I'm Victor from France, I'm 20, and would love to begin pedal steel.
They are extremely uncommon here in France so I've never even seen one. But i really love its sound. Especially on those old country rock recording by the Byrds or Flying Burrito Brothers.
I won't buyy a PS in France (way too expensive, if you can find one).

I would love to receive some advice about what model should I buy for my first PS.

I've read the Carter Starter is a good solution. What do you think about this PS ?
Or should I use my 900$ for a used model ? If so, could you advise me good brands and models ?
I'm interested too in Fender PS. The 800 seems weird to me, because it has 5 pedals and only 1 knee lever. Aren't those PS weird or special?

It is really hard to answer that question, depends on which musical direction you want to take. Starter models are one solution, but you have to keep in mind that you usually cannot add extra pedals and knee levers (as you progress you might need them or want them!)

Used steels also can be a good solution, if you buy them from one of the well-known suppliers (Scotty, Bobbe Seymour atc.) you always have a guarantee that it is a good working steel, they also inform you about the history of the instrument and are always available if you need advise or have problems). I think all the brand names out on the market today build great instruments (Carter, Zum, Mullen), also the "old" brand names Sho-Bud, Emmons, MSA are great instruments!

Personally I wouldn't buy an instrument without seeing it or trying it (ebay has good offers, but they also have ugly instruments, many times the seller is not familiar with the Steel and cannot answer questions). Keep in mind a good looking instrument might have technical defects that will lead to problems!

The "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" album had Lloyd Green and Jay Dee Maness playing, you are right, they sounded great!

The Flying Burrito Brothers had lots of Sneaky Pete playing (on a Fender single neck).

I bet you will receive lots of good advise from other Forum members on this!

Keep on Pickin'!

Walter
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

quote:

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I'm interested too in Fender PS. The 800 seems weird to me, because it has 5 pedals and only 1 knee lever.

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Do you think a Fender 800 could be a good PS for a beginner ?
What is this "unique Fender sound" ???
Is it the sound that can be heard on the Flying Burrito Brother's song "Christine's Tune" or "Devil In Disguise" ???

What is a good price for a Fender 800 ???

(I know Fender guitars pretty good, but not PS)

Get a nice used Sho-Bud or Marlen S-10, with at least 3 pedals and 2 levers. You should be able to do that for $1300 or thereabouts. Well-known Forum member and hot steel player Ricky Davis knows the whereabouts of a lot of these guitars, and is networked with a bunch of honest people. Ricky also overhauls/restores guitars, so he might be able to point you to one that he's personally tweaked.

If you like the vintage steel tone from the Byrds' album, Sho-Bud or Marlen will give you what you want. I've got 1 Sho-Bud and a couple of Marlens, but I can't bear to part with any of them. So... check with Ricky!

Also talk to Crowbear, David Donald, Nick and the other guys over there- they can give you some good advice.

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 21 January 2004 at 05:36 AM.]

You're not to far from Crowbear Schmitt, he will no doubt post on here when he wanders across this thread. He has been a big help to me dealing with all steel issues.

And check out his french language steelers BB http://pub84.ezboard.com/bsteelguitarfrance
A new thing but growing slowly.

Lloyd Green always played a Sho-Bud, well almost always, so that's likely the Sweetheart's sound you like.

Crowbear and I both play old Sho-Buds. If you drive down to Ariege, I bet you'd find a warm welcome at the bear cave and at least one good steel to try. Me I am due out that aways soon, with mine too, but I am by Nimes normally.

Ted Nesbit is great to talk with on the phone and knows his steel. So you could do a lot worse than his place. Ireland is a lot closer than Tennessee.

For a 1st time buyer I would avoid E-bay, but if you saw something on the PSG forum, you might have very good luck, (I did) we kinda watch each others backs around here.

From what I've heard the PS for me would be a ShoBud S10.
What is a good price for such an instrument ?

Let me know if you have one you'd be willing to sell !

Go try some guitar if you can, even if you don't know how to play, you can feel the movements of the pedals/levers and the height/size of the guitar.

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Steel what?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 21 January 2004 at 10:21 AM.]

The "unique Fender sound" you describe is actually the "unique Sneaky Pete sound". I think that you can come close to that with a modern pedal steel and modern electronics, without resorting to playing an antique in an odd-ball tuning.

I always recommend an E9th with at least 3 knee levers to beginners. The Carter Starter is an excellent choice because it has the exact knee levers you need for 99% of the instructional material on the market today. A used pro guitar is more likely to have odd levers and to be missing the ones you need.

For example, my expensive, pro model guitar has 5 levers, but it doesn't have the "X lever" (lowering B to A#) that Jeff Newman uses in his his courses. I have my own reasons for omitting this change, but you as a student of the instrument should learn about the X lever. That's why it's there on the Carter Starter.

If you are interested in playing the E9th PSG
you probably want to get a guitar with 3 pedals and four knee levers. I think that a sho-bud ldg might be a good idea. They go for about $1200 or so, and one from Bobbe Seymore would be somewhat more, but also a very nice instrument. I would suggest that you buy from Bobbe or other very reputible vendor (Ricky Davis) on this forum. Either of these guys would tune up the guitar so you would probably not have a problem when you get it. I supppose that any guitar that you had delivered to France would hold its value since PSGs are so rare over there.

I would NOT advise a Fender PSG, they are sort of neat, but you would be better off with a more modern instrument. No Fenders
had any knee levers (I think).

But I think if he gets a decent steel he won't outgrow shortly, any odd things on a copedent Crowbear and I can sort out for him.

It's nice to have a 20 something taking up the PSG around here!

If he gets a Carter, the copedent is welded into place. Nothing against Carter's pro steels, but to import a starter here is not logical,
it is nearly 1/2 the cost just to ship it.
If I pay that much on top I would want to get something useful and configurable for later on, not just for a year.
A used pro S-10, SD-10 U-12 etc, can do that.

If he gets an old solid unit that can be resold if neccesary and will hold it's value after it gets here, he is better off.

Hi Victor
The Green Pro III is similar to my Pro-II
Some like the Pro-II mechanism better as stronger in some metla parts etc. But basically it is the same and it is a good steel. I am very happy with mine.

I like the orange one, but it is short an knee lever, but notice the pedals are on the left side. You could add a lever later. It has some other things that are good too as the listing states.

The yellow has 4 levers, but the pedals are oddly in the middle. I can't see where the levers are in relation to the pedals. But that's not a deal breaker.

Either steel could server purposes fine and be resellable.

The Professional there is quite close to Crowbear's.
A gorgeous sounding steel but bloody heavy too. It also has a very old type mechanism.
I would say it isn't a beginners steel.

Now the plug for Bobbe; CB got his Profesional there, it arrived properly packed in good condition and as advertised.

This is not to say the best deal for you is a Sho-Bud vs other brands. But then again you have two people who know buds around your neck of the woods too.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 January 2004 at 04:42 AM.]

I have bought several used guitars on the Forum. Every single one had some problem, such as levers too far to reach or too close together, missing parts, bizarre tunings and setups, etc. Because of my previous knowledge, they were all brands and models still manufactured, and I have been able to get the right parts (the exception being a 12-string
Emmons push/pull, for which there are after market parts available). With some perseverance I have been able to get them all standard. But I would not wish this problem on a beginner, especially not someone far from knowledgeable repair people.

What is the difference between a student model and a S10 pro model ???

We typically recommend you buy as much steel as you can afford.

Also read the first FAQ on the page located at the previous link. You will find some tips for buying and what to look for here:
http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/howtobuy/howtobuy.htm

It's is the decision to just do it correctly and be determined to really learn and play the critter.

And a good old new england yankee saying always applies :
Long after the joy of low price wears off,
lingers the curse of poor quality.

Or a hard welded copedent, cabinet drop and no more levers.

Just to be clear that the above comment about A SPECIFIC Carter is not a disparagement of the whole line or the nice people at the company.

It was meant only to include the "Starter" and not the pro and custom line Carters.
I played on a full D-10 Carter at ISGC and liked it.

A Carter Starter is quite appropriate in many situations, and is a wonderful gift to those wondering if they want to get into it.
A real working steel for the price of a Strat!

But for Victors location an proposed musics it isn't the logical choice for him IMHO, and nothing more.

And for the comentary on Bobbe's stock listed above, I have had a few e-mails with Victor and understand a bit of what Victor wants to play and so the comments are besed on that criteria.
Some people will be quite happy in their bands with any one of Bobbe's steels listed.
Depends on what they plan to play.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 23 January 2004 at 09:18 AM.]

Bonne chance,

Joe H.

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 23 January 2004 at 12:43 PM.]