Where did the time go that musicians tuned to each other, rather than an electronic tuner?

www.genejones.com

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There is also a fifteen second maximum rule for songs to start once the last one is finished.

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Conversations with people at the front tables are fine, as long as they understand that a round for the band is the expected protocol.

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Bobby, how much protocoling can you handle before you fall off your chair?

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Just be patient with some of us "over the hill" players who were around before many of these items like tuners were invented.

Tuning by ear is great, but there are times where it's a luxury circumstances don't allow you...

I tuned my guitar usually at home using my old Conn Strobo tuner and before I got that I used my Guitar pitchpipe, just for the E.

Then tuned by ear as we had done all those early years. The reason why I got the E , was when I got to the job, I gave the tuner to the guitar player and said tune to that E, Then we'll be starting in the right place at least. I always tuned top down too.
I always tuned everything at home , before I left for the job.
When I got on the bandstand, I never tuned a pedal or anything, usually it worked out pretty good.
I also took my guitar without the case all setup ready to go. No waste of time....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

I'm 60 years old now and I can recall when all the men that would could over to practice in the band that my daddy play in.
There was know such thing as a plastic tuner..Kevin Hatton I really injoyed your input,and the control you have put up with us old seniors ha ha anyway getting back to that plastic tunner the thought come on me.
Daniel 12-4 But thou, o Daniel,shut up the words, and seal the book,even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased BJ

True white noise, or not, I mentioned those gigs because there is never any silence before the show. I learned to focus to the point of mentally blocking out any noise or pitch besides the sound of the steel.

In Vegas with the Statesiders there were always four fiddles, a guitar or two, tuning at the same time behind the curtain with the insistance of the casino that nothing be heard before the show. Yet, we all managed to get in tune without relying on tuners. I believe only Brian Sterling used a tuner back then.

Sometimes before we take the song, seconds away from the red light, the producer asks everybody to check their tuning. They never isolate an individual and slowing down this red light process is not a good thing. With the headphones cranked, the amps are isolated beyond the ear shot, I quickly have to rely on the ability I learned from the road to block out everything beyond my instrument. Blocking out the other instruments through headphones is really the most difficult for me while tuning at the same time without having to reassemble the cue box. My past experiences with Tillis are invaluable here.

The loudest disturbance I ever heard was in Madrid, 80,000 folks in a stadium and I was tuning so soft nobody could hear the instrument but me.

Gene and all of the guys from before the tuner days survived the same way. Every musician could benefit from tuning the way an orchestra tunes while the audience is being seated. They tune by ear. Develop your ears to the point you don't need silence to hear your instruments vibrations.

I'm an advocate for the past ways of both learning to play and tuning by ear. These days everyone wants to find something that makes their searching easier. For all the examples I listed above, I know there are electronic gadgets that help eliminate the problems I have faced and will face over the years. I'm not convinced they would benefit me in the long run, because I believe a musician can lose his/her ability to distinguish pitch without constant training. If that happens, I can't play in tune. No tuner solves that problem.

Tuning by ear helps train my ears on a daily basis.

Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 14 November 2004 at 10:16 AM.]

The 'worst' tuning problem I encounter regularly is with the lead guitar player who is using super light guitar strings and bending them so much that after a few tunes his guitar is way out, however, the singer is keying off of this guitar so the rest of the band sounds out of tune.

Yes, you must train your ear to hear whether you are in tune or not, PLUS be able to tell another bandmember diplomatically that he or she is out of tune. (You should be very, very careful of this depending on how much drinking, drugs or guns are on the bandstand!)

Thanx,
Jim

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I'm not convinced they would benefit me in the long run, because I believe a musician can lose his/her ability to distinguish pitch without constant training. If that happens, I can't play in tune. No tuner solves that problem.

Tuning by ear helps train my ears on a daily basis.

Paul

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Not trying to tune by ear in bad situations can never produce any hearing skills.

Nobody said playing this thing live was going to be easy.

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.. I tuned by ear after getting the E and C notes from the tuner.

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While I'm clearly not in the class of Mr. Franklin... that's EXACTLY how I tune. I have run into places where it was difficult, but to me the guitar always sounds more 'in tune' when tuned by ear. Tuning over the babble seems to get easier as time goes on.. and I think I play in tune better now than ever.

That said, once in a while I still get in a place where I just can't hear, then I resort to the tuner, and quietly 'tweak' to ear during the set. I think unobtrusively tweaking the tuning during the set is an art in itself.

Somehow reading the 'ear tuned' intervals off a tuner and replicating those settings doesn't seem to work for me. I always end up touching up something or other til it sounds right.

[This message was edited by Bill Terry on 15 November 2004 at 08:04 AM.]

I feel somewhat vindicated.

Also, I feel Bob's comment about problems tuning with a "mixed" method (some JI and some ET) is not wholly correct. First, we must realize that any method will have some notes or intervals sounding "out". That's a fact, and nothing can change it! Second, remember that part of the necessary skill of playing this instrument is what I call "playing it in tune", (making necessary adjustments while you're playing). Most all of the pros have this skill. If you can't develop it, you'll never be a "top-ranked" player. Pros are always making minute adjustments to their bar so that it sounds good (in tune) while they're playing.

One of the things that still fascinates me is listening to players of 40-50 years ago, when electronic tuners were non-existent and steels were far inferior, mechanically, to those we have today. Those guys still sounded marvelous! Yeah, they had "cabinet drop", "axle flex", and some didn't even have roller bridges and nuts on their steels, but...

...they still managed to play in tune!

Bar pressure affects bar placement.

The more downforce you use, the sharper your notes will be, and you simply have to compensate, there's no getting around it. Tuners, presets, and charts will only get you a starting point, in the ball park, as it were. They should be a reference only! The rest (which is what really counts), is up to the player alone. You have to please the other players and the audience. The tuner is really an adjunct.

Race car tuners use a timing light (their "tuning tool") for a starting point. And if the engine doesn't run right at maximum potential, they use their ears, and the their "seat of the pants" to get the most out of the engine. If the engine pings, they retard the timing...regardless of what the stupid timing light says! Tuning a steel takes a similar approach.

Look at it this way. If you were playing in a 6-piece band, and everyone else said.."you're playing flat", and you sounded like you were playing flat, wouldn't you change your tuning/playing to try to correct the problem? Or, would you just say..."This tuner says I'm perfect!", and ignore the "flat" sound, and everyone else's opinion?

The number one reason amateur steelers usually lose their job in a band is so the band can book for a lower price. That's simple economics.

The number two reason amateur steelers usually lose their job in a band is that they just can't consistently play in tune.

Nothing is more important than playing and sounding in tune. And for that, you need a good ear. Vocal stylists can sing off key and get away with it. Not so for pedal steel players!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 15 November 2004 at 03:56 PM.]