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Author
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Topic: Inventor All-Pull
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Tony Smart
Member From: Harlow. Essex. England
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posted 20 September 2004 12:35 PM
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Who invented the all-pull system?-Tony |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 20 September 2004 01:38 PM
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Multi-Kord ------------------
quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com [This message was edited by basilh on 22 September 2004 at 02:08 AM.]
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Gerald Pierce
Member From: Maydelle, Texas, USA
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posted 20 September 2004 02:28 PM
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I don't know who was the first, but my old Multi-Kord (patented by the Harlin Bros. in the mid-to-late forties) is an all-pull system.
Those changers are quite different from any "modern" all-pull system that I've ever seen or read about (except for the short-lived and very rare Fender PS-210...I think that's the model #). But, they're still all-pull changers...they raise or lower strings using a pulling motion.Off the subject, the Fender PS-210 changer still seems like a great idea to me, but I guess it's too costly to produce a system like that these days (either that, or patent rights prevent it from happening). Changing complete copedants would be a snap with this type system. I wonder who built the first all-pull (modern) system that operates by pulling on individual changer fingers with cables or rods, rather than pulling with cables/rods on a bar mounted behind the changer fingers that, in turn, pushes on the individual changer fingers selected for that pull (does this conversion of a pulling action into a pushing action make it an all-push system?........hmmm). I'm gonna' guess MSA, but it's just a guess, and I'm probably wrong. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 20 September 2004 03:46 PM
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I suppose the Harlin Bros. were among the first, (or maybe Ken Clark?), but there were many different types of "all-pull" systems. Some had cables, some had rods and yokes, some had just rods, and some were a combination of all of these. The first two that were really popular, though, were Fender (with the cables), and Sho~Bud (with just rods). |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 20 September 2004 04:31 PM
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I no longer have all the steel patent drawings, but I'd think that the first real "all pull" was the Fender-- which pulled on the individuual fingers rather than having the "bar" like the multi-chord.
The Fender PS-210 was designed by Gene Fields, and is a brilliant design. Sorry to say, Fender never figured out how to execute it correctly.JW |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 20 September 2004 08:18 PM
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Winnie-Thank you for your post. Gene Fields had a brilliant design in the Fender PS-210. It is too bad that Fender didn't follow through on it, as you say.
I played one a whole weekend that the Arizona Music store in Glendale Arizona kindly let me try out. The one I tried had 9 pedals that worked both necks by throwing a switch. Later they were going to add knee levers to make it 4 knees and 5 pedals. It played great and sounded great. Price at that time was $1500. A beautiful birdseye maple.Which was more than a PP Emmons D10 sold for.
The fantastic part I liked is you could change any pedal tuning without tools or getting under the guitar in less than one minute. No limitations.....al  ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 20 September 2004 08:43 PM
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The 1st Bigsby with pedals, Speedy's, Feb 1948 was an all pull, as were all of them. Paul had a small casting mounted on a separate bar below the finger to "break" it. Before that, the finger was springloaded and pulling on the opposite side of the lever would release the spring and lower the finger.[This message was edited by chas smith on 20 September 2004 at 08:43 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 20 September 2004 09:24 PM
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Chas, this Bigsby system was a "pull release" method with a turn around pivot. Not a true "no slack" all pull design. Multi Kord was the first of this modern all pull method. A true , "no slack" all pull changer. Bought by my uncle, Doug Seymour(on this forum).
Naturally, Bigsby was the king Pro unit of the day. Hard to dispute the greatest guitar brand of the era. Paul did it right.
But The Harlan Brothers did the first work on the design that is like what is going on today and called the "all-pull" changer. Zane Beck's was also a great "all-pull" but quite a bit different in the BMI guitars. It also works and sounds great. He was also a very great thinker in this area.
Bud Carter did an incredible refinment job on the "all-pull" system with the nylon tuners. Another great thinker!
How about Bud Carter for the steel hall of fame? Ever see this guy play? Devoted his entire life to steel guitar.
Multi Kord is the answer to the original question though. The first "three finger" no slack, all pull system. Just like today, just mounted and actuated differently at that time.
Don't you guys think there should be some mention of the Harlan Brothers in history, or the SGHOF? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 20 September 2004 at 09:27 PM.] |
Tony Smart
Member From: Harlow. Essex. England
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posted 21 September 2004 12:27 PM
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Thanks lads for all your info.
Has anyone got any photo's of a MultiKord, including underneath? It would be very interesting to see what you are all talking about.
Regards - Tony |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 21 September 2004 08:06 PM
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There is no "underneath". It's all in the keyhead area, routed into the solid body only. The changer is at the left end, sitting behind the guitar in the playing position, the Multi Kord keyhead is at the right end. The is a sort of bad idea because its hard to get the string taper as narrow as it should be at the changer end without making the changer quite small. This guitar has no string taper. The biggest advantage of having the changer at the right end is that with the strings farther apart, the changer can be made larger and stronger with standard string spacing.
A disadvantage is: the pickup can "hear" the changer working easier, a bad thing.
So ends "Multi-Kord 101". |
Gerald Pierce
Member From: Maydelle, Texas, USA
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posted 22 September 2004 12:43 AM
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Multi-Kord photos are here>
http://www.unclestick.com/multi-kord I was given this rough multi-kord a few months ago. I disassembled it, cleaned it up, and it plays nicely for what it is, in spite of being stored in an out-bulding for who knows how long. Maybe the photos will help explain the mechanism.
There is a two-piece changer finger for each string (or two individual fingers next to one another that rotate on a common shaft), and the screws in the bars across the top of the changer determine whether you raise or lower the string (depending on which finger piece the screw pushes against....either the raise or lower). The amount of the raise or lower is determined by how far down the screw pushes the finger. Simple, huh? From what I can tell by the few photos I've seen or it, the Fender PS-210 is a modified version of this type system. Imagine the changer turned down 90 degrees (therefore the cables (or rods) would run parallel to the body of the guitar and could be connected to cross bars like on modern guitars) and you've got the basic idea. I'm not a builder, so I may have mis-used a couple of terms in my description, but I think it might explain how it works. |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 22 September 2004 02:23 AM
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Gibson did it this way AFTER the threatened law suit by Multi-Kord in 1939-40
Gibson got around the Multi-Kord Patent by altering the way the changer "Flatened" the string(S). The Multi-Kord system was a "Split Finger" whereas the Gibson was like this below..... 
 But also an "All Pull Changer" ------------------
quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com [This message was edited by basilh on 22 September 2004 at 02:24 AM.]
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