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  The Blade (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   The Blade
Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 21 September 2004 05:05 AM     profile     
In Reno in the early 80's (I think) Buddy and Scotty came and put on a West Coast show featuring Buddy, Erine Hager, Bobby Black, Buzz Evans, JD, etc.

Buddy might have been playing the Blade. I walked up and "tried" to push the pedals with my hand, I almost couldn't. I thought wow why would he play a guitar that stiff.

During one oh his sets he had a problem getting a signal, 30 minutes later he found out that it was the neck seclector switch that had fallen down into the guitar. I thought why would he play a guitar that was so unreliable.

But then he played, and he played, and he played. I can not find enough words to describe how he played.

Just a couple of thoughts on my part. It was not the guitar in it's unstable condition it was the man. I would not have bought that guitar for any amount of money even though it was the blade. This is related to the Bobby and Buddy thread.

Larry Behm

Jim Cohen
Member

From: Philadelphia, PA

posted 21 September 2004 05:21 AM     profile     
Great story, Larry. But one question for you: would you buy it today?
Jerry Clardy
Member

From: El Paso, Texas, USA

posted 21 September 2004 08:59 AM     profile     
Buy The Blade? Let's see...a legendary instrument used by a legend. I believe I'd like a shot at it if I never played it at all. Utility aside, Buddy's guitars have intrinsic value just because they were his. e.g., look at the prices of Eric Clapton's guitars in auctions. Also, Johnny Cash's and Chet Atkins'. Why would this be different?
Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 21 September 2004 09:12 AM     profile     
Jerry, Buddy's fans number in the tens of thousands, while the others you mentioned (Clapton, Cash, and Atkins) number 'way up in the millions! That would be a reason that one of Buddy's guitars (or any steel guitar, for that matter) would probably never see a 6-digit selling price.

Big demand, not being "one-of-a-kind", is what makes big prices in the collectibles market.

Jerry Clardy
Member

From: El Paso, Texas, USA

posted 21 September 2004 09:23 AM     profile     
I don't know, Don. I think Buddy can break the tens of thousands mark. He's played in pop, rock, classical settings, as well as setting the example for country PSG as we know it and has done it for generations. I believe he is a recognized authority by many more than the country PSG players. I think he could arguably be one of the most influential musicians of our time as far as PSG goes. Who is more recognized? Are you just trying to get The Blade cheap?
Dave Robbins
Member

From: Nashville, Tnn. USA

posted 21 September 2004 09:54 AM     profile     
Boys, in the first place, Buddy could get tone out of a gourd.

Secondly, there probably isn't any guitar he couldn't play...but would he want to?

I don't think Buddy would play "any" guitar he could not get tone from and express himself musically the way he would want to.

Remember, this is a man who has the option of playing any guitar he wants due to who he is and his accomplishments. The guitar he plays is by choice.

Food for thought: If Buddy was playing it, there was a reason for it.
Think about it!

Now, this matter is over as far as I'm concerned.

Dave

Ron Steenwijk
Member

From: Greensburg,PA

posted 21 September 2004 09:59 AM     profile     
Dave.

I have got an almost done lefthanded steel.Let's give it a try.

Ron

Jeff Lampert
Member

From: queens, new york city

posted 21 September 2004 10:00 AM     profile     
There are HUGE orders of magnitude difference between fans of Clapton vs. fans of Emmons. Like Donny said, it's MILLIONS vs. thousands (at best). And because of that, the market for Clapton's guitars are extremely wealthy collectors, while the market for he Blade is not-wealthy steel-players. That's why Clapton's most famous guitars (black Strat, ES-335) recently sold at auction for close to a MILLION dollars apiece, while the Blade might bring $10,000, and even that is questionable.

------------------
Jeff's Jazz

Jerry Clardy
Member

From: El Paso, Texas, USA

posted 21 September 2004 10:19 AM     profile     
Jeff - My point is that Buddy's ownership and use of the guitar on meaningful sessions makes the guitar worth more. This is proven by saying this guitar would be worth more than one just like it that wasn't. I think you'll agree, as evidenced by your statement of ~10000, that the guitar is worth more just because Buddy owned it and used it on historical sessions. The amount as compared to a more popular legend is not important. I, for one, at an auction, would pay more for a guitar of Buddy's than any other steel player I can think of. Am I alone in this?
Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 21 September 2004 05:08 PM     profile     
Jim no I would not buy it, it is Buddy not the Blade that makes the difference. I had a PP that was 10 invoice numbers away from the Blade, I sold it. I had a friend that had a PP the he was told was once owned by Buddy, he sold it. I have another Rosewood PP now, older than the Blade, oh Buddy would sound just great on THIS one.

Mike Cass told Bob Bender not to sell this PP, he did, I am now the owner. I am done buying steels.

Larry Behm

[This message was edited by Larry Behm on 23 September 2004 at 10:58 PM.]

Damir Besic
Member

From: La Vergne,TN

posted 21 September 2004 06:00 PM     profile     
I think Buddy said himslef once that he always got the worst steels from Emmons company.The one they couldn`t sell.But I may be wrong...

Db

------------------

Jim Cohen
Member

From: Philadelphia, PA

posted 21 September 2004 06:16 PM     profile     
OK, Larry. At least you're consistent! LOL!
Ernie Renn
Member

From: Brainerd, Minnesota USA

posted 22 September 2004 06:46 AM     profile     

------------------
My best,
Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com

Larry Moore
Member

From: Hampton, Ga. USA

posted 22 September 2004 10:27 AM     profile     
What is the S/N # of the Blade?
Was it Black or Rosewood?

I have a Rosewood D-10 S/N 1153-D
( Not for Sale )

Larry

Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 22 September 2004 08:32 PM     profile     
I would expect the blade to have a decal not the plastic plate.

Larry Behm

Roger Rettig
Member

From: NAPLES, FL

posted 23 September 2004 07:25 AM     profile     
Now I AM confused! Which guitar is pictured on the Black Album's cover? That one does have a stick-on decal. I always assumed that this was the Blade.

I suppose it's possible that it was up-graded - the 'wood-grain' effect does look similar on the album to the picture that Ernie posted.

RR

Charles Curtis
Member

From: Bethesda, Maryland, USA

posted 23 September 2004 12:22 PM     profile     
Thanks Ernie.
rpetersen
Member

From: Tipton, Iowa

posted 23 September 2004 04:33 PM     profile     
I might be mistaken, but I thought the one Ernie is showing might be the guitar that Buddy told me he once sold and Peggy bought it back for him.

------------------
Ron Petersen &
The Keep'n Tyme Band
Mullen Universal 12 - 1975 Session 400


[This message was edited by rpetersen on 23 September 2004 at 04:34 PM.]

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 23 September 2004 05:06 PM     profile     
Could have just been a bad maintainance day before a long road trip.

And the switch was what made the pedal so stiff, sticking on something underneth.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 26 September 2004 at 01:31 PM.]

Buddy Emmons
Member

From: Hermitage, TN USA

posted 23 September 2004 07:52 PM     profile     
Roger, the Black album guitar (the Blade) and the guitar in the above picture are the same and it has a rosewood Formica finish. I’ve had it for thirty six years and it still honks. Time took its toll on the decal so in one of my weaker moments I mounted the plastic plate on it. I have since replaced it with a small white sticker that has a drawing of a razor blade.

I did sell it in California. I was playing bass for Roger Miller and thought I wouldn’t play steel any more. When I realized I had made a mistake Peggy called the man who purchased it and he was nice enough to let us buy it back. The day it was back home I gave the guitar to Peggy knowing she would never sell it. It worked and she was very good about letting me play it for the next fifteen years.

As for history, outside of Nashville, it has done its thing on recordings with Judy Collins, Ray Charles, John Phillips, John Sebastian, Henry Mancini, the Carpenters, and a host of other L.A. artists (even Tiny Tim) in the late sixties and early seventies. I wouldn’t be ashamed to take it anywhere.

[This message was edited by Buddy Emmons on 23 September 2004 at 07:53 PM.]

Roger Rettig
Member

From: NAPLES, FL

posted 23 September 2004 09:07 PM     profile     

Thanks, Buddy!

I'm happy to know that the Blade is right where it belongs....

RR

Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 23 September 2004 10:55 PM     profile     
Buddy the reason you have Black Bart and Brown Bart is to "save" the blade?

Have you ever owned another guitar that cuts like the Blade?

Larry Behm

Buddy Emmons
Member

From: Hermitage, TN USA

posted 24 September 2004 06:34 AM     profile     
Larry,
No, I’ve never thought of saving the Blade it in that way. It’s one of the very few things of sentimental value to me, and although Mike Cass cleaned it up for me, it would have meant as much and played as well had it stayed in its prior condition.

The Blade may have a slight edge over the Bart brothers sound wise, but there are the advantages and disadvantages of each that have to be weighed in choosing the best guitar for my use. With the exception of a few friends I record with I’m no longer in the session end of the business; but I still like to experiment with tunings and pedal changes, and that’s where the Legrandes get the nod.

My new JCH has a different E9 setup than I’ve ever used thanks to being able to change the all pull systems so easily. I just found a better choice of knee lever positions to make what I have work better, so I’ll have it back on the bench in the next few days.

Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 24 September 2004 09:02 AM     profile     
OK Buddy I will ask it before someone else does, WHAT NEW CHANGES AND POSITIONS. OK I said it. You are next.

Larry Behm

Larry Moore
Member

From: Hampton, Ga. USA

posted 24 September 2004 11:05 AM     profile     
Buddy ,
What is the S/N # of the Blade?
I have a 67 PP D-10 Rosewood #1153-D
Larry
Ernie Renn
Member

From: Brainerd, Minnesota USA

posted 24 September 2004 11:09 AM     profile     
The Blade serial number is 1136 D.

Great sounding guitar Peggy has there!

------------------
My best,
Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com

Bill Terry
Member

From: Bastrop, TX, USA

posted 24 September 2004 01:06 PM     profile     
I have a Black '67 D-10, SN = Blade + 4

#1140 D

Pretty good litter in '67 I'd say...

Buddy Emmons
Member

From: Hermitage, TN USA

posted 24 September 2004 02:51 PM     profile     
Larry,
Somehow I knew that question was coming. The decision making is still ongoing but the change I like most so far is having taken the low B to C# raise off my first pedal and putting it on one of the two extra left knee levers.
In the open position, Pedals A & B down with strings 4, 5, 6, and 10 is a 4 over 5 chord.
I lower the 10th string one tone, on my right knee right lever. Using it and the knee lever that lowers my Es gives me a 5 chord with a 4 chord root (strings 4, 5, 7, and 10).
Pedals A and B with the RKR is a four chord with strings 5, 6, 8, and 10.
Releasing pedal B in the last example resolves into a nice major 7th voicing.

That’s the basics for now but you might want to check in at a later time for the final setup. This quest has been going on for 50 years so don’t try to pin me down for a specific date.

Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 25 September 2004 02:02 AM     profile     
Steelers alway ask me why I change my tuning or my gear etc, I just point directly at YOU and tell them " if Buddy is still searching then why not the rest of us also". Who says you must live with something forever. What is the magic in that?

Thanks for the update.

Larry Behm

Darvin Willhoite
Member

From: Leander, Tx. USA

posted 25 September 2004 06:20 AM     profile     
Then on the other hand, Lloyd Green found his sound and setup a long time ago, and has been quite successful with it.

------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording


Larry Behm
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon

posted 25 September 2004 08:26 AM     profile     
Some care to walk, some want to fly. Both get there, both are happy upon their arrival, I am cool with this.

For me it keeps my creative jucies flowing, even though anyone in the crowd may not hear the difference between an augmolished and a dimented chord let alone a suspendered or a miner one.

Larry Behm

Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 25 September 2004 12:13 PM     profile     
I'm right proud of these babies, The Black is a '66 bolt-on & Rosie is a '71.

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 25 September 2004 at 12:16 PM.]

Frank Freniere
Member

From: Palos Park IL

posted 25 September 2004 01:29 PM     profile     
"I was playing bass for Roger Miller and thought I wouldn’t play steel any more."

Think about that...

[This message was edited by Frank Freniere on 25 September 2004 at 01:35 PM.]

Drew Howard
Member

From: Mason, MI, U.S.A.

posted 25 September 2004 02:07 PM     profile     
I’m trying to wrap my feeble brain around Mr. Emmon’s new E9 pulls that he has shared with us. I’m making some assumptions on the copeedent chart. Please proof…

quote:
The decision making is still ongoing but the change I like most so far is having taken the low B to C# raise off my first pedal and putting it on one of the two extra left knee levers.
In the open position, Pedals A & B down with strings 4, 5, 6, and 10 is a 4 over 5 chord. (see tab)
I lower the 10th string one tone, on my right knee right lever. Using it and the knee lever that lowers my Es gives me a 5 chord with a 4 chord root (strings 4, 5, 7, and 10).
Pedals A and B with the RKR is a four chord with strings 5, 6, 8, and 10.
Releasing pedal B in the last example resolves into a nice major 7th voicing.


< < ^ > A B C < >
F#
Eb
G#
E Eb
B C#
G#
F#
E Eb
D
B C# A


4/5 5/4 4 maj7
1________________________________
2________________________________
3________________________________
4_____0_______0L_________________
5_____0A______0_____0A_____0A____
6_____0B____________0B_____0_____
7_____________0__________________
8___________________0______0_____
9________________________________
10____0_______0LL___0LL____0LL____


Clyde Lane
Member

From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

posted 25 September 2004 03:06 PM     profile     
I wonder what the Bass Guitar that Buddy played is worth?
Dave Robbins
Member

From: Nashville, Tnn. USA

posted 25 September 2004 10:18 PM     profile     
Clyde, it depends on how many records/shows he played it on.
Buddy has a "Suburban" too but that doesn't mean I want to buy it.

Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Robbins on 25 September 2004 at 10:20 PM.]

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 26 September 2004 02:01 PM     profile     
quote:
Some care to walk, some want to fly.

I nice turn of phrase, but I find nothing in Lloyd's playing pedestrian.

What I do see is thet these two masters resolve their lines in very different harmonic ways.

Lloyd is general resolving from with-in the frame work of the chords, if not excluseivly, generally.

While Buddy is much more often resolving from the outer tensions to the inner consonances.

Hence he is more often searching for new ways to approach this, out to in, path. Whether on E9 or C6.

While Lloyd has been plumbing an inside course that is filled with a naturally closer logic, hence he has been happy with his set up for a long, long time.

He already had enough of the tensions he desires to be fullfilled.

So they both fly for me, just on different trajectories!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 26 September 2004 at 02:03 PM.]

David Higginbotham
Member

From: Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA

posted 26 September 2004 05:57 PM     profile     
I guess we will have to be specific defining the Emmons copedant as "Old Emmons" or "New Emmons" instead of just "Emmons" Pretty neat!
Dave
Jim Marconi
Member

From: Richmond IL. / Summerland Key Fl. USA

posted 27 September 2004 07:02 PM     profile     
Hi Buddy..Do you still own or play your Emmons LeGrandes...Thank You
Kind Regards
Jim
Buddy Emmons
Member

From: Hermitage, TN USA

posted 28 September 2004 09:52 AM     profile     
Jim,
I still have both Legrandes but may sell one of them. I have someone ready to buy it for $2,500.00 but I dropped a pair of scissors on the pedal bar this morning and put a dent in it. That should be worth a couple hundred more dollars in the asking price.

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