c. The way that the components of a computer network are connected.



I tend to speak of a "pedal configuration" , Day , Emmons, Franklin, whatever...

But Paul can still call it whatever he wants!!

Franklin
Member

From:

posted 03 January 2004 05:26 AM     profile     
Dave...configuration works for me. I speak poor enough english as it is. This might raise the bar for me.

....Paul

Tom Callahan
Member

From: Dunlap, Tennessee, USA

posted 03 January 2004 06:06 AM     profile     
Well after reading all this, I have decided to go along with my wife and call them "Those little floor thingies" and the "Whatcamaycallits hang down from underneath"
Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 03 January 2004 10:04 AM     profile     
Who CARES?
It's just communication. Most people don't communicate clearly as it is. Coming up with some new term or agreement among ourselves is inconsequential.

Bottom line:
Some people call it 'copedent' (or chopedent or copendent or copedant or codependent). If you understand what that means, whether you like the term or not, when someone says it, YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. 'Pedal setup' works great for me.

You know, in retrospect, other than on the Forum, the subject never really arises very often and when it does a few words of explanation suffice.

we can sure flog a dead horse to death

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

richard burton
Member

From: Britain

posted 03 January 2004 11:12 AM     profile     
I hereby declare that the configuration of a pedal steel guitar be known as 'FUNEEPED'.
Function of knees and pedals.
Roger Shackelton
Member

From: Everett, Wa.

posted 03 January 2004 11:46 AM     profile     
Thank You Larry. I Totally Agree.

quote:
----------------------------------------
"we can sure flog a dead horse to death"
----------------------------------------

Roger

Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 03 January 2004 01:30 PM     profile     
After reading all the posts above, I feel comfortable "coming out of the closet" and admittin' that to the best of my knowledge, I ain't got one of them copedent things on my guitar either ....I don't remember what Fender called it back in the dark ages, but Sho-bud called it a "Pedal Set-Up", and Carter refers to it as a "tuning chart". I've never owned an Emmons, so I don't know whether they have a copedent or not!

.....additionally, the "TAB" topic of the Forum is the only Forum section that I "never" open! All them lines and numbers don't help me to play anything...I have to hear a song at least once to get the "feel" of it before I can begin to play it.

...But if anyone is helped by either of the above, I say "go for it". This old country boy with limited comprehension skills is just speaking for himself.

Whewwww...I feel better now!
www.genejones.com

Rusty Walker
Member

From: Markham Ont. Canada

posted 03 January 2004 04:20 PM     profile     
P.F. What you say makes the most sense to me.And Neil Flanz,with all due respect(we've been buds for a million years)where DID you come up with "mash"? I remember when you were showing me how it was really done,you would use that term.Somehow it brought back memories of Mom fixin' Sunday dinner.All I can say about that is I DID make a bit of gravy from it all.If your 'puter is working,please comment.Rusty

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