With the high G# to G, you will often want to be able to lower your second string to D at the same time. If you lean towards JI tuning, your D lever might sound a bit flat because the G is tuned so sharp. (In JI the G should be tuned about 314 cents sharp of the E.)

I have a compensator that raises the 2nd string a few cents when I lower the 3rd string. The tri-tone interval (D#-G) doesn't suffer because it's closer to ET, and the fourth interval (D-G) is more in tune.

I wouldn't put both changes on the same pedal or knee because then I'd lose that tri-tone. Better to have them separate.

Since I play extended E9th, I sometimes use the low G as the root and think of my tuning as a G major on the low strings. It's a handy position.

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adding a D# to D lower to the G# to G pedal/lever

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With a separate D# to D lever or pedal, you could easily transition from a major 9 to a dominant 9 to a minor 9 smoothly.

I currently have my F# going up two full steps to be in unison with the G#. I think it would be far more useful to lower the G#s to Gs than to raise the F#s to Gs, because you can keep the same strings ringing as you transition from major to minor, or from minor to major. If you have to access that G by raising the F#s a half step, you will have to block your G# strings and pick your raised F# strings. The beauty of pedal steel, to me, at least, has always been in the continuity and legato flow from chord voicing to chord voicing; I think the G# to G would really take advantage of this wonderful instrument.

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If you lean towards JI tuning, your D lever might sound a bit flat because the G is tuned so sharp. (In JI the G should be tuned about 3.14 cents sharp of the E.)

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Things get pretty complicated when you get off the zero...

The G# Eb lower might be a good 4th pedal combo or "possibly a VKL". Possibly too, (Pete) a GREAT "Travis" position.

Hmm.. Haven't thought of changing copedants for decades.... There's a LOT of stuff out there..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 28 February 2004 at 12:20 PM.]

I'm not a reference (and far from being), but I have it on the Zum I've just bought.
I only have it on the 6th string, it's on RKL.

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

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There are several of us dinosaurs that never 'migrated' to the E9 tuning and stayed with EMaj and/or E6. This pull has been a mainstay with my tuning since the late 50's or early 60's.

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Eric: Aren't you having one of your Sho-Buds refurbished by the Marrs crew? What about having them put it on that while they're at it?

[This message was edited by Chris Lasher on 28 February 2004 at 04:16 PM.]

I introduced that change to Bob McCormick in Nashville----- he tried it and now uses it constantly.

Danny K

[This message was edited by Danny Kuykendall on 20 March 2004 at 09:56 AM.]

Next day I put 2 G#'s to G on RKL and do not regret it a bit.
Somethings I JUST CAN"T Do with out it.

It made the E9 quite logical to use on certain russian/ balkan flavord songs.
Am to Dm back and forth FAST and with specific voicings I needed. AB w/LKV or LKR, alternating RKL.

It also for me makes it much more like the changes I can get on C6. I have been gradually getting the same harmonic functionality on both necks, yet keeping their unique advantages.

A cool bluesy change with it is
E lower w/pB, then G lower with pA, then no pedals.
All the same fret.
Then you can add Bs to Bb LKV and G# lower and back to no pedals.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 February 2004 at 06:08 AM.]

All in all It's going to be a couple grand WELL spent considering I spent that much on a rear wheel disc brake setup for my panhead last year and haven't ridden it in a couple months.

Probably this week, but I'll have plenty of time to finalize changes.

On strings 10 8 6 5 4 3
Apedal + E's to F (LKL) = Major triad ( 2 octaves)
Apedal only = minor triad ( 2 octaves )
A pedal + G#'s to G (LKV) = dim triad ( 2 octaves )

or use G#'s to G by itself for the minor voicing on strings 10 8 6 5 4 3.

Sometimes it might sound better playing strings 6 & 4 (no pedals/levers) slide 1fret down and add LKV instead of 2 frets down & add LKL or 3 frets down & add B+C.

Use G#'s-G together w 9string D-C# for a nice dom9 on strings 9 8 6 5.
Try this
10fret, lower 9 to C# and 6 to G, play strings 9 8 6 5.
Let ring and slide to 3rd fret while releasing both lowers, add A pedal at 3rd fret.
Release A pedal and lower both 9str D-C# & 6 G#-G.
Nice change from G9 G13 G7 to C9.

If you use the G#-G it will probably function best if the pivot point is to the right on the LKV since you want a smooth transition from Apedal + LKL to Apedal + LKV.

IF you prefer the B-Bb change it is better to have the pivot point to the left on LKV since it will be used together w A+B+LKR(E's-Eb)

If you have E's-Eb on RK then this does not matter, unless you have the lower of 2&9 on LKR. Then the pivot point should be to the left since both G#-G or B-Bb is used together w the lowering of strings 2 & 9

Bengt Erik Erlandsen

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 18 March 2004 at 04:10 AM.]

On my U-12 as I stated, I lower all 3 G#'s to G. I also, split RKL with the B pedal to give me a G on strings 6 and 10 .

BUT, they are NOT tuned to the same pitch as LKL. IE, on LKL where I lower all G#'s to G, I opt' for a pretty E minor chord. But on RKL with the split, I opt' for a better sounding A7th chord.

I know b0bby does not agree that these two notes are a different pitch, but I have always had the exact same problem on the C6 neck on D-10's when it comes to the 6th pedal.

IE, If I tune the Eb for a pretty (JI) C minor, the F7th chord does not sound right. And vice versa.

So having them both gives me the best of both worlds.

carl

A Better Way

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 18 March 2004 at 07:01 AM.]

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

For me this was what was missing on E9 vs C6,
Now I have both the old country licks and a better way around more complex changes.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 March 2004 at 04:12 AM.]

You are soooo correct. Of course we had it with B and C, but this caused us to have to move the bar two frets. While this is ok, it is better to be able just to lower the major third to a minor third with a knee lever.

I use BC, but not for the same things.
Also it tends to give unintended note slides on certain passing chords.
Try doing an AB V chord into a BC IIm into I open.
With the G lever it's smooth as silk.

When less levers was normal, BC was more neccesary, but now we have more options of minors and that is very positive.

I was pulling the 2nd to D detuning. a touch and doing a slight bar slant to get the two in tune.

Today I actualy built, installed and ultimately removed,
a "McGuivered" mid rod lever as a cam to get more travel.
even THAT didn't make it happy. And I REALLY want this change there.

But I said OK, it don't work... So I flip flopped it.
I now raise string 1 to G while the 2nd still goes to D but truer.

But that 3rd string G# was just too horrible to leave untouched, so I have now raised that to A.
It at least was not a brick wall to run into.

This was a quite suprising change.
I don't mind that high 11th a bit over the minors.
It also makes this lever work even better with the Jeff lever Bb's.

And suprisingly cool with the Franklin pedal.
Which tended to be by it's self most of the time.

And if that wasn't enough it is lovely with pedal A also.
This Crawford minor lever (CrM) is on RKL.
presently 1G, 2D, 3A, 6G and 9C# to D
I have cool licks from A with F
and A with RLK CrM

I real find a much more C6 kind of thing happening, without losing a bunch of country lick too.

Your milage may vary... my harmonic is is rather wide.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 16 April 2004 at 09:09 AM.]

I had E6 as Alvino Rey did back in 1947 on my Gibson 8 string 6 pedal Electra-harp. Here is the way it was tuned then at that time.

top to bottom-
E_C#_B_G#_E_C#_B_G# that is all I had to work with.

Now the G# to G was one of the most important pedals. Not only did I lower the 4th string G# to G, I also Lowered my 7th string to A giving me and A9th, plus the Emi6.

I flat the 1st string for a Maj7th and use it in conjunction with the G lowered, gives me a nice aug 11th, one fret up from the tonic 7th.

Flatting the B's was another important pedal, and with the min G together gives the Diminished. I am going to stop right now before I get carried away.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/