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  Emmons neck bolt question

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Author Topic:   Emmons neck bolt question
Richard Tipple
Member

From: Ohio, USA

posted 10 March 2004 09:28 AM     profile     
After reading up on adjusting the PP system, I tweaked up my S-10 Emmons, finger pulls, collars, springs Etc.
My question (S) are, where exactly are the neck screws on an Emmons ? The underside of my 70s Emmons is covered with a balck felt like paint . Are the neck screws under the coating somewhere ?
Also, can someone explain what effect the tightning on the neck screws has on tone.
While I am at this, there is a little chip of this coating chipped off and I noticed under it, it looks like some kind of composite material, not like wood. Were Emmons bodys made of composite material ?
My Emmons is all original so It came from the factory this way.
I learn somthing new about this instrument every time I work on it.
Can any one help with the answers,, thanks in advance
PS: this Emmons has a metal neck.
Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 10 March 2004 09:49 AM     profile     
Richard, I will answer the questions that I can. The body is hardrock maple and underneath is covered with a "barrier" which is a thin mica material sorta like mica without the finish applied to it. The neck bolts are countersunk flush with the cabinet and I think I remember there being 8 (4 near each edge of the neck). You could locate them with a magnet then you should be able to faintly make out the phillips screw slots.
The torque on the necks is a mystery to me. I don't know what to think of the theory that they should not be tight. I think some believe if they are snug less a 1/4 turn or so it improves tone but I am not buying that just yet. Of course, you sure don't need to tighten past real snug for fear of stripping or breaking a bolt off in the neck. I sure would be interested in hearing more on the theory of neck bolt torque and how tone is affected. Hmmm, I think I will give Ron Jr. and call and ask him.
Jerry

[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 10 March 2004 at 09:50 AM.]

Richard Tipple
Member

From: Ohio, USA

posted 10 March 2004 01:48 PM     profile     
Thanks for your reply Jerry, that answers the body make up. I dont think I will mess with the neck screws untill I get some more Info.
If you find out anything, please post it for me ,OK
Thanks again friend.
Bill Terry
Member

From: Bastrop, TX, USA

posted 10 March 2004 03:55 PM     profile     
There's a link in here that might help you out some..
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/006821.html
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 10 March 2004 04:21 PM     profile     
I only know what I have read here on the Forum. Buddy Emmons himself once said his guitar lost its tone when he snugged up the neck screws. So he slacked them off again and the tone came back. Bobbe Seymour is very coy about all these p/p secrets. But he claimed Ron could walk through a room of p/ps and strum each one once, unamplified, and know which ones weren't getting the tone they should. Bobbe then said that the tone of a p/p is "tunable" in this respect. But he didn't say exactly how to go about this neck tuning.

When I first got my p/p, I snugged up everything. I didn't notice that it's tone was especially different. After I read this stuff from Buddy and Bobbe, I backed off my neck screws at least a quarter turn (my silver screw heads are clearly visible). I then thought I heard better sustain, especially on the high frets, a more trebley sound overall, and better string separation on the low strings, because their overtones were coming through better. Maybe it was all in my head, or maybe as I played the guitar longer I heard it better.

But all this does make some mechanical sense. There is general agreement that wood necks sound darker, and it is believed this is because the solid wood neck screwed tight (or glued) to the body essentially becomes part of a thicker body that is somehow deader. The metal neck is hollow, and so doesn't make much contact with the body. Possibly if you snug up the screws it maximizes the contact and deadens the tone a little, and as you back off the screws it minimizes the contact and livens the tone up a little.

It's a pretty subtle thing. So much so that I have never gone back and experimented with it again, or tried a blinded test. By the time the tone goes through a pickup, a pedal, and an amp, I don't know that a listener would ever be able to notice the difference. Your foot on the volume pedal will compensate for the sustain. It's more like the player feels the difference. The tone out front may end up being the same, but you feel like you don't have to work quite as hard for sustain and string separation.

Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 10 March 2004 04:45 PM     profile     
I suspect that the issue with neck tightness isn't that a tight neck or a wood neck hurts the sound by "thickening" the body, but that any neck which is separate from the body will vibrate differently from the body, and one of the results may be the cancellation, or otherwise damping out, of some vibrations. Loosening the neck screws would seem to reduce that effect.

Conversely, of course, the results of some neck/body combinations may include some ear-pleasing reinforcements and/or combinations of some vibrations, including beat frequencies, and it could well be that "tuning" the neck screws allows you to optimize that.

It only goes to show that the sound of a PSG isn't the sum of its parts -- it's more than the sum of its parts!

Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 10 March 2004 05:49 PM     profile     
Can someone point to where Buddy made that statement or is it rumored? If Buddy said it then I will be loosening the necks on my Emmons guitars.
Jerry
Ron Whitworth
Member

From: Yuma,Ariz. USA

posted 10 March 2004 07:00 PM     profile     
Hi Jerry;
Here you go..It took some digging but i did find what you are looking for..This is a 4 part question/answer on the "Ask Buddy" part of Ernie Renn's website..This is the last part so if you want to read the beginning you will have to go backwards but anyway here it is in Mr. Emmon's own words:
http://www.buddyemmons.com/_board/00000147.htm
Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 10 March 2004 07:07 PM     profile     
Thanks Ron, you guys don't discuss anything important until I get back. I gotta go loosen some screws.
Jerry
Richard Tipple
Member

From: Ohio, USA

posted 11 March 2004 09:20 AM     profile     
So I guess from reading Buddys Q & A segment
its ,,,dont mess with the neck bolts ??
Ivan Posa
Member

From: Hamilton, New Zealand

posted 11 March 2004 07:22 PM     profile     
I have been meaning to try this neck bolt adjustment on my Bolt-on P/P for some time but never got around to trying it until I read this post.I wound the screws back 1/4 turn from the tight position and played some. The difference is considerably for the better. I have TT p/ups wound at 17.5 K which sounded great before but sound even better with this small adjustment. There are far fewer overtones especially above the 12th fret which is a big improvement to my ears. Obviously the effect of this small adjustment will vary from one guitar to another, but it has certainly been worthwile for me....IP

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