1. Tune all raises* at the key head.

2. Tune the open strings at the bottom row of tuning screws.

3. Tune all lowers at the top row of tuning screws.

If you follow any other order, you will in all likelyhood chase your tail until you stop and follow the above in sequence.

* If you have a whole tone raise and a half tone raise, follow the above with the following exceptions:

1. Tune the whole tone raises at the keyhead.

2. Same

3. Same

4. Tune the half tone raises underneath the guitar with the "half-tone" tuners.

carl

Do you tune OPEN E underneath the guitar and RAISE to F at the Keys, and LOWER to Eb at the top row of screws?
And where do you tune the C-pedal which RAISES the E to F#?
Peter

[This message was edited by Peter on 01 February 2004 at 02:01 PM.]

the tuning procedure is always the same:

1. the maximum possible raise - raise finger touching the body - is tuned at the keyhead,
2. the maximum possible lower - lower finger touching the screws in the endplate - is tuned at the top row of tuning screws at the endplate,
3. the open pitch of a string that is raised or raised and lowered is tuned with the tuning screws on the lower finger, which are accessible through the bottom row at the endplate,
4. any raise or lower in between the max. raise or max. lower needs a half-tone tuner on the swivel of its bellcrank and is only accessible by reaching under the guitar.

Identical raises/lowers (5th B-C# on A pedal and C pedal) Have to be timed with shock springs and pedal travel. You could use a half-tone tuner on either of the two identical raises to make things easier, but you don't have to. I call them "lazy tuners".

To your question: The 8th string F raise is tuned on the keyhead, open E at the bottom row, D#/Eb at the top row.

If you raise 8th E to F# on pedal C like Paul Franklin, F# is tuned at keyhead, E bottom row, D# top row, and F with half-tone tuner.

I just saw that you have edited your post: The same goes for the 4th string: F#-keyhead, E-bottom, D#-top, F-half-tone tuner.

If you do not have a half-tone tuner on your guitar: Bobbe Seymore sells them.

A string that is not raised (9th D) will be tuned to its highest pitch (D) at the keyhead. The tuning screw in the lower finger can be screwed all the way in, so the the raise finger touches the body. The lower (to C#) is tuned at the top row.

If you don't raise 2nd D# to E, but lower it to D and C#, there are two (2) methods:

1. Tune D# at keyhead, time lower to D with 9th lower to C# using shock springs and/or two-hole bellcranks. It's a little trickier on a P/P than on an all-pull, and easier on a right-moving lever than on a left-moving lever. Tune C# at the top row.

2. An additional return spring pulls the raise finger against the body (tune D# at keyhead), the pushrod pushes against the RAISE finger until it stops at the tuning screw in the lower finger (tune D at bottom row), the rod pushes farther, taking the lower finger AND the raise finger with it until they rest against the lower tuning screws in the endplate (tune at top row).

Email me, if you have further questions.

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 01 February 2004 at 02:31 PM.]

Look at the procedure I gave, and as you do, I will answer each question. The C pedal raises the E (4th string) from E to F#. This is done in step 1.

The E to Eb lever is done in step 3.

The E to F lever is done BOTH in step 1 (8th string) And the asterisk exception in step 4 (4th string).

To explain: Since the E to F (knee lever) is a half a tone and the E to F# (C pedal) is a whole tone, you tune the C pedal in step one at the key head. You tune the open E in step 2. And you tune the E to F (knee lever) by reaching under the guitar and adjusting the half tone tuner on the E to F lever on the 4th string.

It appear intimidating at first, but once you get the hang of it, it is piece of cake.

hope this helps,

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Peter den Hartogh-Emmons 1978 S10 - Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Carl, Richard, and Rainer are all right on the money with what they are telling you. Just a little reminiscing on my part: I, and several others, learned about setting up and tuning the Emmons push-pull guitars the hard way! Years ago, before I could play much of anything on pedal steel, I heard that there was one of these guitars for sale about 15 miles from where I was living at the time, along with a Session 500 short-cabinet amp and a pack-a-seat. So I went and bought the outfit. The guy that had it couldn't make it play. Well the guitar showed a lot of use and wear, and when I got it home I saw that the mechanism was so entirely messed up that I basically had to start from scratch. First I got a knowledgable buddy of mine to sort of get it "working". Then over the next couple of years I got the guitar working a lot better by trial and error and replacing a number of damaged rods, springs, and worn-out screws, changing things around, adjusting, etc. I made several calls to Ron Lashley Sr. and one comment that he made has stuck with me: "Is it hittin' the wood? That raise finger has gotta hit the wood!" Well, anyway, in the process I certainly learned how Emmons push-pull guitars work and how to tune them up properly. Then I had to learn how to play the doggone thing. Once you learn the push-pull tuning method by an ordeal like the one I went through, you never forget! I will tell you this, tone-wise that old push-pull Emmons is mighty hard to beat. (I'll tell you something else though, I travel with a LeGrande II that is 100% trouble-free and has a wonderful tone, and it's a whole lot easier to tune than the push-pull!).

Anyway, enjoy your push-pull. They are great guitars!

Tim Rowley

[This message was edited by Tim Rowley on 01 February 2004 at 11:03 PM.]

quote:

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i can't seem to get it to stay completely in tune

---

I guess you mean that you have to adjust the tuning screws in the endplate too frequently - right?

1.-How old are the strings? With brand new strings the tuning has to be touched up more often until the strings have "settled". After that (very short) period the strings should stay pretty much in tune, until they are so old that accumulated dirt and/or oxidation will make them hard, if not impossible, to tune.

2.-Is the changer in tune? Before adjusting any pulls or pushes at the bell cranks or setting the pedal/lever travel, the changer has to be in tune. Go to this site: http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html
and follow the instructions to tune the changer. Then reset the bellcranks, pedal/lever travel, pedal/lever stops, if necessary.
While tuning the changer, check if the fingers are moving freely without any resistance. If anything is binding - even slightly - clean the changer with Naphtha (lighter fluid) and re-lube it.

3.-How tight/loose are the screws in the endplate? These screws either have plastic inserts along the thread or are dabbed with lock-tite (red) to ensure that they don't move all by themselves. When you tune them with the allen wrench the tuning screws should feel positive and precise, not wobbly. If they are too loose, a fresh dab of medium lock-tite (not the permanent kind!!) will make them behave properly again. If the threads are worn out you'll need new screws. If the threads in the changer fingers are worn out ... well, let's not even think about it!

4.-Are the rod collars tight? Slipping collars will make the guitar go out of tune.

5.-The shock springs on the pull and push rods (the little springs between the rod collars and the swivels on the bell cranks) must not be under pressure, if no raise or lower is engaged. In the "idle" position, they should not be compressed, even slightly, but move freely. Otherwise, the guitar will be almost impossible to tune. Check for broken shock springs - they can cause binding - and replace them with springs of equal length.

If none of the above applies, call one of our certified P/P gurus on this forum. They'll be glad to help.

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 08 February 2004 at 02:27 PM.]