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Author
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Topic: On The Soap Box for KLINE
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Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 29 February 2004 11:50 AM
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Well I finally took the plunge and got a Kline! Being very partial to keyless guitars and having owned most every keyless made (except Kline) at one time or another, I decided about a month ago to take a chance on that guitar with the "off the beaten path" mechanism. I can see now why I NEVER saw or heard any negative comments about it. I bought it and sent it to Joe Kline for a set up change over and after a few weeks of enjoying it I can now say I think I've found the guitar I've been looking for (for 20+ yrs). So much so that I just sold my Zum that I said I would NEVER sell and have just bought another Kline! Don't get me wrong Zum is in my opinion the best guitar made,,,and if Bruce made a keyless,,,,,. Honestly Kline is THE most unsung PSG out there. If you ever get a chance to play one do,,,and see for yourself why people who own Klines say they'll never part with them. I think the mechanism is similar to the old ZBs,,which may account for all the positive opinions of them. I'd like to hear from some other Kline owners (reviews, comments etc.) like the ongoing thread on the ZBs. Com'on Kline owners,,,stand up and be counted. |
George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
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posted 29 February 2004 01:27 PM
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Sonny, since I am the one that sold you the Kline, I am very pleased to find out how happy you are with it. In all the years I had it, I always said "I will never sell this guitar." I started out in 1969 with an Emmons PP and got this wild hair that I would like to have another Emmons PP. I kept the PP and the Kline for quite a while, trying to decide which one to keep. I finally let the Kline go, probably because the Emmons was Black and the Kline was Rosewood. It was certainly a toss up as to which one to keep. I think I was just ready for a change. The Kline really served me well. It sounded great, stayed in tune, didn't break strings. What more could you ask in a guitar? I was a very satisfied Kline owner and if I get in the market for another guitar, it will be another Kline. I really miss the keyless tuning of the Kline. |
Don McClellan
Member From: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
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posted 29 February 2004 05:51 PM
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I can't compare Kline to other guitars because I don't know anything about other guitars anymore. I've been a Kline man for a long time. But I will once again argue in favor of the keyless tuning system. In another thread Carl Dixon talked about not liking the looks of the short length of a keyless guitar and I didn't bother to comment in that thread but let me say now that It seems foolish to me that people are willing to forfit the advantages of the keyless system just to have the same look they've grown used to with a keyed guitar. When cars were first invented they had a hand crank in the front which the driver had to turn many times to get the car started. I wonder how many car owners at that time would have nothing to do with new cars that started with a key because they liked the looks of the crank in the front even though it was so much easier to start a car with a key? When they invented rubber for the tires how many people said they liked the looks of wooden wheels better and refused to use rubber tires? And when they invented the windshield how many said they preferred the looks of a car without the windshield? Ron Lashley once told me the reason Emmons Guitars doesn't make keyless guitars was because they're ugly! Remember, Anipeg is the Rolls Royce of steels and they are ALL keyless. Now Klines have a remarkable reputation and they are all keyless. Why are so many steel manufacturers so far behind on this issue? Why are so many players so subborn about this? I really don't get it.[This message was edited by Don McClellan on 29 February 2004 at 05:54 PM.] |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 29 February 2004 05:53 PM
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Hey George,,,yes I sent it to Joe for a set up change, I took out the gouges out of the pick up housing and cleaned the sticky stuff off the back. I've got a laquer Kline on the way that will need some set up work that I may try to do myself. They are great little guitars. Lets hear from some more proud Kline owners!!!!!! |
Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 29 February 2004 06:36 PM
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Amen Don McClellan! I've never owned a Kline although I've flirted with the idea since I first heard about them in the 70s.I have owned and still own 2 other keyless guitars - a Sierra and an Excel and I'm sold on the concept. I read here the other day that there were some new Klines being built and the question presents itself: Are they going to be the exact same changer or might they possibly have an increase in the raise/lower capabilities. As I understand it you can have 2 raise/1 lower or 2 lower/1 raise. To me,this was the only design shortcoming on the Kline guitar especially for a loaded U-12.I have a tape of Jeff Newman playing Roy Orbison's "Crying" on a 2 tone laquer 12 string at Scotty's Convention in 1984 and it still brings goosebumps. What a tone!
-MJ- |
Jeff Hogsten
Member From: Flatwoods Ky USA
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posted 29 February 2004 08:54 PM
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is the Kline still made. I visited Joe back in 79 or 80 when I was spending a few weeks in Niles Ohio playing at a rivival meeting with a gospel group I was in. Joe came over and heard us and practly gave me a guitar which is the only way I could have afforded it at that time. He was a great guy but I never stayed in touch. I had to sell the guitar a couple of years later to pay off some debts, story of my life but I loved it. I still wonder why the keyless is not more popular Jeff Hogsten |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 01 March 2004 03:14 AM
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My my!!
All those questions. LOOK AT MY SITE: http://julianwinston.com and look for the piece about the Kline. It shows the mechanism and all the details.
The idea that you can have 2 raises/lowers and only one other if false.
Look at the stuff on my site. I have the B going to C# on pedal 1, 3, and 4. This counts as ONE change (B to C#) Because Joe is using pullers like the old Fenders, you can have any number of pulls (to the same note) on any string.
I have 6 pedals and 8 knees on my Single 12, and never found the changer lacking in any way.
I have had mine since 1979, and I can count the times on one hand that I've had to touch the tuning on the changer.
I once did a seminar and was asked how I tune my pedals (i.e., how many cents sharp or flat). I said I didn't know-- because in the three years I had the guitar I had never found a need to touch any of the pedal/knee tunings.
I liked it when I first saw it, bought a keyless unit from Joe to put on my home-built, and then got the Kline I now play.
It does all I want in a steel. Of all those out there, I'd love to have an Anapeg-- but that's because it's an amazing guitar (and keyless too). But the waiting list is too long.
So I'm happy that I have the Kline I got.
I'll be coming to St. Louis this year, and Joe is bringing a steel for me to play-- dammed if I'm going to lug mine through US Customs!Want details? Check out my web site. JW |
steve takacs
Member From: beijing, china
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posted 01 March 2004 06:21 AM
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Rick Troyer of Hummingbird Music is having Joe Kline build a few Klines for him. Here is what Rick wrote me a few weeks ago: "We're getting closer ! Joe has a S-12 ready for copedent set up . The sale price is $2995 . We haven't reached a price on the D-10 as of yet . A ballpark figure would be around $3495 . If you're interested we could build the guitar to your spec. re. color, coepedent etc." Here is Rick's email: rick@hummingbirdmusicstudio.com So if you want a new Kline, here is your chance to get one, now. steve [This message was edited by steve takacs on 01 March 2004 at 06:23 AM.] |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 01 March 2004 09:03 AM
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Same experience as Winnie for me. I've had my Kline U-12 for 20 years. I've never--NEVER--had to adjust the changer! I've been reading, with amazement and no small amount of amusement, the other threads about the problems involving pre-stretching strings when using keyless tuners. This is never an issue with my Kline. I just pull the strings as much as is comfortable, lock in, tune up. Then I use an old Fender string stretcher. It's one of those little gadjets that you hook onto the string, then slide up and down a few times. Then I retune the string, and I'm good to go for days and days. Usually, the only string I have to retune is the G#, and that's normal. Playing house gigs 5 to 6 nights a week, the only string I'd have to retune would be that third, and I'd usually replace that one once a week. These guitars are rock-steady! |
Jimmy Dale
Member From: Ripley, W.Va
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posted 01 March 2004 01:05 PM
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You hear so much about cabinett drop. Get your Kline in tune, and then hit that E string or any other, and mash the A&B down and see what the drop is. I've had mine since 89' and It's a keeper. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'
PS: The "drop" on mine is hardly measurable. |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 02 March 2004 09:34 AM
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Michael, I used to looked at it the same way but Kline approaches changes from a different angle,,,,,,not how many pedals and knees are active, but how many tones the string is changed to. It's pretty easy to get a 4 tone change on the same string. Mine has the standard Newman set up but some of these I'm seeing have a Kazillion changes. I don't really think there is a limit when it's appraoched from this angle |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 02 March 2004 01:34 PM
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Can anyone of you Kline owners tell me how much a S10. S12 or D10 Weighs all setup out of the case.??? I am just curious about that............al  ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 02 March 2004 01:50 PM
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quote:
"Ron Lashley once told me the reason Emmons Guitars doesn't make keyless guitars was because they're ugly!"
Yep, my sentiments exactly. Foolish to some maybe, but not to me. "One man's cupa tea is another man's anathema". I LOVE my keyless, but I would hate it if it looked like a keyless.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007228.html Thank Jesus, Mitsuo was gracious enough to make my keyless look like I wanted it to. To each his own Don  carl |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 02 March 2004 02:19 PM
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Carl,,,,,Gotta disagree with you on this one! I think keyless guitars are beautiful. After all, it's just the cabinet being a few inches shorter in your case. I know that a couple of dozen shiney tuning keys make for great eye-candy, but there's something to be said for the lovely simplicity of the form-follows-function design of keyless guitars. Well,, It's,, it's mo scientific!
Best, JB |
John McClung
Member From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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posted 02 March 2004 03:34 PM
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I'm leaning more and more towards getting a keyless due to the benefits many of you describe. So: any one have ratings on Williams vs Kline vs ??? Don't bother with Sierra, I've played those enough to know they're not the tone (or weight!) for me. I always did love Klein tone, especially Don McClellan's. Howdy, Don! |
Jimmy Dale
Member From: Ripley, W.Va
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posted 02 March 2004 04:48 PM
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Al, If I remember right, my single 12 on a double body is 56 lbs out of the case. I had an SS12 set up the same way that was that was 36 lbs. The one I have is Mica and , the SS was laquer. Jim. I'D RATHER BE STEELIN' |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 02 March 2004 04:53 PM
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John I owned a Willy for about 6 months,,,bought it brand new, built the way I wanted and sold it at a substantial loss! Can't say anything bad about it,,,just didn't feel good to me.I've also owned GFI, Lamar and Sierra,,,same story. The Kline feels right, sounds right and looks right to me. I wonder how many Kline owners are tuned in here? Stand and be counted. |
Jack Klein
Member From: Alpena, MI, USA
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posted 02 March 2004 06:10 PM
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Hi, Sonny, have a S10 Kline and it is a keeper. have tried two others and am glad I didn't get goofy and sell it.
and, Al, I think it is about 35# out of the case Jack |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 03 March 2004 02:26 AM
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Weight? Just went over to Australia with my S-12. It is quite full-- 6 pedals and 8 knees.
I have a secondary case for travel-- a cardboard box with 1" thick Ethafoam all around. Ther regular case fits in that box.
The total weight was 28 kilos. (about 61.5 pounds)JW |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 03 March 2004 06:43 AM
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Does anyone know how many Klines were made? Or when the last one was produced? I understand Joe is building 3 more for Rick Troyer. Since there was a limited number produced (as were the ZBs) I am fortunate to have 2 of them. At some point I'll probably sell one of mine. |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 03 March 2004 08:26 PM
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It's been a few months since I've been up here on the SGF, and look what I've missed... Joe Kline is making steels again? I've had my Kline S-12 for over 25 years. It's still the only steel I gig with. Action and tone is wonderful. Very low maintenance. The changer stays in tune as others have mentioned. The keyless tuner, with no gear slop, is very precise and easy to tune, more so than conventional tuners in my experience. Changing strings is easy and quick. As for appearance, Joe's design has a simple elegance that looks classy (my opinion). Conventional tuners almost look wierd to me now. |
Nick Reed
Member From: Springfield, TN
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posted 04 March 2004 01:55 AM
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I really don't care for keyless guitars. I've seen the Kline's but didn't care for the way they looked on stage.
I've fooled around with Steels for over 18 years, and IMHO Emmons guitars especially old P/P's are the best in sound, and ZumSteels rank up there second in sound as well as excellence in playability. NR |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 04 March 2004 10:39 AM
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That's cool Nick,,,,"one man's trash is another man's treasure". No doubt Zums are great guitars,,,I just sold one to buy another Kline. (I'm sure at some point in my life I'll buy another Zum!). I'll try to have at least one of my Klines at the Dallas show for those who have never seen/played one. |
George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
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posted 04 March 2004 02:16 PM
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Bruce, I know what you mean. After playing the Kline for many years, I now have an Emmons PP and it just looks funny to me. I don't like all that wasted space for tuning keys. It really is what you get used to. If you are holding a bee in your hand, what do you have in your eye? answer: Beauty, because BEAUTY LIES IN THE EYE OF THE BEE-HOLDER! This pretty much sums it up. It is human nature to be swayed by looks. That is why there is so much makeup for sale at Wal-Mart. Is there really any woman that is so ugly she would need all that stuff? A lot of steeler's are swayed by eye candy on a guitar, and unfortunately, it is often a mistake. |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 05 March 2004 04:54 PM
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Surely there are some more Kline owners out there???????? Kinda makes us feel like part of a elite group. |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 07 March 2004 12:42 PM
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Winnie (or anyone who might know) is the Anapeg mechanism similar to Kline? What makes Anapeg superior to other PSGs? |
David Decker
Member From: Canton, Ohio, USA
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posted 07 March 2004 02:00 PM
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I have a Black U-12 Kline, We'll part when I'm in the ground! There are alot of Kline players in Ohio. Their a GREAT guitar! I've read all this stuff about keyless, and prestrechers. Simply put not needed on a Kline. I can change a string on my Kline faster than I can on any of my keyed guitars. |
Richard Sinkler
Member From: Fremont, California
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posted 07 March 2004 04:12 PM
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I played a Kline D10 for over 20 years. Absolutely the best guitar I have owned and played. My now ex-wife made me sell it when I bought my Carter a few years ago. Biggest mistake I ever made. If I was in a position to buy another guitar, I would buy a new Kline, sight unseen. Does anyone know if Joe made any changes to the new guitars? |
Don McClellan
Member From: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
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posted 07 March 2004 06:22 PM
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Rich, I asked that question about changes and was told that there were no changes made in the new ones. I was a little surprised to hear that, but I guess they figure "no need' as the Hawaiians would say. |
Don McClellan
Member From: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
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posted 07 March 2004 06:24 PM
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oops![This message was edited by Don McClellan on 09 March 2004 at 12:11 PM.] |
Don McClellan
Member From: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
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posted 07 March 2004 06:26 PM
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Sorry[This message was edited by Don McClellan on 09 March 2004 at 12:12 PM.] |
steve takacs
Member From: beijing, china
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posted 07 March 2004 06:49 PM
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I've had a white Kline U-12 8+5 purchased new in 1988 but with minimal mileage. The guitar was never the problem, the player getting his head into U-12 has been. What is written about it staying in tune is not hype. It also sounds good, & the mechanics are pecise. Additionally, it is built as solidly as anything I've ever seen. Since I had not been using it, I tried to sell it twice on The Forum the past year without luck. Perhaps it's the white color, "keyless look" or the difficulty for the unmechanical to work on it (true for me at least). Even before I read Richard Sinkler post, I decided to keep it give the U-12 another shot. To make the switch easier for me, Joe Kline has graciously agreed to add more changes this summer. If all goes well,it will return with me to Beijing.[This message was edited by steve takacs on 07 March 2004 at 10:54 PM.] |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 08 March 2004 02:43 AM
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Sonny asked:
"Winnie (or anyone who might know) is the Anapeg mechanism similar to Kline? What makes Anapeg superior to other PSGs? "I am working on getting some pics of an Anapeg up on the web. I was just over to see Noel Anstead.
The Anapeg, is keyless. Other than that it is unlike a Kline in most ways-- different changer, different undersides, different construction, different everything.
What makes it superior to other PSG (in my opinion) is that it is exquisitely machined and thought out. And then carefully assembled-- one at a time.
What makes a Mercedes superior to a Chevvy? Both have engines, seats, doors, wheels, and tires. But one is made well, and the other is detailed to the nth degree.
That's what the Anapeg is like. JW |
B J Cole
Member From: London, England
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posted 09 March 2004 10:55 AM
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I got my Kline back in 1982 on the recommendation of Winnie Winston after having played an Emmons for ten years. It's a U12 with 6 pedals and 6 levers and a beautiful cherry and natural maple finish. It also has a prototype split single coil humbucker Bill Lawrence made for me and an IVL Steelrider MIDI pickup Joe retrofitted into a replacement bridge. I have been using this guitar continuously in a professional context for the last twenty two years and it has not let me down yet. I echo what everybody else has said about it's tuning stability. I would definitely never part with this guitar. A few years ago I Got a Williams as a road guitar with the same setup. The comparison between the two is interesting. The Williams is a more modern, lighter guitar with a more sophisticated changer (The Williams has a padded back but it's still lighter than the single neck Kline). Also I find the Williams has a better tone for Country playimg but the Kline is better for classical and experimental music.
I think eventually the Kline will be regarded as a 'classic' very much as Bigsbys are today. B J Cole |
Richard Sinkler
Member From: Fremont, California
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posted 10 March 2004 02:32 AM
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WOW, welcome to the forum B.J. Hopefully we will hear more from you. |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 16 March 2004 08:35 PM
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Just heard from Joe Kline,,,he has my laquer guitar copedent changed and ready to ship. My mica guitar may be for sale soon if someone wants a "keeper". |
Ernie Pollock
Member From: Mt Savage, Md USA
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posted 18 March 2004 05:53 AM
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I sold my first Kline S-12U to by a guitar with an aluminum neck, boy what a mistake there, I longed to get that first Kline back, never could, the guy that bought it was much smarter than I was!! I did get lucky last year & finally got another Kline S-12U with 7&6, in a laquer finish. I think the Kline is the best steel I have ever owned and it would take too long for me to list all of my gutiars from the past. If ya got Kline & have a taste for another brand, put your Kline back in the case & shove it under the bed, you'll be back fer it, thats for sure. The smoothest guitar ever built. I hear Joe is going to build a few more, now thats good news!! Oh, anyone in the Maryland area that would like to try my Kline just give me a holler!!Ernie Pollock |
Sonny Jenkins
Member From: New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
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posted 18 March 2004 09:34 AM
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Thanks for the input Ernie,,,that seems to be the typical sentiments on Kline. I don't think I've ever heard any negative comments about Klines. I now have 2 and I'm sure at some point I'll HAVE to sell one but man I hate to. |
Catus Jack
Member From: PA, USA
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posted 18 March 2004 05:46 PM
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I got my kline new from Joe. I went to look at then, after showing them to me, Joe and his wife had us stay for luch, the Kline's are the best. I have and had other steel, but will never let the Kline go. Stays in tune, doesn't break strings. It's good to hear that Joe is going to build a few more, one great steel.Catus Jack |
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