How do you use them? Basically in two ways.

1. To extend the E Major chord
Add the 9th string it becomes E7
Add the 2nd string it becomes EMa7
Add either the 1st or 7th to the E7 and it becomes E9 (E G# B D F#)

2. To play a scale without moving the bar
For example, to play an EMaj scale in the open position (no bar)

1--------------------------------------------
2--------------------0-----------------------
3--------------------------------------------
4------------------------0-------------------
5------------0--0A---------------------------
6-----0--0B----------------------------------
7---0----------------------------------------
8-0------------------------------------------

My website has some info you may find useful.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 12 March 2004 at 07:25 AM.]

F#-----8------- note = D
Eb-----8------- note = B
G#-------------
E--------------
B------8------- note = G
G#-----8------- note = E
F#-------------
E------8------- note = C
D--------------
B--------------

You might play all of those strings at the same time...
But it should not take long before you see that the position also includes the C chord, Ichord ( notes = C E G )
and the Em Chord, IIIm ( notes = E G B )
and the G chord, V chord ( notes = G B D )

Since the Dm would be a whole note down (2frets) from the Em it is at 6th fret.
The same is valid for the F chord (2 frets down from the G chord.

       C  Dm Em F  G
F#--------------6--8--
Eb--------6--8--6--8--
G#--------------------
E---------------------
B------8--6--8--6--8--
G#-----8--6--8--------
F#--------------------
E------8--------------
D---------------------
B---------------------

There you have 5 positions that cover the first 5 chords in the C major scale
This is one of the ways I use those extra strings.

Or you can play a Fmajor scale harmonized in thirds like this.

F#-----4--6--------11--13-----16-18-----
Eb-----4--6--------11--13-----16-18-----
G#--1--------6--8---------13--------18--
E---1--------6--8---------13--------18--
B---------------------------------------
G#--------------------------------------
F#--------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------

I also use this as part of what/where I like to play.

Bonus is you don't need to use any pedals/levers.

Bengt Erik Erlandsen

Edited for additional info.

If you want to change the minor voicing on strings 6 5 3 to a diminished voicing you need to lower the 2nd string a half-tone.

       C  Dm Em F  G  Am Bdim C
F#----------------------------13--
Eb--------6--8--------13--15L-13--
G#--------------------------------
E---------------------------------
B------8--6--8--13-15-13--15--13--
G#-----8--6--8--13-15-13--15------
F#--------------------------------
E------8--------13-15-------------
D---------------------------------
B---------------------------------

Let the bass play C D E F G A B C while you play the chords in the tab to hear how the major/minor/dim voicing sound.

Then let the bass play A B C D E F G A while you play the same chords.
The C chord will substitute for Am7
The Dm chord will substitute for Bm7b5
The Em chord will substitute for Cmaj7
The F chord will substitute for Dm7
The G chord will substitute for Em7
The Am chord will substitute for Fmaj7
The Bdim chord will substitute for G7
The C chord will substitute for Am7

Sounds completely different doesnt it?

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 12 March 2004 at 08:50 AM.]

------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

The "chromatic" strings do similar to what the black keys do for a piano player when playing in the Key of C.

In addition, their out of sequence position act as an aid in fast single string type of picking; while altenating the thumb and either the index or middle finger.

Probably NO player on earth has explored and discovered their awesome secrets more than Hal Rugg. If you have not heard it, try and get a copy of Loretta Lynn's recording of "One's on the Way". Hal's incredible kick-off and turnaround on this classic will tickle your patience and practice for many hours of trying to uncover his using the chromatic strings.

Hal uses these strings with various combinations of pedals and knee levers. He is truly a master in the use and getting every drop of their awesome value in the E9th tuning.

Others like Buddy Emmons' dropping of the 2nd string a whole tone; and in unison with the 5th string and A pedal; caused more than a few steel player's eyebrows to raise; when we pondered "how in this world did he do that?"

Buddy also uses an usual sliding sustain on the lower string as he reaches up and picks that F# string. He did this on a number of Ray Price classics. He still uses it and it is classic Buddy Emmons.

And appropriately called since HE is the one that came up with the "chromatic" strings.

Doug Jernigan uses these strings like crazy on songs like "Orange Blossom Special" and other fiddle tunes to get lightning fast stacatto type notes that exemplify his playing these tunes correctly.

Paul Franklin and his incredible "Pick blocking" ability affords these strings to be at their sharpest as Paul effortlessly uses them in fast micro-second blocked single note runs and/or licks.

So does Joe Wright. As well as many other greats.

Since Lloyd Green has never lowered his 4th string, he defies logic almost getting sounds; that unknowing players would swear he is using the lowered 4th string. When in reality he is using the 2nd string.

But just in a simple way, these strings provide a way to get that "passing note" melody withOUT having to move the bar. For example, you are playing at any given fret and you are on strings 4, 5 and 6 with A and B down and the melody calls for the 5th of the chord to be a quick b5 note and back; or you need a high 6th note and back.

Similarly, you can do the same with no pedals and also using various combinations of knee levers. In other words, those notes sit "in waiting" to be used sooooooooooooooooo many times in music.

Of course you can slide the bar or use the knee lever to get these notes, but they do NOT sound as good as having them there already. The secret is to move the bar up and uncover them, pick them and then just as fast slide the bar back as your ring finger mutes the string.

If you have not been doing this, you have missed ONE of the secrets of the E9th tuning.

Try it!

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 March 2004 at 09:14 AM.]

quote:

---

The "chromatic" strings do similar to what the black keys do for a piano player when playing in the Key of C.

---

Oh well.

The point was that these strings stay unused by most players until needed. True they ARE both in the key of E (or B).

However ONLY one of them is in the key of A or D, an neither is in the key of C#. And all 4 of these keys are rooted with given pedals and/or knee levers.

So they sit there covered up until a player needs them. Then they are uncovered only to find them covered up again when not needed. This was the "similar" analogy I was trying to make referencing the black keys while playing in the key of C on piano.

IE, it is as though the notes are not there, but oh how great when a passing note; or other need to use one or more of them arises in music.

quote:

---

However ONLY one of them is in the key of A or D, an neither is in the key of C#.

---

Just wanted to make sure you were awake; and ya didunt let me down.

Actually I posted that late and my eyes could not see a C# from a B squat.

But, they are still "similar" to the black keys on the piano. Now put that in your smipe and poke it!

carlo

Thankyou to all who are helping. Some really great and clear information.

Bob Porri

Key of C major
1__________________3__________
2____________3________________
3______________________3___3B_
4_______________3_____________
5_____3__3A___________________
6__3B_________________________
     
     C lydian scale

Many musicians would argue this as the more correct sounding major scale.

Correct sounding or not?
It makes sense to me as the starting point for transforming thru all the scales by only changing one note at a time.
Start with a C Lydian and "flat" the F#, B, E, A, D ,G and C one at a time and you have the B lydian as a new starting point.

B C - D - E F - G - A - B
- o - o - o - o o - o - o Lydian (starting point)
- o - o - o o - o - o - o Ionian
- o - o - o o - o - o o - Mixolydian
- o - o o - o - o - o o - Dorian
- o - o o - o - o o - o - Phrygian
- o o - o - o - o o - o - Aeolian
- o o - o - o o - o - o - Locrian
o - o - o - o o - o - o - Lydian (half step lower)
o = notes that are part of the scale.
The B C - D .... above is for visual reference.

Were you doubting the name of that scale?

The C lydian scale is when the C note is the fourth interval of the G major scale.

G major scale is G A B C D E F# G

C lydian is the same scale from c to C

C D E F# G A B C

The F# is considered to be less of a voice leading tone than the F note is when played over a C major chord. George Russell's book, "The Lydian Chromatic Concept" goes into more depth on why it should be considered more often than not.

The Eb and F# strings allows this scale to be easily adapted.

I love the sound of the F# over a C chord. To my ears, intervals like this can spice things up

Paul

...I've never really applied the Lydian scale in my playing, but just noodling around with it now, so much comes to mind that I can use it with..

...this place is great...like going to Home Depot to get a hammer, and coming home with a bunch of new ideas (and a truckload of material!)...

Paul Franklin-Glad to hear you testify! Am a George Russell devotee myself. (I'm quoted on the second or third page of his web site)

Paul, I received your E9th concepts video yesterday, watched it last nite. Many Many Thanks for explaining "counterpoint".

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 16 March 2004 at 10:02 AM.]

I'm an old Lydian Chomatic Concept refugee myself...that is before I gave up music completly and took up C&W (That's a joke BTW...I Say...a JOKE!!! ) Anyway, I always thought it was my own personal secret arcane
wisdom to draw from when I needed to sound original...I guess it's not so secret anymore. Here's a tip now that all you guys are gonna go running to find this magic book... Start in the middle of the book at the "Theoretical Foundation for the LCC".
Reading just about 5 pages changed my playing forever.

That scale Paul showed us has been in my bag for years.

It could also be used over a minor 7th chord, as a minor 7th (or dorian) scale, by playing it three frets above.

In other words, playing licks out of Paul's scale at fret 5 will work not only over D maj 7, but also over E 7 and B min 7.

Those would be (in my mind) the most important uses for it.

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 17 March 2004 at 06:15 PM.]